Engine Room Hatch problems on my 410DA

Swanny410

Swanny410

New Member
May 20, 2018
19
Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat Info
2000 410 Sundancer, 3116 Cats, Raymarine E120, Achilles 9.5 w/Johnson 15 hp.
Engines
Catapillar 3116’s with ZF Hurth transmissions
I am having problems with the lift system on my engine room hatch. I recently topped off the reservoir with Automatic transmission fluid (which it calls for) and now the hatch won't open until I pry it open with a crow bar. Once I get it up about 2 inches, it will raise all of the way. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
 
Swanny410 said:
I am having problems with the lift system on my engine room hatch. I recently topped off the reservoir with Automatic transmission fluid (which it calls for) and now the hatch won't open until I pry it open with a crow bar. Once I get it up about 2 inches, it will raise all of the way. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
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It sounds like you're saying it was fine until you added fluid?

What does the motor sound like during those first couple of inches compared the rest of the time?
 
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It was working fine, but the fluid level was really low. I was worried that it wouldn't open if I didn't add fluid. The motor is different "weak sounding" in the first couple of inches.
 
OK, I have not physically worked on your particular hyd motor, but... often times hyd motors have two "full lines" - or at least a "normal zone". Meaning, when the hatch is lifted, much of the fluid is being used to extend the ram. The true reading could be when the ram is retracted - but that would mean you would have to be in the bilge with the hatch closed, of course. If the only thing that has changed is that you added fluid (and didn't bump any electrical connections that may have already been suspect), it might just be too full. If no one chimes in with a more definitive answer, try removing some fluid - you know that it worked at the level you had before.
 
I think Boat Guy may be on to something. The service manual shows that to be a 12v actuator with a 1000 lb lifting capacity.
 
Boat Guy said:
Is the lift system for the hatch is different in the 410 than the 400? If not, it's not a hydraulic lift, so I'm not sure what reservoir you are putting fluid in.
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I was kinda wondering the same thing, but I figured he'd know better than me! Or maybe a different system was installed?
 
My system does not appear to be factory installed. Here are a couple of pictures.
 

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Boat Guy said:
The only hydraulic reservoir on my vessel is for the trim tabs.
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This is the same with my 2000 410. Electrically operated via 12v actuator mounted to the engine room floor. Only reservoir is the trim tabs on mine as well. That hatch is a heavy SOB and is a lot of work for the actuator.
 
Swanny410 said:
My system does not appear to be factory installed. Here are a couple of pictures.
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It does look like you have hydraulic lines going to the lifters. The pump in your pic is a Bennett trim tab pump, but if you followed the lines and they go the lifters, then someone simply bought it and used it to power the lifters.

I can't say exactly how your system compares to a trim tab system, but this is what Bennett says for tabs: "With trim tabs completely retracted, fluid level should be about 2 inches from bottom of reservoir (approximately 22 ounces)."

Again, try taking some fluid back out. And/or check all electrical connections for clean/tight/corrosion free and not (partially) broken.
 
I am pretty sure the pictures show the trim tab reservoir, not the hatch lift. My hatch lift has no reservoir. If the hatch lift is slow or non-working, my guess would be the batteries are low on juice or charger is off.
 
Swanny410 said:
My system does not appear to be factory installed. Here are a couple of pictures.
Click to expand...

No, it most certainly does not....

I would look into replacing that with the OEM style system. Perhaps someone here will chime in with more experience than me, but I don't think that pump is rated for that load. I wouldn't want a failure of that system while someone was down in there. There is about no chance of getting that hatch up if you were to get trapped in there. I would have that hatch supported by a 4x4 if I was in there.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I would think if it's working once you get it up a certain amount, either the load is too heavy or perhaps air in the system.

Further, if you search on the forum, I think there is a thread by someone who sourced a cheaper actuator than going through SeaRay

Second edit:

After looking at your photos enlarged so I can see the detail, it looks like your original trim tab pump system might have failed and isn't connected anymore. It's located in the bilge, centered on the aft wall between the motors and can be seen in your image. Is that still functional? Also, in that picture I see your hydraulic lines off the lifts and it seems to be T-ed, which leads me to believe this forward Bennett system is also the pump for the trim tabs. I'm not suggesting that the person didn't know what he was doing, but once again, personally, I'd be a bit concerned...
 
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The hydraulic actuator system you have is not OEM from Sea Ray but is a commercially available hydraulic hatch actuator sold by Bennett (the trim tab people). If you look at their website, you will see this system for sale. It is used by several boat manufacturers. While I don’t know what it’s capacity rating is vs your hatch weight, it’s entirely possible it’s appropriate for the task.

I have a hinged arch that utilizes the same actuators and pump and it works great. Conversely, my electric Acculift hatch actuators are “less great” lately and probably due for a rebuild...if I can find a Bennett actuator system with sufficient capacity, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it.

Yes, hydraulics can fail—but so do gear teeth in the electric ones. Neither is fail-safe by any stretch. In short, I always deploy the “emergency stop arm” when the hatch is up and someone would be in the path of the hatch falling.
 
It's definitely different than mine, but stephenm27 makes since to me. I doubt this is your problem because you stated it was working fine until you added oil, but I spray lubricate on mine every few weeks while checking my fluid levels. I had a problem with the vent window on my 310 not opening at all one weekend and was going to buy a new actuator but found out it was just dry. Sprayed some lubricate on it and never had another problem. Good Luck and hope it's a simple fix.
 
Whelp....since nobody but the OP is sharing pictures :)

Here's what your factory installed lift likely looked like. Electric:
49127196286_53cca910a4_c.jpg
 
Thanks very much to all of you for your advice! I am headed down to the boat now to try and remove some of the fluid and check over the electrical connections. Hopefully, this will fix the problem!
 
Swanny410 said:
Thanks very much to all of you for your advice! I am headed down to the boat now to try and remove some of the fluid and check over the electrical connections.
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You might find the schematics for the various installation methods of the hydraulics helpful in your diagnostics:

https://bennetttrimtabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hatch_Lifters_All_Diagrams.pdf

It provides graphics that detail the various installation scenarios for their actuators and pumps (ie where the same trim tab pump is utilized for hatch lifting and tabs, where you have a separate pump from your trim tabs, etc).
 
Boat Guy said:
After looking at your photos enlarged so I can see the detail, it looks like your original trim tab pump system might have failed and isn't connected anymore. It's located in the bilge, centered on the aft wall between the motors and can be seen in your image. Is that still functional? Also, in that picture I see your hydraulic lines off the lifts and it seems to be T-ed, which leads me to believe this forward Bennett system is also the pump for the trim tabs. I'm not suggesting that the person didn't know what he was doing, but once again, personally, I'd be a bit concerned...
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I think I can see the translucent reservoir you are talking about, although it looks differently shaped than a normal Bennett reservoir. Also... the motor (with wires/hyd lines) is blocked from view... what are you seeing that shows it's no longer hooked up?

The T'd items at his hyd lift rams appear to be the T's to split the line from the pump to each hyd ram.
 
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