Liberate Protestors

So in reading through this passionate thread I've tried to see both sides. All 3 of my adult children live in California. One is in law enforcement and one is a front line health care worker. The third is working from home. They've described California as insanity (their description-not mine). They've described much missing from store shelves and hoarding still occurring. They say they see the major minority groups mostly disregarding the stay-at-home orders and still gathering in parks and public places as usual.

I live in the New Orleans area. To be more specific, on the north side of Lake Pontchatrain in St. Tammany Parish (county). We are personally practicing social distancing to a point. The parish has a population of 253,600 and as of today we only have 1,111 cases reported (.44%) and 89 deaths (.035%). However across the lake in Orleans and Jefferson Parishes there are over 12,000 cases and almost 700 deaths related the COVID-19. I have no intention of going to that side of the lake.

My point is, living in an area with so few cases and deaths its kind of business as normal except for the standard closures. I'm retired and my wife is working from home but not traveling. I still go the the grocery store that is usually stocked with whatever we need. I go to Home Depot and Lowe's and even made a trip to West Marine. All are open. Lowe's and HD will limit the number of patrons allowed in at a time so on the weekends there are lines.

I know people are dying from this virus. I have a friend in NYC that has had it and recovered. My daughter-in-law in Sacramento (also in law enforcement) swears she had it last November. She had all of the same symptoms but was not tested for it....no one was last fall. For us, in our bubble, it's harder to watch friends with small businesses that have been forced to close. They have no income and have spent hard earned money to start a business only to see it go down the drain through no fault of their own. My wife is a commission-paid employee and while her company is still operating, many of her customers have shuttered and therefore she makes no commission. To those that have stated the economy will recover have clearly never owned a small business or managed a one where your income was related to that business being open and profitable.

Do I have an answer? Nope....only observations. I've tried to stay away from detailed news as you don't know who or what to believe. The numbers are higher than expected....no they're lower. We have a vaccine....but it doesn't work. It's going to get worse....it's getting better. It's Trump's fault....it's the Liberals. I learned a while back that most of the media reports what sells. It's not about what's right or wrong or even factual. Its about what brings viewers which translates to advertising dollars. Bad news sells....good news not so much. The country was f'ed up before this and I don't see it getting better for a while. They say...."What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" Let's hope....
Shawn
 
NorCal Boater said:
So in reading through this passionate thread I've tried to see both sides. All 3 of my adult children live in California. One is in law enforcement and one is a front line health care worker. The third is working from home. They've described California as insanity (their description-not mine). They've described much missing from store shelves and hoarding still occurring. They say they see the major minority groups mostly disregarding the stay-at-home orders and still gathering in parks and public places as usual.

I live in the New Orleans area. To be more specific, on the north side of Lake Pontchatrain in St. Tammany Parish (county). We are personally practicing social distancing to a point. The parish has a population of 253,600 and as of today we only have 1,111 cases reported (.44%) and 89 deaths (.035%). However across the lake in Orleans and Jefferson Parishes there are over 12,000 cases and almost 700 deaths related the COVID-19. I have no intention of going to that side of the lake.

My point is, living in an area with so few cases and deaths its kind of business as normal except for the standard closures. I'm retired and my wife is working from home but not traveling. I still go the the grocery store that is usually stocked with whatever we need. I go to Home Depot and Lowe's and even made a trip to West Marine. All are open. Lowe's and HD will limit the number of patrons allowed in at a time so on the weekends there are lines.

I know people are dying from this virus. I have a friend in NYC that has had it and recovered. My daughter-in-law in Sacramento (also in law enforcement) swears she had it last November. She had all of the same symptoms but was not tested for it....no one was last fall. For us, in our bubble, it's harder to watch friends with small businesses that have been forced to close. They have no income and have spent hard earned money to start a business only to see it go down the drain through no fault of their own. My wife is a commission-paid employee and while her company is still operating, many of her customers have shuttered and therefore she makes no commission. To those that have stated the economy will recover have clearly never owned a small business or managed a one where your income was related to that business being open and profitable.

Do I have an answer? Nope....only observations. I've tried to stay away from detailed news as you don't know who or what to believe. The numbers are higher than expected....no they're lower. We have a vaccine....but it doesn't work. It's going to get worse....it's getting better. It's Trump's fault....it's the Liberals. I learned a while back that most of the media reports what sells. It's not about what's right or wrong or even factual. Its about what brings viewers which translates to advertising dollars. Bad news sells....good news not so much. The country was f'ed up before this and I don't see it getting better for a while. They say...."What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" Let's hope....
Shawn
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Good post. I live in your area (Livingston Parish) and life is close to normal around here for many people. Traffic. Construction on-going. Grocery, Walmart’s, HD’s, auto parts, etc open and crowded. There are many closed businesses, but there are enough people out and about that the virus would spread really fast if a complete lockdown was necessary to stop it.

As far as risk in the work place, I wonder how many of the decision making politicians have ever worked in the real world where worksites are dangerous: Construction - nail guns, falling objects, overhead cranes, falling off roof tops, etc. Electricians - high voltage electrocution. Plant workers - hazardous chemicals, explosions. Welders - burns, eye damage, crushed by steel falling. Yard crews - extreme heat exhaustion. Tree trimmers - high altitude falls, falling trees, hornets. The list goes on. Many of these politicians went to Prep School, College, Law School, Legislature. Never had to climb a rickety ladder up on the side of a two-story building carrying a 30-lb Freon drum, gauges, and tool belt. You want danger? Work in the blue collar world for a while people. The politicians don’t get why the working man/woman has no fear of going back to work even though there may be some elevated risk of getting the virus. These working people have been managing risk their entire lives to make a living.
Let OSHA and the CDC develop a thorough safety plan for virus prevention and let these workers do what they have been doing all their careers - manage life and death risk. Ok, we got it.
 
Oh geezzz...

A spa owner in Washington State was one of the lucky ones who received a forgivable loan from the Small Business Administration through the Paycheck Protection Program. Yet when she told her employees what she thought was good news, many of them became angry.

Black-Lewis held a virtual employee meeting to explain that everyone would start receiving paychecks again thanks to the loans, thinking her staff would be ecstatic to get their income back. Unfortunately, due to the flat $600-a-week increase in weekly unemployment benefits included in the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill, it meant some of her employees would earn more being unemployed than if they were to get their jobs back.

Black-Lewis said even workers who would earn more by returning to work were upset with her for taking such an opportunity away from lower-paid workers.

“They were pissed I’d take this opportunity away from them to make more for my own selfish greed to pay rent,” she told the outlet.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/smal...loyees-on-payroll-now-her-employees-are-angry

Something about the road to hell...
 
yep. Wifes former students mother is a flagger for a road crew. She is the only one in the family with a job. She was laid off during this and started to collect unemployment. Last week she was told she would be going back to work next week. She wasn't happy. She knows she will be making alot less now that she is working. Same with her daughters husband. He makes $15/hour but lost his job in this. He is bringing home almost double what he did when he was working. He has not even looked for a job in the 4 weeks or so he has been unemployed.
 
boatman37 said:
yep. Wifes former students mother is a flagger for a road crew. She is the only one in the family with a job. She was laid off during this and started to collect unemployment. Last week she was told she would be going back to work next week. She wasn't happy. She knows she will be making alot less now that she is working. Same with her daughters husband. He makes $15/hour but lost his job in this. He is bringing home almost double what he did when he was working. He has not even looked for a job in the 4 weeks or so he has been unemployed.
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In Ca anyway, Unemployment covers a percentage of your wages and then supposedly the CARES act federal unemployment adds another $600/week for a limited time. It is sad to hear that people would stay on unemployment rather than go back to work. Un intended consequences of offering assistance or is it? It actually is working as designed. The dependent class was shrinking under the robust economy and the Dems couldn't have any of that now could they. They will do what ever they can to keep as many people on public assistance as possible and make sure their message is clear as to who doled out the goodies come election time and who is behind ending them. Oldest run in the play book!
Carpe Deim
 
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b_arrington said:
People seem the forget that “freedom” is neither absolute nor without significant responsibilities. One’s freedom is limited by the impact it has on others.

We’re not free to annoy our neighbors with loud music at 1AM. More relevant: we’re not “free” to go spread deadly diseases and imperil the public health.
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Annoying with music at 1am is an absolute infringement on someone elses right to peace and quiet. Forcing us to stay home because of a “possible” viral infection is NOT. I wear a mask when I go to the grocery. I do NOT need or want a lying immoral nanny government telling me I have to stay home. Your thinking could be applied as a justification for removal of every right we have as Americans. Not standing up to political fascism is morally wrong.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
 
RBB said:
A recent paper published by Imperial College London estimated that the true number of people who had been infected with the coronavirus in the U.K. as of March 30 was somewhere between 800,000 and 3.7 million 1 — as compared to a reported case count through that date of just 22,141.

I could not find the one for USA. Look at the difference in the case number. To me this makes since, which means the death rate is very low.
Just my opinion .
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statistically I can prove that the Covid19 infection rate in the US is somewhere between 1 and 350,000,000
 
MonacoMike said:
Oh geezzz...

A spa owner in Washington State was one of the lucky ones who received a forgivable loan from the Small Business Administration through the Paycheck Protection Program. Yet when she told her employees what she thought was good news, many of them became angry.

Black-Lewis held a virtual employee meeting to explain that everyone would start receiving paychecks again thanks to the loans, thinking her staff would be ecstatic to get their income back. Unfortunately, due to the flat $600-a-week increase in weekly unemployment benefits included in the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill, it meant some of her employees would earn more being unemployed than if they were to get their jobs back.

Black-Lewis said even workers who would earn more by returning to work were upset with her for taking such an opportunity away from lower-paid workers.

“They were pissed I’d take this opportunity away from them to make more for my own selfish greed to pay rent,” she told the outlet.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/smal...loyees-on-payroll-now-her-employees-are-angry

Something about the road to hell...
Click to expand...


I’d fire every last one and hire new ones.

She has to spend 75% on pre shutdown payroll, but it doesn’t have to be to the same people.

Ungrateful a$$hats.
 
Woody said:
You people just don't understand how shit should work....workin' ain't important....all it does is put food on your table
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I have known and dated many women meeting the description of “Dingbat” in my life, but the vacuum that exists between AOC’s ears defy’s all possible description of the English language.

If we ever have an alien species come investigate our planet for possible invasion, we need to make sure the aliens meet AOC...not only would they haul ass and never come back, but they would probably post a “Dangerous Inhabitants” quarantine space buoy marking our solar system.
 
Phasma said:
statistically I can prove that the Covid19 infection rate in the US is somewhere between 1 and 350,000,000
Click to expand...
Plasma,
Your prediction is too limited. You forgot to add your “margin of error.” Should be anywhere from -200,000 to 700,000,000 US Citizens infected. Obviously, you are not an Epidemiologist!!
 
Woody said:
You people just don't understand how shit should work....workin' ain't important....all it does is put food on your table
Click to expand...
....and to think, she was off of her parents healthcare plan only 3 years ago and yet so wise.:rolleyes:o_O
 
DWABoat said:
I have known and dated many women meeting the description of “Dingbat” in my life, but the vacuum that exists between AOC’s ears defy’s all possible description of the English language..
Click to expand...

Who's more of a 'Dingbat' or "Moonbat' - her or the people that voted for her?
 
OllieC said:
Who's more of a 'Dingbat' or "Moonbat' - her or the people that voted for her?
Click to expand...

I stand corrected...you are completely correct, sir. My hope is that the good people of NYC didn’t realize how extreme the vacuum suction was when they voted for her. I think/hope she is still in her first term.
How that lovely, charming, intelligent, educated, introspective lady somehow ended up having influence and control of my life down here in La, I will never understand.
NY please fix this.
 
Carpediem44DB said:
In Ca anyway, Unemployment covers a percentage of your wages and then supposedly the CARES act federal unemployment adds another $600/week for a limited time. It is sad to hear that people would stay on unemployment rather than go back to work. Un intended consequences of offering assistance or is it? It actually is working as designed. The dependent class was shrinking under the robust economy and the Dems couldn't have any of that now could they. They will do what ever they can to keep as many people on public assistance as possible and make sure their message is clear as to who doled out the goodies come election time and who is behind ending them. Oldest run in the play book!
Carpe Deim
Click to expand...

You don’t seem to understand how unemployment insurance works. In normal times it is insurance, the employee and employer pay into the system and only those people who have paid in can get benefits under specific conditions. Since the federal government is the “insurance Company” it is their rules that the states go by. It makes sense since all of the funding for benefits comes from the Feds.

Now of course we have temporary rules that allow people who while working were not paying into the unemployment system; independent contractors, unincorporated self employed, temp workers, etc. Here’s the fallacy of your “it’s a conspiracy pulled off by the Dems” theory. The new rules were voted for by the largely Democratic House, but also by the Republican Senate and signed by a Republican President. The President btw has rightfully claimed the credit for getting this legislation passed. So that kind of shoots your conspiracy theory in the foot.
 
Henry Boyd said:
You don’t seem to understand how unemployment insurance works. In normal times it is insurance, the employee and employer pay into the system and only those people who have paid in can get benefits under specific conditions. Since the federal government is the “insurance Company” it is their rules that the states go by. It makes sense since all of the funding for benefits comes from the Feds.

Now of course we have temporary rules that allow people who while working were not paying into the unemployment system; independent contractors, unincorporated self employed, temp workers, etc. Here’s the fallacy of your “it’s a conspiracy pulled off by the Dems” theory. The new rules were voted for by the largely Democratic House, but also by the Republican Senate and signed by a Republican President. The President btw has rightfully claimed the credit for getting this legislation passed. So that kind of shoots your conspiracy theory in the foot.
Click to expand...
Its not a conspiracy theory, Its reality. Unfortunately Trump is going along with it and approving it because if he didn't he would have even more spears thrown at him. I know full well how unemployment works, I ran my own business for thirty years and dealt with the issue from time to time. The post I was responding to told of folks that found it more beneficial to remain on the assistance than actually going back into the work force. The system should be designed to encourage being a part of the productive work force, not being dependent on other's production was my point.
Carpe Diem
 
Henry Boyd said:
Really? Just looked at the News App on my iPad and the story is there from the Reuter’s wire service. As for deaths in nursing homes why are you surprised? These stories have been pretty much part of the coronavirus news landscape for the past month.
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Shows how the uniformed get their information. To be clear and factual, as of about three weeks ago NY has ordered nursing facilities to accept and treat COVID patients in their facilities. Facilities full of the absolutely most vulnerable segment of the population. There can be no argument with that fact. It is an act that, at minimum, borders on criminally negligent. Where has that been reported Hank? Other than a couple of articles sneaking out in the last couple of days, the only people finding out about this were those notified by the homes that their elderly relatives were in. And this is not from Reuters or other media outlets. I just lost a 93 year old great-aunt who was sharp as a tack until 2 weeks ago. And a good friend lost his 94 year old aunt/godmother who was similarly doing fine. Both in nursing facilities in NYS that brought in COVID patients as ordered. Lawsuits will be coming.
 
gmacd81 said:
Shows how the uniformed get their information. To be clear and factual, as of about three weeks ago NY has ordered nursing facilities to accept and treat COVID patients in their facilities. Facilities full of the absolutely most vulnerable segment of the population. There can be no argument with that fact. It is an act that, at minimum, borders on criminally negligent. Where has that been reported Hank? Other than a couple of articles sneaking out in the last couple of days, the only people finding out about this were those notified by the homes that their elderly relatives were in. And this is not from Reuters or other media outlets. I just lost a 93 year old great-aunt who was sharp as a tack until 2 weeks ago. And a good friend lost his 94 year old aunt/godmother who was similarly doing fine. Both in nursing facilities in NYS that brought in COVID patients as ordered. Lawsuits will be coming.
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Very sad. A lot of mistakes made with nursing homes. We have a similar issue in Canada with them being hot spots once disease gets in. IMO the flaw in logic was set very early on when this virus was very underestimated by those in charge of making decisions. The time will come to do a thorough root cause analysis. I think this will be assessed as a series of mistakes upon mistakes with an overlying layer of passing the buck and responses based on politics. And that will cross all borders and parties. I hope to god we learn something from all of this. The next one could be far worse.
 

I found myself feeling more sympathy for the officers on this one even though I understood the points the women were making. There was a suggestion that the women were "professional protesters" on the site I saw this but I don't know if that's so.
 
gmacd81 said:
Shows how the uniformed get their information. To be clear and factual, as of about three weeks ago NY has ordered nursing facilities to accept and treat COVID patients in their facilities. Facilities full of the absolutely most vulnerable segment of the population. There can be no argument with that fact. It is an act that, at minimum, borders on criminally negligent. Where has that been reported Hank? Other than a couple of articles sneaking out in the last couple of days, the only people finding out about this were those notified by the homes that their elderly relatives were in. And this is not from Reuters or other media outlets. I just lost a 93 year old great-aunt who was sharp as a tack until 2 weeks ago. And a good friend lost his 94 year old aunt/godmother who was similarly doing fine. Both in nursing facilities in NYS that brought in COVID patients as ordered. Lawsuits will be coming.
Click to expand...




Google “Washington State nursing home covid deaths”. It will turn up pages of news reports many dating back to the beginning of March.

Substitute Massachusetts for Washington State and you can scroll through pages of news reports dating back to the beginning of April. No surprise as Mass’s infection timeline is about a month behind Washington State.

Substitute California and you can see reports dating to mid March.

Substitute Maryland into the search and you get similar results, including news reports dated April 5 outlining new more stringent nursing home regulations mandated by government.

Whether you agree, or disagree, with the slant of the news presentation, the fact remains the incidents happened and people in nursing homes died and these events were documented weeks ago, not just recently.
 
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