New vs old

J

jmauld

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2020
2,844
Carolina Beach
Boat Info
2010 Sundancer 390
2016 Sea Hunt Ultra 211
Engines
Twin 8.1l of gas guzzling iron
If I were considering two similar boats, what are your thoughts and pros/cons.

1) 7-8 yr old 370 venture (gas, OB) that has 200-300 hrs and would cost $170k’ish.

2) 16-20 yr old gas or diesel boat (inboard only) with 500+ hours for around 120kish. Something in the 37-39’ range.

I want to avoid the “get the largest boat” argument. I understand that argument. I’m mainly looking for the pros/cons of an older vs new boat and if it’s worth paying the extra for a newer boat to reduce maintenance expenses and time in the shop right away.

My preference is towards the newer boat but need to have a strong case to convince the CFO that taking the larger loss in value over 10 yrs is worth it.
 
Its really about condition more than age. You are also dealing with outboard vs inboard, and that may be clouding the numbers. Secondly, time seems to be more favorable to diesels over gas. It may be just that diesels are built with more bulk, the lower rpms, I don't know. But a gas engine with 1500 hours on it is viewed as having one foot in the boneyard, but on a diesel it is just getting broken in.
 
Tons of variables to make a binary recommendation. All things being equal, meaning both passed survey with flying colors, I personally prefer the construction materials and methods back in the day. I like heavy wood boats over the new age plastic composites that cause new boats to bob around like a cork. Don't mean to start a war over this just answering your question with my opinion.

Also, new manufacturing practices are aimed at cost savings and efficiencies in both process and materials. Many brands are 100% robotic built, see Yamaha jet boat video on youtube.

I have a friend that is the shop foreman at a very popular brand builder in Florida. They build large center console boats with multiple outboards hanging off the transom for well into the mid 6-figures. They feature a "stepped" hull design. They still use much hand labor in the build process but big box manufacturers have gotten away from that trade for economic purposes.

I am searching for my next boat now and am considering many different styles and sizes the only constant is that I want a Sea Ray only. I'm just partial to that brand, mainly because their boats have served me fantastically and so why change now.

I just sold my 1970 ( you read that correctly) SRV180 that was 100% original. Same engine, vinyl, carpet, instruments, except the outdrive was updated, but everything else was as the day it left the factory in 1970.

I don't know of another brand you can point to like that except perhaps Bertram but they went out of business years ago.
 
I really like the venture but I realize that it’s the odd man out and that might not fair well for it long term. Or maybe I have that backwards.

I started to leave that piece of info out because I want to focus on new vs old and paying up front vs paying for more
Maintenance issues. Maybe that’s a bad assumption to make.
 
jmauld said:
I really like the venture but I realize that it’s the odd man out and that might not fair well for it long term. Or maybe I have that backwards.

I started to leave that piece of info out because I want to focus on new vs old and paying up front vs paying for more
Maintenance issues. Maybe that’s a bad assumption to make.
Click to expand...

Other than the choice of fuel being gasoline, I agree that the Venture was an outstanding concept. The big thing is the relative ease and lower expense for a repower. Before we bought our current boat we looked at two older boats that other than the engines were in impeccable condition. One in fact had been stored since new in 1997 in its own heated boathouse. We passed on both of them because the cost of re-power exceeded the current and future after re-power values. One was a Sabre, the other Mainship. So other than the potential economic pitfalls the Venture could be a good choice.

BTW, as a retired marine engineer with forty years experience in commercial marine transportation, the Captain’s comments regarding weight and the implied inferior conditions of modern techniques are an uninformed and incorrect opinion. As are his comments regarding quality builders,i.e. Duffey, Grand Banks, Hinckley, Sabre and Back Cove come to mind as traditional builders turning out a quality product. There are others.
 
To me, anything over 36 feet should be diesel. Gassers are too inefficient with bigger boats.

Outboards are much more modern technology and have great longevity, and many other plusses. I'd go with the Venture. It's newer and perhaps less stuff will break or be already broken -- at least initially.

I have twin 8.1L, and while they are good engines, they're older technology. Louder, too.

I can't tell where you're located. If you're in a place with lots of shallow water, the outboards are the way to go. I draw 37 inches and cannot go outside the marked channels at all. Then, I still might touch bottom here and there.

We've been having unusually low tides lately, and they seem to coincide with when we want to go boating. Because we've touched bottom in marked channels, we don't venture out at low tide.
 
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I like the style of the 03ish through 08ish. More classic design to me with some modern design traits.
 
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Older boats require much more ongoing maintenance to keep them going so you need to have deep pockets or be prepared to do a lot of the work yourself. We have owned new boats since 1979. The last one we owned was the best. Everyone got better from 1979 on. The builders just kept improving them so if you buy a newer boat, it will likely be better built than the earlier version that is 10 years older.
The 37 Venture is an interesting boat. It is similar to the Tiara of the same size. Tiara racked up lots of sales with their OB which was in the market about the same time. Sea Ray did not seem to enjoy the same commercial success. You should research the SR and learn more about it. It may be a difficult model to sell when you are ready to part with it.
 
I agree with SBW1 about resale of the Venture. They are nice boats, though.

If you're not attached to having a swimplatform, consider the Grady-White 360 Express. Very nice interior to my eye. Dual or triple outboards, fridge and freezer drawers in cabin, huge freezer and small fridge/freezer in cockpit. The cockpit has good seating around the helm and is airconditioned. Comes with diesel generator. Probably a better sea-keeping hull than a Sea Ray. No swimplatform for dinghy, though. Doesn't have Sea Ray styling. G-W has good resale value.
 
One thing about the Venture is it will be easier to get work done on it. A lot of mechanics won't work on inboard/io boats. And finding a competent mechanic for gas inboards is a challenge.
 
Henry Boyd said:
Other than the choice of fuel being gasoline, I agree that the Venture was an outstanding concept. The big thing is the relative ease and lower expense for a repower. Before we bought our current boat we looked at two older boats that other than the engines were in impeccable condition. One in fact had been stored since new in 1997 in its own heated boathouse. We passed on both of them because the cost of re-power exceeded the current and future after re-power values. One was a Sabre, the other Mainship. So other than the potential economic pitfalls the Venture could be a good choice.

BTW, as a retired marine engineer with forty years experience in commercial marine transportation, the Captain’s comments regarding weight and the implied inferior conditions of modern techniques are an uninformed and incorrect opinion. As are his comments regarding quality builders,i.e. Duffey, Grand Banks, Hinckley, Sabre and Back Cove come to mind as traditional builders turning out a quality product. There are others.
Click to expand...

Could I ask you a strange question? I just searched by boathouse and your post came up. I just purchased a boathouse and I’m having a terrible time finding insurance and my policy won’t add it. My understanding it’s as simple as adding an “out building” or “other structure”. Do you have insurance you’d recommend for the boathouse?
 
One thing to consider in the old boats vs new boats is how much computerization do you want and what kind of trouble might give you? CSR is loaded with threads of people who have had EMI go out and control panels go out, most of the older boats don’t have that fancy stuff that often cannot be sourced on a boat is 10 or 15 years old.
 
I like the 03 to 08 SeaRay’s the best. If you can afford fresh water I would in that direction. When I bought my boat two years ago I had two salt water boats surveyed and while one passed I could not get past the condition.
 
I recall that there were issues with planing with the Venture. Needed to get to 3600 or so. Don't quote me but there was a lot of discussion about it.
 
I ran Venture Hull #1 at the open house Sea Ray hosted in Knoxville several years ago. This boat had been tested and tweaked by PD&E and it does take more rpms to get performance but so do all outboards when compared to gas or diesel inboards.

The boats demo'd at the open house were there for dealers to run and see for the first time. The 3-4 times I was on the Venture, I was far from alone since there were 10-12 full sized adult on the boat. That venture had no problems getting up on the water and getting to plane.

It is my understanding that Marine Max committed for the first 15 Ventures and had some pressure on Sea Ray to get them built and delivered. Those first boats did not have the benefit of the same propsets that Hull # 1 did. The dealer eventually sold and delivered several Ventures without the benefit of the correct props even though that problem had been solved and the solution was at hand with a phone call to Product Design & Engineering at Merritt Island Fla.
 
AJ.Green said:
Could I ask you a strange question? I just searched by boathouse and your post came up. I just purchased a boathouse and I’m having a terrible time finding insurance and my policy won’t add it. My understanding it’s as simple as adding an “out building” or “other structure”. Do you have insurance you’d recommend for the boathouse?
Click to expand...
No idea, we only looked at a boat that had been kept in a boathouse by the selling owner.
 
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