food rationing???

Mark, I just read/scanned the list of NY laws and also the info posted below by the organization that put it all together. WOW!

I got a kick out of the section on what is a loaded firearm. Paraphrasing here, if you have a firearm in your possession and also have ammo, even though the gun is not loaded at the time but COULD BE with the ammo you have, then that gun is considered to be loaded. WOW.

I would venture a guess that NY has a VERY low crime rate with all those gun laws. I mean, criminals obey gun control laws like all other laws, don't they?
 
my3sons said:
yep, I was odd number. I think they did that again downstate after super storm Sandy.
Maybe we should do that with TP :)
Click to expand...

In Colombia they manage traffic in the large cities by banning cars with even and odd numbered licence plates from entering downtown zones on alternate days. So the wealthy have two cars.
 
Gofirstclass said:
Does anyone from NY or NJ know if the rights to carry under LEOSA have any standing in those states?

In the western states the LEOSA card is pretty much a Get Out Of Jail Free card when presented with the Retired LEO ID card.
Click to expand...

Current LEOSA is good in both states. They recognize it as a federal law.
You’re good to go in both states, including in NYC with LEOSA.
Two things to remember.
NY has a limit on Magazine capacity to 10 rounds, except active/off duty LEO from agencies in NYS. They tried to make it 7, but the courts overruled that so it’s 10.
NJ outlawed hollow points.

Additional info:
Lots of “gun free” places in NYC (like MSG). Mostly large entertainment and sports venues. Exceptions in some for off duty NYPD, a few include retired NYPD. None that I can think of make exceptions for active or retired from outside agencies. Some wand, some don’t.
“Fun fact: NYPD on the ground always honored out of town active and licensed retired legit full time LEO’s.”
Same is true with gun free zones in NJ, so don’t plan on seeing a Giant game.
Flying in or out of NY area airports. Check with your airline for their rules, comply and you’ll be good.
JFK/LGA/EWR are policed by PAPD. That’s who an airport employee will call over to check you out. In nearly 40 years of dealing with PAPD as an active and retired guy I’ve always found them to be nothing short of fantastic. Lots of them are former NYPD these days.
 
Last edited:
JVM225 said:
Current LEOSA is good in both states.
You’re good to go.
Two things to remember.
NY has a limit on Magazine capacity to 10 rounds. They tried to make it 7, but the courts overruled that so it’s 10.
NJ outlawed hollow points.
Click to expand...
On the 7 rounds, it was struck down and then that ruling was upheld, but did they ever actually change the law? I could be wrong but I think the 7 rounds are still on the books.
I can't find anything that says the law was actually changed unless it was done in the dark of night so they wouldn't have to eat crow on it.

Few years old, but for you guys not from NYS, this is the BS we're talking about.
https://psanded.com/7-or-10-rounds/
 
Last edited:
my3sons said:
On the 7 rounds, it was struck down and then that ruling was upheld, but did they ever actually change the law? I could be wrong but I think the 7 rounds are still on the books.
I can't find anything that says the law was actually changed unless it was done in the dark of night so they wouldn't have to eat crow on it.

Few years old, but for you guys not from NYS, this is the BS we're talking about.
https://psanded.com/7-or-10-rounds/
Click to expand...

It’s 10 plus one in the chamber. That’s the info I get when I re-qualify under LEOSA.
 
my3sons said:
On the 7 rounds, it was struck down and then that ruling was upheld, but did they ever actually change the law? I could be wrong but I think the 7 rounds are still on the books.
I can't find anything that says the law was actually changed unless it was done in the dark of night so they wouldn't have to eat crow on it.

Few years old, but for you guys not from NYS, this is what we're talking about.
https://psanded.com/7-or-10-rounds/
Click to expand...

The 7 round limit was struck down only for the western district in NY; to add to the cluster of this state!

HR-218 SHOULD allow carry in all jurisdictions but, as stated above, NYC is its own brainless entity! HR-218 is applicable to both retired LEO and those with a minimum of 10 years full time service with recurring qualification requirements and limited to the type of weapon qualified with. You must carry your retirement credentials along with your authorization. In addition, an HR-218 holder must also comply with the use of force laws within the jurisdiction where they are carrying.
 
Garintheair said:
The 7 round limit was struck down only for the western district in NY; to add to the cluster of this state!

HR-218 SHOULD allow carry in all jurisdictions but, as stated above, NYC is its own brainless entity! HR-218 is applicable to both retired LEO and those with a minimum of 10 years full time service with recurring qualification requirements and limited to the type of weapon qualified with. You must carry your retirement credentials along with your authorization. In addition, an HR-218 holder must also comply with the use of force laws within the jurisdiction where they are carrying.
Click to expand...

NYC is okay for active LEO’s and those properly qualified under LEOSA from anywhere in the country.
Absent LEOSA, not all retired cops bother with qualifying under LEOSA, NYC honors retired Police Officers from agencies in NYS as long as the issuing NY county stamps the permit to indicate retired Police Officer. It’s a state law.
Non LEO carry permits from anywhere other than NYC are no good in NYC unless NYC endorses it. Chances are slim to none that anyone other than a well connected VIP of some sort can ever get that.
 
Garintheair said:
The 7 round limit was struck down only for the western district in NY; to add to the cluster of this state!
Click to expand...
Yes, but even on the SafeAct site it says ten round mags and does not say anything about limiting rounds to 7. So one assumes 10 rounds, but did they actually change the law to 10? Or do we have to site the past rulings to defend ourselves? The whole 7 round thing was just so Cuomo could say he enacted the most restrictive magazine law in the country.
This is how stupid laws that are passed just for political purposes affects honest people.
 
my3sons said:
Yes, but even on the SafeAct site it says ten round mags and does not say anything about limiting rounds to 7. So one assumes 10 rounds, but did they actually change the law to 10? Or do we have to site the past rulings to defend ourselves? The whole 7 round thing was just so Cuomo could say he enacted the most restrictive magazine law in the country.
This is how stupid laws that are passed just for political purposes affects honest people.
Click to expand...

Sorry, can’t quote you a date, time or place that they made the 10 rounds okay. If you’re an FOP member you can probably get the info from them.
I know that my lodge sent out info about it back then, but I don’t save the newsletters.
To complicate things further: The FOP successfully lobbied and had an exception made for retirees from NYS and Federal agencies to include magazines with more than 10 round capacity if it was possessed prior to retirement (duty weapon), you qualified with it within 18 months before you retired and your re-qualify with it every 3 years.
So for instance, 15 round magazines are good for my Sig P226 as long as I keep up with the rules.
 
my3sons said:
Yes, but even on the SafeAct site it says ten round mags and does not say anything about limiting rounds to 7. So one assumes 10 rounds, but did they actually change the law to 10? Or do we have to site the past rulings to defend ourselves? The whole 7 round thing was just so Cuomo could say he enacted the most restrictive magazine law in the country.
This is how stupid laws that are passed just for political purposes affects honest people.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked in awhile but 10 round mags are again legal but can only be loaded with 7 rounds except for the western district which can load 10 rounds following Judge Skretny's ruling-upheld on appeal-unless exemptions apply...

...oh, and plus one in the chamber.

...oh, and State Police instructed not to enforce round limit...subject to no criminal acts...subject to officer discretion...

...subject to any other jurisdictional LEO discretion...!

Simple, really...

:O
 
Last edited:
I don’t understand the function of this limit.

Besides, how many civilian gunfights go long enough to require reloading?

Now it’s a whole different story if we’re talking zombie apocalypse.

Im trying to convince my son into selling me his AR. Kid has stashes everywhere.
 
El Capitan said:
I don’t understand the function of this limit.

Besides, how many civilian gunfights go long enough to require reloading?

Now it’s a whole different story if we’re talking zombie apocalypse.
Click to expand...

That all depends.

Have you ever been involved in a lethal force confrontation?
 
El Capitan said:
I don’t understand the function of this limit.

Besides, how many civilian gunfights go long enough to require reloading?

Now it’s a whole different story if we’re talking zombie apocalypse.

Im trying to convince my son into selling me his AR. Kid has stashes everywhere.
Click to expand...

From everything I've read and learned in different training classes - most are 2-3 shots fired.
 
firecadet613 said:
From everything I've read and learned in different training classes - most are 2-3 shots fired.
Click to expand...

Just like street/bar fights. 1minute or less and often goes to the ground. No 5-minute round fights in real life. No 10-50 round civilian gunfights either.
 
El Capitan said:
Nope. And I know even most LEOs haven’t either. And most civilians won’t , at least not live to tell about it.
Click to expand...

I was involved in one armed confrontation long ago with no shots fired; although ended "well," it was an eye opener for me even with my training at the time.

I have five personal friends, still in law enforcement, who have fired shots in self defense. Our discussions after the fact was also eye opening.

There is no one size fits all as every situation is unique.
 
I was a PA State Constable for 6 years (1 elected term). As such we are considered a private contractor and we are our own agency. We are sworn law enforcement and fit the definition of peace officer and have arrest authority. We were governed by the PCCD (Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency). I served from 2004-2010. We had a card issued by PCCD that indicated if we were firearms certified and insured. Many PA constables only run with the intention of working the polls on election day. They do not have to be certified or insured. If you wanted to serve warrants and actively work you were required to be certified and insured but the firearms certification was optional.

Anyway, shortly after HR218 was passed a constable was in NYC and was arrested and jailed over the weekend for carrying, NYPD would not accept his card and could not contact PCCD until Monday morning. As far as I understand the constable sued the NYPD and won.

So based on that I am not eligible for HR218 as a former LEO but when I was I was able to carry in all 50 states and the U.S. owned entities. My step-son is a current Corporal detective with a local PD and head of his FOP chapter. Back around 2010 he was in about his 2nd year and was forced to fire at a suspect. They were pretty sure he hit the guy. There were about 5 cops there and the guy came out with a shotgun in 1 hand and a handgun in the other. He pointed the shotgun at my step-son so he fired. The suspect then fired a shot up as he flinched back. The other officers fired after that. The suspect was hit in the chest and in the leg (2 hits total). The bullet in his chest was in a place they did not want to remove it so they aren't certain who actually hit him there but based on the guys body reaction they are pretty sure he was hit that first shot. It was about 3:00AM and me being a constable I had a 2 way radio that was on 24/7. My wife heard the call and jumped up and called our daughter-in-law and she confirmed that he was involved. He got home about 5:00AM and later said he thinks he was in shock. He couldn't sleep and she said when he got home he had a blank stare. The DA and the CO were onsite and took his weapon and issued him another one right there on the spot. He was on desk duty about a week and had to go to counseling but in the end he says he would do it again if he had to. A few years later they were in a police chase and a neighboring township cruiser was t-boned by the suspect and the officer in the passenger seat of that car was killed. Nobody knew there were 2 officers in the car cause the 2nd one had finished his shift earlier but decided to ride along with the next shift. When the 1st officer got out my step-son was first onsite. He went up to that officer and asked if he was ok. That officer looked over my step-sons shoulder so B turned around and saw the other officer laying on the ground. He went over to check on him and half of his head was missing. He said that had a bigger impact on him than shooting at the bad guy.
Turns out it was a female driver with no license and thats why she was running. This wasn't the first time she had ran from the police but she is in prison now.

Alot of people outside of law enforcement don't know what these guys go through. Not an easy job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,117
Messages
1,426,416
Members
61,029
Latest member
Curious
Back
Top