Car Question....

I’ll throw out a new suggestion: the Audi Q5, or it’s cousin the Porsche Macan. My wife has the Q5, but the A6 she had before that went 240000 miles. We had that repaired at an Indy shop and until the last year total annual maintenance costs never exceeded the 12 month cost of car payments.

The Q5 2.0t engine is the same as the Macan base, as is the PDK dual clutch transmission. The sq5 and the S, GTS and turbo Macans all have v6s of various hp rating. The Q5 and Macan base are basically the same car with the Audi being more Comfort oriented and the Porsche performance. I had a Macan S for a year and the wife’s Q5 was by far more comfortable, the Macan on the other hand was faster.
 
I’ll throw out a new suggestion: the Audi Q5, or it’s cousin the Porsche Macan. My wife has the Q5, but the A6 she had before that went 240000 miles. We had that repaired at an Indy shop and until the last year total annual maintenance costs never exceeded the 12 month cost of car payments.

The Q5 2.0t engine is the same as the Macan base, as is the PDK dual clutch transmission. The sq5 and the S, GTS and turbo Macans all have v6s of various hp rating. The Q5 and Macan base are basically the same car with the Audi being more Comfort oriented and the Porsche performance. I had a Macan S for a year and the wife’s Q5 was by far more comfortable, the Macan on the other hand was faster.
Thanks but both of those models are outside the budget. I love Audis and we have owned Porsches in the past. At this stage in life I need to be practical....Man I hate that!
 
Add me to the GMC vote. My wife put 130,000 on a 2011 Acadia and which point we turned around, traded it in and bought another. They've been great SUV's for us. Perfectly sized for someone that doesn't want to deal with a full size SUV like the Tahoe/Yukon.

Knock on wood...they've been very reliable vehicles for us. Other than oil, brakes and tires I think I only had one "repair" on the 2011 in 130k miles - a $40 emissions sensor.
 
Ha ha. I love when people say the repair bills on the German cars are reasonable because they are less than the payments on a new one. Simple advice and totally biased by my experiwncw with BMW. NEVER buy a German luxury car. Lease if you want but don’t own one after the warranty expires. You financially would be better off leasing new ones back to back. Yeah people will say they did not have that experience. But if you can get them to tell you the total repair bills for the years they owned after warranty you will see that they are in denial (or maybe acceptance???).
They are great cars to drive. Horrible to own. That said Porsche seems to have good ratings lately. And Audi being a sister co maybe better than the past??
 
Ha ha. I love when people say the repair bills on the German cars are reasonable because they are less than the payments on a new one. Simple advice and totally biased by my experiwncw with BMW. NEVER buy a German luxury car. Lease if you want but don’t own one after the warranty expires. You financially would be better off leasing new ones back to back. Yeah people will say they did not have that experience. But if you can get them to tell you the total repair bills for the years they owned after warranty you will see that they are in denial (or maybe acceptance???).
They are great cars to drive. Horrible to own. That said Porsche seems to have good ratings lately. And Audi being a sister co maybe better than the past??

I mean...you're preaching about the economics of repairs on a site dedicated to a "not so low end" boat manufacturer. Total fiscal responsibility is a ship that sailed (great pun) for most of us many moons ago :):)
 
Add me to the GMC vote. My wife put 130,000 on a 2011 Acadia and which point we turned around, traded it in and bought another. They've been great SUV's for us. Perfectly sized for someone that doesn't want to deal with a full size SUV like the Tahoe/Yukon.

Knock on wood...they've been very reliable vehicles for us. Other than oil, brakes and tires I think I only had one "repair" on the 2011 in 130k miles - a $40 emissions sensor.

Wow, this choice would be tough for me. German cars have a reputation for being expensive to repair.

On the other hand, my wife also had a 2011 Acadia. She LOVED that car. However...it had some significant issues.

The flywheel chipped a couple teeth and had to be replaced. The part was not bad, but the labor was a lot. Constantly blew right side headlights, which were a royal b!itch to replace. It had a few other issues, until the big one. Long story, but it started to loose oil. We kept a close eye on it but they a lot went missing - no leaks detected (used a tracer dye). The low oil light never came on. The low oil volume and resulting low pressure caused issues with the power steering and driveability. According to my mechanic, the engine design also meant that the timing chain was not getting sufficient lubrication and was slapping around the inside of the engine. He called the problem a "time bomb" and advised us to get rid of the car ASAP. It only had 130k miles. Note that we we did all of the necessary maintenance and had the oil changed very regularly - that's how we started to notice that it was loosing some oil.

My wife really wanted a new Acadia - or the Chevy Traverse that is the same as the old Acadia. Now the current Acadia is completely different than the one we had so it's not a totally fair comparison. But in discussing GM with my mechanic, his opinion of GM is that their trucks are rock solid. But their mid-size vehicles just don't have the quality to last. They just start to fall apart at around 90k miles and the engines are not robust. Since we buy and keep our cars a long time he steered us away from GM. He also felt that GM charges a premium price for cars that not not up to snuff vs. Japanese competitors.

If you're not planning on keeping the Acadia over 90-100k miles it might be fine. I'll just finish by saying that I convinced my wife to get a 2019 Honda Pilot, based significantly on durability. She hates it and wishes she'd gotten the Traverse.
 
Ha ha. I love when people say the repair bills on the German cars are reasonable because they are less than the payments on a new one. Simple advice and totally biased by my experiwncw with BMW. NEVER buy a German luxury car. Lease if you want but don’t own one after the warranty expires. You financially would be better off leasing new ones back to back. Yeah people will say they did not have that experience. But if you can get them to tell you the total repair bills for the years they owned after warranty you will see that they are in denial (or maybe acceptance???).
They are great cars to drive. Horrible to own. That said Porsche seems to have good ratings lately. And Audi being a sister co maybe better than the past??

I gather you don’t make capital expenditures decisions for a living. One of the first tests in determining the economic sense of the replacement of an asset is whether the cost to keep exceeds the cost to replace. When the replacement cost exceeds the cost to keep, additional benefits have to be established to offset the fact that the new item will cost more than maintaining the old one. These additional factors can be features that reduce the cost per item manufactured, maintain a higher production rate, or provide some new features that streamline the process. But since a personal car does not generate revenue, there is no economic value to replace a car when the replacement will cost more than the present ownership.

As for leasing a car for personal use, that is the very definition of economically foolish. Simply because you pay a premium for not putting money down and the convenience of being able to move to something else in 30 to 36 months. The simple fact is buying the car and then selling it when done is cheaper than leasing. How can this be? Because that is exactly what a leasing company does. A leasing company’s cost of capital is on par with individual buyers, and since the FMV of the car is the same regardless of first the operator’s status, and since leasing companies have to make profits, the profits can only come from lease payments.
 
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My 2003 bmw 530I has 275000 miles on it besides suspension and brakes replacement which I take care of. The only thing it had to go to a shop for was to replace the throttle body that had to be programmed. You always hear parts are more expensive but if the parts last twice as long as a domestic then it's a wash. The last american car I owned was a Deville at 100,000 it was junk never again. I own a BMW motorcycle and love it so I started buying their cars wife now drives a X3 35I. BMW still hold true to rear wheel drive engine setup even with their all wheel drive vehicles.
 
As for leasing a car for personal use, that is the very definition of economically foolish. Simply because you pay a premium for not putting money down and the convenience of being able to move to something else in 30 to 36 months. The simple fact is buying the car and then selling it when done is cheaper than leasing. How can this be? Because that is exactly what a leasing company does and since the FMV of the car is the same regardless of first the operator’s status, and since leasing companies have to make profits, the profits can only come from lease payments.

Would you argue that leasing a personal vehicle is more economically foolish than owning a boat?

I fear this thread is just one short step away from me getting admonished for financing my boat. We need a portable generator thread ASAP.
 
As for leasing a car for personal use, that is the very definition of economically foolish. Simply because you pay a premium for not putting money down and the convenience of being able to move to something else in 30 to 36 months. The simple fact is buying the car and then selling it when done is cheaper than leasing. How can this be? Because that is exactly what a leasing company does and since the FMV of the car is the same regardless of first the operator’s status, and since leasing companies have to make profits, the profits can only come from lease payments.

The one exception to this I found is the Honda Civic. I lease them for my 3 daughters while they are in school. 12,000miles/yr for 3 years. Cost is $185/month, zero down at signing. That is exactly what the depreciation is. We get the piece of mind they have the latest safety equipment and reliable and cheap to operate.
 
I gather you don’t make capital expenditures decisions for a living. One of the first tests in determining the economic sense of the replacement of an asset is whether the cost to keep exceeds the cost to replace. When the replacement cost exceeds the cost to keep, additional benefits have to be established to offset the fact that the new item will cost more than maintaining the old one. These additional factors can be features that reduce the cost per item manufactured, maintain a higher production rate, or provide some new features that streamline the process. But since a personal car does not generate revenue, there is no economic value to replace a car when the replacement will cost more than the present ownership.

As for leasing a car for personal use, that is the very definition of economically foolish. Simply because you pay a premium for not putting money down and the convenience of being able to move to something else in 30 to 36 months. The simple fact is buying the car and then selling it when done is cheaper than leasing. How can this be? Because that is exactly what a leasing company does. A leasing company’s cost of capital is on par with individual buyers, and since the FMV of the car is the same regardless of first the operator’s status, and since leasing companies have to make profits, the profits can only come from lease payments.

No, I have a lot of experience advising clients on economic decisions, so its not lack of understanding or knowledge.
  • If you want to own a new car, you will buy one for that reason. It is not purely an economical decision. That is why people by new cars when their old one is perfectly fine.
  • After the warranty expires, the repairs on some of the German brands will be very high cost.
  • If I had to chose between a new Benz lease for $1400/mo or a 3yr old Benz that will "only" cost me $10,000/yr in repairs, the economic analysis would tell me I should get the used one. But the non-cash annoyance factors of having your car needing to go into service and paying exorbitant parts costs, would impact that decision.
  • That is why leasing, while more expensive than actual ownership during the warranty period, takes the variable nature out of your cost of ownership. If that car is a POS, you turn it in after the lease is up and try something else. But your cost of ownership is fixed. For the German brands, the fixed cost of a lease is a factor that is considered.
  • Like I said before, if you decide to own a BMW, Benz, Audi after the warranty period, you are taking a risk that the cost of repairs and the inconveniance will become a big issue. Maybe that applies to any older car, but lack of reliability and outlandish cost of parts for some of the German cars is an issue for me. (your experience may differ)
 
I drive a lot and never lease.... as Henry stated, better off to buy and sell.

I'm on my third full size pickup doing this... but have since switched to a company car and am selling the truck to grab the wife a small SUV.

'14 F150, '16 F150 and '19 Ram. F150s were traded in at 2 years with 60k miles for $10,000 less than I paid. No repairs or breakdowns. Well worth it in my book, especially since I had an allowance. Kept me in a brand new, fully loaded pickup.
 
Would you argue that leasing a personal vehicle is more economically foolish than owning a boat?

I fear this thread is just one short step away from me getting admonished for financing my boat. We need a portable generator thread ASAP.

Apples and oranges comparison. For most people a personal car is a tool to get themselves and their stuff from one place to the other. It would make sense to do that as economically as possible. Leasing an asset is always more expensive than debt financing unless there are factors to tip the scales in favor of leasing. In commercial leases these factors are typically shifting unused benefits of ownership like depreciation and resulting tax treatment. On a personal car lease there are no benefits as depreciation is meaningless and the tax treatment is the same. The only advantage of a personal lease is reduced down payment and the convenience of being able to move on easily.

Unless you are a commercial fisherman, a boat has no practical economic value. For me, and I assume others, boat ownership is a quality of life benefit. Boating is basically vacation. So the economic analysis is based on what you want to spend on your vacation time.
 
I'll add to the GMC voting. We are on our 4th Suburban, I have a 2012 2500HD and daily drive a 2017 Yukon. We've always had great luck with the 'burbans. Obviously bigger than you are talking, but the Denali packages are packed. I would have a hard time getting a Mercedes serviced where I live.
 
The one exception to this I found is the Honda Civic. I lease them for my 3 daughters while they are in school. 12,000miles/yr for 3 years. Cost is $185/month, zero down at signing. That is exactly what the depreciation is. We get the piece of mind they have the latest safety equipment and reliable and cheap to operate.

I am lucky...my wife loves Honda Civics...she buys them loaded with all options, puts 100,000 miles on them, and trades them in. Oil changes and tires and drive on....

Bennett
 
I don’t want to drive cars out of warranty so I stopped buying cars years ago. Repairs are way to expensive these days.
Three year leases serve me well. I get two for me and my wife to drive every 36 months. Our last few sets have been Chevys and we’ve had good luck with them.
No surprise repair bills. Nothing but oil/filter changes and no down time.
Peace of mind that I am glad to pay for.
I’ve had two recall type warranty issues in the last dozen or so years. Both times, I dropped the car off in the morning, they gave me a loaner, and I picked the car up later that day.
If I were to buy a car that would be out of warranty I would steer clear of Mercedes and BMW. They’re great cars until they need something. You can save a little on repairs with them by going to an independent shop to get them fixed, but chances are good that the guy has to get the parts from the dealer and they’re very expensive.
If I had to have a car that was going to be out of warranty it would be Japanese. They’re great cars too and won’t be as expensive to repair as the German cars.
 
I am lucky...my wife loves Honda Civics...she buys them loaded with all options, puts 100,000 miles on them, and trades them in. Oil changes and tires and drive on....

Bennett

Several of the guys I grew up with are in the automotive business. Either selling or fixing cars.
My one friend owned his own auto repair shop until he retired 3 years ago. In all the 35 or 40 years he was in business, the only brand of car that he never had to replace a motor in for a customer was Honda.
One of his sons worked with him for a number of years. He drove used Hondas until he got a good deal on a clean low mileage BMW. After having to pay for parts a few times for the BMW he sold it and got himself another Honda.
 
The one exception to this I found is the Honda Civic. I lease them for my 3 daughters while they are in school. 12,000miles/yr for 3 years. Cost is $185/month, zero down at signing. That is exactly what the depreciation is. We get the piece of mind they have the latest safety equipment and reliable and cheap to operate.

That’s where the premium for a lease is justified by the convenience from a lease agreement. Two lease terms and the kids are through school.
 
I mean...you're preaching about the economics of repairs on a site dedicated to a "not so low end" boat manufacturer. Total fiscal responsibility is a ship that sailed (great pun) for most of us many moons ago :):)

I have to be fiscally responsible in other areas of life so I can justify not being so for the boat. You know the saying,
I spent most of my money on boating --- the rest I wasted.

Another good thing about owning a boat is that you no longer need to drive on the road like a 90 year old to save gas, or shop for a car based on fuel economy. That would make us hypocrites.
 
That’s where the premium for a lease is justified by the convenience from a lease agreement. Two lease terms and the kids are through school.
If I was going to do it for 6 years I would have bought. All three girls only needed a car for 3 years as their first year the school wouldn't allow a car.
 

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