Raymarine to be 'divested'

gerryb

gerryb

Well-Known Member
TECHNICAL Contributor
Oct 12, 2006
1,974
Somers Point, NJ
Boat Info
"On Vacation"
2006 40 Sundancer
Raymarine E125 & HD Radar + Garmin 5208
Engines
QSB5.9 380 Cummins
Heard the announcement from FLIR this morning that Raymarine isn't making the cut financially and they are looking to sell that business. My question is who might be out there that would be interested?
 
In the spring of 2017, I bought all new RM gear as my old stuff was stolen. I bought the a127 and the Quantum radar to go with it. The radar failed after the 2nd year because of some genius who forgot to include weep holes for the condensation that forms inside to escape out of. So, it took 2 years to fill up with enough water to fry the electronics. The warranty replacement had weep holes built into it. Anyway, with this type of poor design, I am not surprised.
 
Possibly a competitor.
 
A likely play for Garmin to acquire the user base, or Lowrance to buy market share.
 
Interesting. Thanks for posting that link to the article, Keith.

IMO FLIR brought Raymarine's technology up several notches through the years. Similar to how Ford improved many aspects of Jaguar.
 
I doubt anyone with inside knowledge will indulge me with the facts, but I would speculate that the margins on FLIR products is much, much higher than RM. RM is likely a legacy brand with reasonable margins. But, who likes reasonable margins when the music is playing like their is no tomorrow.

The worst thing that could happen to it would be PE...
 
Damn....Flir is the only reason I picked RM. Hope someone reputable jumps in. I really like the Axiom mfd and Flir camera I have.
Much improved over the old stuff.
 
Kind of surprised. I really liked some of the new Raymarine stuff that launched over the past few years. Albeit i never bought any and I do love my Garmin 7612's. It did feel like they took way too long to invest in the new touch, high rez, high processing era. They probably lost too many clients by the time they got back in the game.
FLIR is a publicly traded company, which in my experience isn't all that different than being owned by a PE company. Sometimes its worse...
 
The Bill Collector said:
In the spring of 2017, I bought all new RM gear as my old stuff was stolen. I bought the a127 and the Quantum radar to go with it. The radar failed after the 2nd year because of some genius who forgot to include weep holes for the condensation that forms inside to escape out of. So, it took 2 years to fill up with enough water to fry the electronics. The warranty replacement had weep holes built into it. Anyway, with this type of poor design, I am not surprised.
Click to expand...
Yup same thing happened to my radar unit even though it was an older one when It stopped working I went up top to pop the cover off and looked inside and saw a fishbowl, very very upsetting
 
The relatively new augmented reality feature in Raymarine seems to be driving significant renewed interest in their product line. It really seems like a differentiator.

I’m not sure where the IP for that lies - with FLIR or Raymarine. It’s it’s FLIR I would t be surprised to see that migrate to other brands. In any event, I would expect FLIR to have greater integration with other brands, post divestiture. The FLIR cameras are cool and looks like a good safety feature, but darn are they expensive!!
 
b_arrington said:
The relatively new augmented reality feature in Raymarine seems to be driving significant renewed interest in their product line. It really seems like a differentiator.

I’m not sure where the IP for that lies - with FLIR or Raymarine. It’s it’s FLIR I would t be surprised to see that migrate to other brands. In any event, I would expect FLIR to have greater integration with other brands, post divestiture. The FLIR cameras are cool and looks like a good safety feature, but darn are they expensive!!
Click to expand...
Hence the margins Boat Guy spoke of.
 
I always wondered who in recreational boating buy FLIR's for a "true need" vs. coolness/status factors. My guess is mostly for coolness and status. Are so many of us boating around out there in the dark?
 
I'm a marketer by trade, and rarely do I ever believe products/services fail because of poor marketing. After all, if a product is good, it will sell. (Formula boats is a great example; their marketing is abysmal, but their product is fantastic, so the factory usually has a backlog.)

But I might go against my beliefs on this one and blame Raymarine's marketing. It's terrible. They effectively let engineers write copy to describe their products, while Garmin and Simrad use real world lingo and point out the benefits of their products:

Raymarine's Axiom Pro 16 Intro Paragraph:

Axiom Pro is engineered for captains that want it all. Available with RealVision 3D, 1kW CHIRP sonar, and Raymarine HybridTouch control, Axiom Pro is the new standard for “allin-one” multifunction devices. And with a blazing fast quad core processor, a super bright high-definition IPS display, and the smart LightHouse OS, Axiom Pro delivers a fluid and intuitive navigation experience. Axiom Pro is easy to expand into an advanced navigation network that includes multiple Raymarine Axiom displays, CHIRP radar, Evolution autopilot, FLIR thermal night vision technology, and more.

WTH is "RealVision 3D, 1kW CHIRP, LightHouse, and even HybridTouch control" (you basically need a PhD in Raymarine to understand this paragraph)?!

In contrast, here is Garmin's:

Serious sport fishermen, cruisers, sailors and sail racers demand serious equipment. The easy-to-use, easy-to-install GPSMAP 8616xsv chartplotter/sonar combo delivers MFD performance in a combo-size package. It features a 16” full HD IPS touchscreen display for wider viewing angles, superior clarity and sunlight readability, even with polarized sunglasses. Multiple displays can be flat mounted edge-to-edge to create a sleek glass helm look or can be mounted flush.

The first sentence speaks to possible market segments. Then second assures the buyer it's not a pain to add to his/her boat. The third gives high-level specs (16" and touchscreen and good for outdoor use). The fourth tells you it looks sexy.

Most pleasure boaters use these devices very casually, and they're not professional navigators. Garmin's simplicity works in these cases.

I think Raymarine makes a great product; my last boat had the es12 MFD with Axiom software, and I miss some of its functionality compared to the Simrad EVO in my new boat.
 
brewster16 said:
I always wondered who in recreational boating buy FLIR's for a "true need" vs. coolness/status factors. My guess is mostly for coolness and status. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'll start by saying the FLIR camera technology (defined as infra-red / night vision / low vision) is very impressive and certainly can provide improved situational awareness and safety.

IMO, a FLIR camera on a recreational vessel is an expensive add-on that is either for vessels that boat a lot at night / poor visibility, or just want it because of a cool factor and the owner can afford it. I see adding a FLIR camera as way down the safety list. I'd put it after radar, AIS-B, AIS-A, personal locators, and EPIRBS. For my situation and perceived benefit, the following would be higher on my list: autopilot, engine camera(s), cockpit camera (I have a blind spot when running), security system, wifi extender, AIS.

To me, the FLIR cameras just have a much higher price tag and limited utility. Consider that a mounted FLIR camera starts around $2500 and quickly goes to $3500, $14000, and even $85,000. Check out these screen grabs from West Marine.

upload_2020-2-28_9-27-28.png


upload_2020-2-28_9-28-13.png
 
FastMarkA said:
I'm a marketer by trade, and rarely do I ever believe products/services fail because of poor marketing. After all, if a product is good, it will sell. (Formula boats is a great example; their marketing is abysmal, but their product is fantastic, so the factory usually has a backlog.)

But I might go against my beliefs on this one and blame Raymarine's marketing. It's terrible. They effectively let engineers write copy to describe their products, while Garmin and Simrad use real world lingo and point out the benefits of their products:

Raymarine's Axiom Pro 16 Intro Paragraph:

Axiom Pro is engineered for captains that want it all. Available with RealVision 3D, 1kW CHIRP sonar, and Raymarine HybridTouch control, Axiom Pro is the new standard for “allin-one” multifunction devices. And with a blazing fast quad core processor, a super bright high-definition IPS display, and the smart LightHouse OS, Axiom Pro delivers a fluid and intuitive navigation experience. Axiom Pro is easy to expand into an advanced navigation network that includes multiple Raymarine Axiom displays, CHIRP radar, Evolution autopilot, FLIR thermal night vision technology, and more.

WTH is "RealVision 3D, 1kW CHIRP, LightHouse, and even HybridTouch control" (you basically need a PhD in Raymarine to understand this paragraph)?!

In contrast, here is Garmin's:

Serious sport fishermen, cruisers, sailors and sail racers demand serious equipment. The easy-to-use, easy-to-install GPSMAP 8616xsv chartplotter/sonar combo delivers MFD performance in a combo-size package. It features a 16” full HD IPS touchscreen display for wider viewing angles, superior clarity and sunlight readability, even with polarized sunglasses. Multiple displays can be flat mounted edge-to-edge to create a sleek glass helm look or can be mounted flush.

The first sentence speaks to possible market segments. Then second assures the buyer it's not a pain to add to his/her boat. The third gives high-level specs (16" and touchscreen and good for outdoor use). The fourth tells you it looks sexy.

Most pleasure boaters use these devices very casually, and they're not professional navigators. Garmin's simplicity works in these cases.

I think Raymarine makes a great product; my last boat had the es12 MFD with Axiom software, and I miss some of its functionality compared to the Simrad EVO in my new boat.
Click to expand...

Bingo. I also have a lot of marketing experience. Their product descriptions are terrible. Tells you nothing about the utility or benefit of any of the mentioned technologies.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought FLIR was born as a military technology company. A market that is less price concerned. They are used to selling expensive tech to the Gov't and it trickles into the retail market for those that want the latest and greatest. They are laughing all the way to the bank. I would also bet that they are fast and careful to have as much IP / patents to restrict competition, as I am certain if the market was open and competitive the prices would be about half of what they are today or perhaps less...Look at how cheap sports cameras and gimbles are in the semi-pro market. Do you honestly believe NV is that difficult? A tech that's been around decades? Convince me...In fact, the housing reminds me of Sony security cameras in the security industry.
 
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