410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

After a trip to Shelter Island, LI from Niantic, I noticed something amiss. Turns out I had both shafts wrapped with what appears to be lobster pot line. While there are lots of pots around Plum Gut and on the way, we keep meticulous look out to avoid them so not sure how it happened but it did. Now thinking of getting line cutters. Anyone have suggestions pro/con? Thinking of the Shaft Shark type. Crazy expensive but maybe worth the piece of mind?
 
Risingson said:
View attachment 87295 View attachment 87294
When I called Bennett tabs they recommended I put fins on the sides of may trim tabs. They really help keep the bow down. Since you can't put longer tabs on the tunnel Drive Bennett sent the fins for free.
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What kind of performance gains did you get from adding the fins? Speed, RPM, Fuel Burn, etc.?
 
dtfeld said:
410 Running Angle

Here is a section of video a buddy shot of us running down the lake. Likely about 2350 RPM, 20-21 kts with full down tabs. My tabs are stock (not drop fins), but those are on the list for a winter upgrade (now delayed). I think she rides nicely!!!! --->


.



Full video of life on Lake lanier here!! --->


Edit...Youtube flagged music as copyright infringement. Re-posted in silent mode...
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David,
Best boat porn I’ve seen in a while. Your boat looks fantastic going through the water.
I see that your platform squats down too.
I’ve had a set of the drop fins sitting in my garage for almost two years trying to decide whether or not to add them on.
The Bennett guy advised me to get real numbers from another owner with the exact same hull/power combo before installing them.
The issue was the shape of the transom on the 410, the shape and design of the factory tabs with one side of each bent down.
He told me they were special ordered like that from the Sea Ray engineers and he could not guarantee that they wouldn’t have a negative impact on performance.
BTW: I’ve found that I get better performance (speed) at cruising RPM by using less tab and leaving the bow riding higher than I would like.
I usually bring her up to close to cruising RPM with no tab, then just tap the tab buttons a bit until she gets her groove.
I’ve long suspected that the key to better performance on my boat isn’t necessarily getting the bow down as much as it is getting the stern up and having less boat in the water.
 
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According to the Bennett website, the drop fins are equivalent to adding 6” more tab width. For $30 I’m going to put a pair on. I run full tab down to get that attitude, and I bet I’d get some speed using less tab. Tabs produce lift and lift causes drag. The problem is visibility over the bow.

I’ll have to redo some speed burn numbers at different tab setting, but if I recall correctly, the little testing I did with less tab, didn’t produce big gains in speed/efficiency, but I lost a lot of visibility over the bow.

I still love this boat and it turns heads were ever we go. Runs great. Anybody considering a 40ish Sea Ray should look at this model.
 
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carterchapman said:
Darn, you sound like a pilot!!!
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I used to be one. Maybe again someday soon!
  • Goose : [after Goose and Maverick get chewed out by Viper] Thanks, Mav, that was really great. Oh, shit! Maybe I should become a truck driver. Mav, do you remember the number of that truck driving school that was on TV the other night, Truck America or something like that?
 
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dtfeld said:
I used to be one. Maybe again someday soon!
  • Goose : [after Goose and Maverick get chewed out by Viper] Thanks, Mav, that was really great. Oh, shit! Maybe I should become a truck driver. Mav, do you remember the number of that truck driving school that was on TV the other night, Truck America or something like that?
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1-800- truckmasters!!!
 
I was thinking Walmart greeter as a backup
 
carterchapman said:
You are not in the possible furlough group I hope...
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Carter, no for the time being. Who knows though. It’s going to be an interesting ride for the next year or two. I was one of the roughly 1000 downgrades.

In January was Awarded 73N A with July training, but now sliding over to the right seat. Easy come easy go. No training dates posted.

So we’ll go Boating!!
 
dtfeld said:
Tabs produce lift and lift causes drag.
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But so does a hull plowing water in a bow up position and not at an optimum plain angle or prop angle. Net-net the right tab down position the less overall drag and best prop efficiency. In my bubba-tub 1800 RPM no tabs, no current, no wind, 66% load - 23.1 MPH GPS; 1800 RPM, 20 % tabs down, no current, no wind, 66% load - 23.6 MPH GPS....
 
Boulz said:
After a trip to Shelter Island, LI from Niantic, I noticed something amiss. Turns out I had both shafts wrapped with what appears to be lobster pot line. While there are lots of pots around Plum Gut and on the way, we keep meticulous look out to avoid them so not sure how it happened but it did. Now thinking of getting line cutters. Anyone have suggestions pro/con? Thinking of the Shaft Shark type. Crazy expensive but maybe worth the piece of mind?
Click to expand...
www.spursmarine.com really well made. I had a set on my last boat that came with it. Not cheap but excellent product. Even have anodes on them. Used by our Navy and Coast Guard.
 
ttmott said:
But so does a hull plowing water in a bow up position and not at an optimum plain angle or prop angle. Net-net the right tab down position the less overall drag and best prop efficiency. In my bubba-tub 1800 RPM no tabs, no current, no wind, 66% load - 23.1 MPH GPS; 1800 RPM, 20 % tabs down, no current, no wind, 66% load - 23.6 MPH GPS....
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I'll have to do some testing...see what I find.
 
Hoping someone has an idea, or has dealt with this in the past.

See pic:

The issue is not the outside of the strainer as you can see in the attached pic. Rather there is a ton of hard growth inside the pictured strainer greatly reducing water flow. When I clear the strainer holes with a small screw driver, I can feel (probably oyster shells) on the inside of this strainer. Unfortunately, unlike the removable strainer screens on my engine intake strainers under the boat, the AC strainer does not have a removable screen. It is a one piece strainer that is spun on to the thru hull in the engine room. To remove the AC strainer, the boat needs to be hauled and removed in the ER, something I am trying to avoid.

i was able to clear some of the growth by inserting a long screw driver thru the 1/2” thru hull reaching the strainer and spinning the screwdriver. But, I am only clearing a small portion of the strainer directly below the thru hull.

My question, thoughts. Is there a drill attachment that would fit down the 1/2” thru hull and then open to clean out a good portion of the strainer? Maybe something with wires hanging from the bit head that would open when spinning, but fit thru 1/2” thru hull. I am just spitballing here - looking for Ideas.

Lastly, I can’t pour muriatic acid/barnacle Buster down the thru hull to reach the strainer, because the sea water rushes in by design (primes AC to pump) when the ball valve is opened. However, assuming I am able to cover the strainer (not sure how) under the boat so no water comes up the thru hole, and I poured acid down the thru hull, will it get to the strainer. Is the acid heavier than salt water?

0HgnTRoFp_zC1rXNEaVsUmi6w


Sorry for the long post, but appreciate the help. Jeff
 
Dani-Lu said:
Hoping someone has an idea, or has dealt with this in the past.

See pic:

The issue is not the outside of the strainer as you can see in the attached pic. Rather there is a ton of hard growth inside the pictured strainer greatly reducing water flow. When I clear the strainer holes with a small screw driver, I can feel (probably oyster shells) on the inside of this strainer. Unfortunately, unlike the removable strainer screens on my engine intake strainers under the boat, the AC strainer does not have a removable screen. It is a one piece strainer that is spun on to the thru hull in the engine room. To remove the AC strainer, the boat needs to be hauled and removed in the ER, something I am trying to avoid.

i was able to clear some of the growth by inserting a long screw driver thru the 1/2” thru hull reaching the strainer and spinning the screwdriver. But, I am only clearing a small portion of the strainer directly below the thru hull.

My question, thoughts. Is there a drill attachment that would fit down the 1/2” thru hull and then open to clean out a good portion of the strainer? Maybe something with wires hanging from the bit head that would open when spinning, but fit thru 1/2” thru hull. I am just spitballing here - looking for Ideas.

Lastly, I can’t pour muriatic acid/barnacle Buster down the thru hull to reach the strainer, because the sea water rushes in by design (primes AC to pump) when the ball valve is opened. However, assuming I am able to cover the strainer (not sure how) under the boat so no water comes up the thru hole, and I poured acid down the thru hull, will it get to the strainer. Is the acid heavier than salt water?

0HgnTRoFp_zC1rXNEaVsUmi6w


Sorry for the long post, but appreciate the help. Jeff
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Jeff, just a question as I can't seem to see your image, but if you shut off the sea-cock/ball valve you shouldn't have any water coming into the strainer from the thru hull. Can you not shut off the sea-cock and remove and clean or remove and replace the AC strainers? The plastic ones with removable baskets are dirt cheap and even the groco ones aren't too bad. If I was in salt water I would have a flush capable one installed asap. Not a bad DIY. Mine has a garden hose adapter fitted to the strainer by a PO that makes flushing really easy.
 
Cocktail time, I think he is talking about the brass strainer that is on the outside of the boat hull , that is screwed on over the thru-hull.

In any case, if he extends the hose from the thru-hull straight up to a level higher than the water line outside water will stop coming in and he can now start filling hose with muriatic .

Also if he can slip a couple pieces of copper tubing down in there near the strainer, that will leach out and the crustaceons do not like that enviroment.
 
Sublimetime said:
Cocktail time, I think he is talking about the brass strainer that is on the outside of the boat hull , that is screwed on over the thru-hull.

In any case, if he extends the hose from the thru-hull straight up to a level higher than the water line outside water will stop coming in and he can now start filling hose with muriatic .

Also if he can slip a couple pieces of copper tubing down in there near the strainer, that will leach out and the crustaceons do not like that enviroment.
Click to expand...

sublimetime, you are spot on - Thats the issue. With respect to your direction to attach a longer hose, will the acid sink to the strainer? Is it heavier than salt water? The thru hull is 1/2” - Are you saying to cut small pieces of copper pipe and drop them into strainer? Would pieces of copper wire serve the same purpose?

thanks for your response.
 
dtfeld said:
According to the Bennett website, the drop fins are equivalent to adding 6” more tab width. For $30 I’m going to put a pair on. I run full tab down to get that attitude, and I bet I’d get some speed using less tab. Tabs produce lift and lift causes drag. The problem is visibility over the bow.

I’ll have to redo some speed burn numbers at different tab setting, but if I recall correctly, the little testing I did with less tab, didn’t produce big gains in speed/efficiency, but I lost a lot of visibility over the bow.

I still love this boat and it turns heads were ever we go. Runs great. Anybody considering a 40ish Sea Ray should look at this model.
Click to expand...

Try running with less tab.
Bring her up to about 2300 with no tab at all, then slowly add tab a little at a time. Just short taps on the down buttons.
When I do that on my boat it usually increases to about 2500 where she finds her groove. Then I ease the throttles back to 2400, and she purrs along nicely.
The bow is high in that sweet spot for sure, but adding more tab at that point will stuff my bow and reduces speed a bit.
I honestly believe that lifting the stern a bit more out of the water (not putting more bow in the water) should unlock another couple of knots at 2400 RPM.
When I look back at my wake and see how low my stern is in the water I feel like I’m missing out on a little performance.
Watching that great video of your boat going through the water reinforces that feeling.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the Drop Fins will nicely raise the stern for you. Hoping to get real world comparison numbers from a diesel 410 like the Bennett guy advised when I spoke to him.
 
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