Sea Ray 380 purchase

Second survey said stress fatigue no sign at all of impact
 
Second survey said stress fatigue no sign at all of impact
Thanks for info. We used to coat the interior of oil storage tanks with fiberglass. Tanks settle and move; but we never saw the coating crack and leak. Did the surveyor have any idea how the area could have fatigued. Fatigue to me would indicate movement of the hull to fail. Sort of like when you bend a paper clip many times and it breaks. You may want to suggest to the owner he contact SeaRay and report a fatigue failure. It could have been the result of a fabrication error and perhaps SeaRay might be interested. If it is a fabrication error a recall may be in order before a boat sinks.
 
Thanks for info. We used to coat the interior of oil storage tanks with fiberglass. Tanks settle and move; but we never saw the coating crack and leak. Did the surveyor have any idea how the area could have fatigued. Fatigue to me would indicate movement of the hull to fail. Sort of like when you bend a paper clip many times and it breaks. You may want to suggest to the owner he contact SeaRay and report a fatigue failure. It could have been the result of a fabrication error and perhaps SeaRay might be interested. If it is a fabrication error a recall may be in order before a boat sinks.
Apparently known issue. Due to proximity of the shafts to the tunnel and years of vibration and any period of miss alignment coupled with water pressure within the tunnel can cause this. It’s a weak point where the tunnel which kind of looks like and upside down boot with a tube out the tube joins the hull.
 
This is generally not a structural repair, however, Sea Ray has repaired a number of them simply because it is a sloppy manufacturing technique on some Merritt Island built 380DA's.

When the boats come out of the mold, the hull has marks on it to identify where the shaft log should be mounted. Some boats had oversized holes sawed for the shaft log. The usual method of mounting the shaft log was to fiberglass it into the hull then mix up resin/gelcoat and glass micro-balloons sometimes called Cabosil into a putty then fair the interior of the hull where the shaft log was positioned. Water can eventually work its way past the Cabosil/fiberglass and form a leak. It isn't a structural defect and the boat is still safe but needs to be repaired to avoid water under pressure from causing a delamitation in the hull lay-up. It is usually a repair that takes a day in the boat yard and is a quick and easy one for a competent fiberglass guy to do because only the Cabosil area has to be ground out and repaired with glass cloth and resin.

It isn't engine vibration because the shaft log is separated from engine vibration by the engine coupler on the fwd end and the cutlass bearing/strut on the aft end and no hull damage has ever been seen when this defect was repaired. It seems more northern boats are affected than southern ones so Sea Ray hypothesized that temperature differential is the primary cause.

Other than the comment that the engines need to be pulled to get to the repair, this one should be an easy fix. I'd bet that once the Cabosil is ground away, that the fiberglass technician finds that the fiberglass shaft tube is solid and firmly affixed and the leak is just at the Cabosil patch.
 
This is generally not a structural repair, however, Sea Ray has repaired a number of them simply because it is a sloppy manufacturing technique on some Merritt Island built 380DA's.

When the boats come out of the mold, the hull has marks on it to identify where the shaft log should be mounted. Some boats had oversized holes sawed for the shaft log. The usual method of mounting the shaft log was to fiberglass it into the hull then mix up resin/gelcoat and glass micro-balloons sometimes called Cabosil into a putty then fair the interior of the hull where the shaft log was positioned. Water can eventually work its way past the Cabosil/fiberglass and form a leak. It isn't a structural defect and the boat is still safe but needs to be repaired to avoid water under pressure from causing a delamitation in the hull lay-up. It is usually a repair that takes a day in the boat yard and is a quick and easy one for a competent fiberglass guy to do because only the Cabosil area has to be ground out and repaired with glass cloth and resin.

It isn't engine vibration because the shaft log is separated from engine vibration by the engine coupler on the fwd end and the cutlass bearing/strut on the aft end and no hull damage has ever been seen when this defect was repaired. It seems more northern boats are affected than southern ones so Sea Ray hypothesized that temperature differential is the primary cause.

Other than the comment that the engines need to be pulled to get to the repair, this one should be an easy fix. I'd bet that once the Cabosil is ground away, that the fiberglass technician finds that the fiberglass shaft tube is solid and firmly affixed and the leak is just at the Cabosil patch.

Thanks for the great write up, unfortunately as you can see from the photos the shaft log is actually spitting from the hull (just in bottom right of photo), it has actually cracked 3/4 the way round and the underside of the hull has matching cracks. There are spider cracks around the Port side hull also. I think you have nailed the leak, the bigger issue is the cracking around the log where it meets the Hull. It truly looks like its trying to break from the Hull.
 

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cracks show better in the video
 
That leak is exactly what I was describing.

When the boat is assembled, the fiberglass shaft tube is inserted thru the hole in the bottom of the boat then fiberglassed into place. Next, a putty of gelcoat and ground up fiberglass (micro-balloons) and resin is mixed up and used to fair or smooth the area. This boat had a large area to fill between the hull and the shaft tube. Since the coefficient of expansion of fiberglass and resin and the Cabosil moisture is different, one grew larger than the other during the seasonal temperature change and the crack formed between the solid hull and the Cabosil around the shaft tube.

While it may look like the bot is coming apart, it is not. There is just crack in the Cabosil patch letting seawater leak in.
 
That leak is exactly what I was describing.

When the boat is assembled, the fiberglass shaft tube is inserted thru the hole in the bottom of the boat then fiberglassed into place. Next, a putty of gelcoat and ground up fiberglass (micro-balloons) and resin is mixed up and used to fair or smooth the area. This boat had a large area to fill between the hull and the shaft tube. Since the coefficient of expansion of fiberglass and resin and the Cabosil moisture is different, one grew larger than the other during the seasonal temperature change and the crack formed between the solid hull and the Cabosil around the shaft tube.

While it may look like the bot is coming apart, it is not. There is just crack in the Cabosil patch letting seawater leak in.
But what about the cracks in the underside of the hull all around where the fitting? You can flex the bottom around that area. the water meter read 5%
 
You just got a golden nugget of information! Work the price, fix the boat, enjoy life! Or, don’t. A boat is in your future somewhere.
 
Second survey said stress fatigue no sign at all of impact
Hardly - there is no "stress" in these locations. Simply a case of poor workmanship as Mr. Webster says. "Pull the engine" - hardly again; if you can touch the area then it can be repaired in place. The shaft and shaft seal probably doesn't even need to be removed.
If this is the only issue with the boat it's a gem.....
This is probably a $2000 effort with the boat out of the water. Grind and cut the gelcoat and faring to the FRP and remove any mat that is not correct on the inside and remove the faring from the outside. Layup new glass then fair and re-gelcoat and bottom paint..... It's even conceivable it could be corrected from the bottom side of the boat....
Just a note on post survey negotiations - For repairs like this it's always best (from my experience) to get a reduction in price and have the work done under your watch rather than have the current owner get the work done. The quality is under your control.....
 
great info on this thread,
when you saY $2K, is that including pulling the engines? or doing the repair from underneath only?

Hardly - there is no "stress" in these locations. Simply a case of poor workmanship as Mr. Webster says. "Pull the engine" - hardly again; if you can touch the area then it can be repaired in place. The shaft and shaft seal probably doesn't even need to be removed.
If this is the only issue with the boat it's a gem.....
This is probably a $2000 effort with the boat out of the water. Grind and cut the gelcoat and faring to the FRP and remove any mat that is not correct on the inside and remove the faring from the outside. Layup new glass then fair and re-gelcoat and bottom paint..... It's even conceivable it could be corrected from the bottom side of the boat....
Just a note on post survey negotiations - For repairs like this it's always best (from my experience) to get a reduction in price and have the work done under your watch rather than have the current owner get the work done. The quality is under your control.....
 
great info on this thread,
when you saY $2K, is that including pulling the engines? or doing the repair from underneath only?
The tube is structurally attached and sealed from water leakage (FRP fabric and resin) to the hull from inside only. The outside and the gap between the hull and the tube is filled with a fairing compound. Execute what Mr. Webster states and all will be good.
I know this as the faring on the bottom of the hull on both of my boats was cracking and falling out. I had it cut out and replaced. No further issues.

Pulling engines would be additional cost.
 
The tube is structurally attached and sealed from water leakage (FRP fabric and resin) to the hull from inside only. The outside and the gap between the hull and the tube is filled with a fairing compound. Execute what Mr. Webster states and all will be good.
I know this as the faring on the bottom of the hull on both of my boats was cracking and falling out. I had it cut out and replaced. No further issues.

Pulling engines would be additional cost.
My only concern is the crack around the pod on the inside. As you say this is where it attaches to the boat and it’s cracked 3/4 way round internally under the engine.
 
My only concern is the crack around the pod on the inside. As you say this is where it attaches to the boat and it’s cracked 3/4 way round internally under the engine.
I would suspect that is a crack in the gelcoat only and not structural. From the video definitely not a deal killer.
Regardless, hardly catastrophic but requires your attention.
 
I tried to explain in 2 different posts that the area that is cracking is a poorly applied cosmetic patch to fair (smooth) the transition between the shaft tube and the fiberglass applied to fasten the shaft tube to the hull when it is installed. It is very much like a rust repair on a car fender where a welded on repair panel is applied to replace the rusty spot and is then smoothed over by too thick a coat of body filler that later cracks. The bond isn't structural and neither is the Cabosil.

The correct repair procedure for the shaft tube cracking is to grind the Cabosil (putty) away and down to where you can see the attachment between the shaft tube and the hull (fiberglass to fiberglass). Then, use resin and fiberglass cloth to properly bond the shaft tube to the hull and to fair the area with cloth and resin.

I've seen several 380DA's with this issue repaired by our dealer and the cost ran between $1500 and $2200, and....you could hear a lot of 4 letter words emanating from the glass shop, but no engines were removed. In every case, the shaft tube to hull joint on the exterior of the hull was ground away and the fiberglass cloth/resin repair was done on both the interior and exterior of the hull. Also, just to be clear, I keep my boat at a large Sea Ray dealer's owned marina on the Gulf Coast. There is a fiberglass shop large enough to get a 45ft boat inside but due to the nature of the chemicals involved, they do not do painting in the fiberglass shop. Repairs like. this are done in the glass shop then the boat is moved to the boat yard for any painting or paint touch needed. The cost of the shaft tube repair above is for fiberglass work only........there would be another $2-$500 in cost for repainting a portion antifouling bottom paint.
 
Your input is invaluable, as a novice just getting our heads around it all. we are waiting to hear from glas shop if can be left for winter, they just looked at it, waiting for report.
 
Ok so final update. Firstly I wish to thank everyone’s input, it’s these kind of threads that become an invaluable source of information for many people.

we had a well known and respected glass fibre repair specialist take a look today. Everything is as reported in this thread.

The cracks internally are not just superficial gel coat sadly but are cracks Into the structure that bonds the prop tunnel. The engine has to come out and the internal sector reworked including the external on both sides.

The seller is taking on full cost and will be finished in next 14 days.

thanks everyone.
 
i am glad this is gonna work out, it sounds like a great boat.
When i bought my 380, everything was great til the compression test. 2 cyl were outside of the specs, compared to the rest. The owner made the full repairs including a couple other items. Been happy every since.
good luck
Ok so final update. Firstly I wish to thank everyone’s input, it’s these kind of threads that become an invaluable source of information for many people.

we had a well known and respected glass fibre repair specialist take a look today. Everything is as reported in this thread.

The cracks internally are not just superficial gel coat sadly but are cracks Into the structure that bonds the prop tunnel. The engine has to come out and the internal sector reworked including the external on both sides.

The seller is taking on full cost and will be finished in next 14 days.

thanks everyone.
 
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We put a hole in our boat once. To fiberglass you must lay new material against a hard surface. A crack through the hull once cleaned up will be a hole once it is ground back to sound material. Unless you can get access to both sides with the engine in place, you in my opinion need to pull the engine to build a solid surface to work against. Perhaps a there is a way to place backing without removing the engine a good fiberglass shop would know what is required. A bad patch in rough water might fail.
 

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