500/520 DB official thread

Has anyone else replaced their Vessel View? Seaboard Marine has an article (see below link) about the lack of support with the Smart Craft/Cummins system suggesting it is overly complicated to trouble shoot and not stable in the marine environment. I suspect they are promoting replacement system, SMX System but maybe there is some merit to it. The article also says there are conflicts with the upgrade.

Jeremy have you or anyone else had conflicts with this upgrade?

http://www.sbmar.com/cummins-dieselview-display-upgrades/

Side note - I do have a intermittent issue with the starboard engine dropping the gauges while running but more often the starboard engine cuts off a minute or two after start up.
A bit about Smartcraft with the Cummins QSM11's and why not to change:
The Mercury Smartcraft network is a composite of three data networks and other power and discrete conductors all collected in a standard Smartcraft connector. The three Control Area Networks (CAN) are CAN H, CAN P, and CAN 3. CAN H (H is for HULL) is denoted as CAN 1 and CAN P (P is for Propulsion) is denoted as CAN 2; so, keep this in mind when reading documentation as they interchange the terms. Each CAN is simply a twisted pair of wires.
A bit about the network infrastructure:
  • CAN 2 - The Engine ECM data streams are SAE J1939 which is the standard for trucks, busses and diesel heavy machinery. The Mercury Smartcraft CAN 2 is SAE J1939. The engine ECM's are uniquely programmed to be a specific "instance" on the network so common data (like oil pressure) is not confused between the two engines on the same network. Typically the Port engine is instance '0' and starboard engine is instance '1'. CAN 2 is pins G and H on all of the Smartcraft standard connectors. CAN 2 is specific to engine data and does not include sensors on the gears, fuel levels, paddle wheels, etc.
  • CAN 1 - There are other data the Mercury Smartcraft system integrates into the boat's instrumentation. CAN 1 is on pins 'J' and 'K' on the Smartcraft connectors. CAN 1 provides this data through two modules known as System Integration Modules or SIM's. There is a SIM on each engine. The engine SIM's provide monitor and control of the gear solenoids, Gear Oil Pressure, Gear Oil Temperature, Exhaust overtemp switch, Fuel Tank Level, Steering Angle, Paddlewheel data, and depth transducer. The SIM's convert voltage and resistance from the sensors to a data stream. Several of these capabilities (paddlewheel, depth xdcr, and steering angle) are not used for our boats. These SIM's are uniquely programmed for the instance (port or starboard) they are installed so common data is not confused. As an FYI a new replacement engine SIM is programmed simply by cycling the engine ignition on and off slowly two times.
  • CAN 3 - This is an outlier on the network and is not used unless you have a Onan generator with a Network Interface Module (NIM) installed. CAN 3 is on pins 'C' and 'D' on the Smartcraft connector. CAN 3 is only used for generator data and only integrated with Diesel View; the transition to Vessel View no longer supports CAN 3 and if you had generator data on your Diesel View then changed to a Vessel View you will no longer be able to view the generator.
  • C-Cruise, Engine Sync, and Slow Idle - The helm controls for C-Cruise, Engine Sync, and Slow Idle are integrated into the CAN 1 and CAN 2 via a little box under the helm called the Smart Multiplex Module or SMM. The SMM connects to the Smartcraft network through a standard Smartcraft plug. This installation provides instructions to the engine ECM's for these functions as well as providing confirmation of the commands from the ECM's via the lamps on the switches.
  • Diesel View, Vessel View, and Smartcraft Gauges - To start with the Smartcraft gauges above the helm will not operate without a connected Diesel View or Vessel View display; the display provides the Smartcraft digital gauges their unique data stream and power to operate. Be aware that the latest Vessel View (which I believe VV9) is not compatible with Smartcraft gauges so stick with VV7 if you want the gauges above the helm to work. The Diesel View or Vessel View provide the user a capability to monitor most of the data on the CAN networks as well as many other navigational features should it be appropriately integrated to either NMEA 0183 or NMEA 2000. I only use my Vessel View to monitor engine, gear, and fuel. Again, Vessel View does not integrate CAN 3 and as such generator data is not available.
  • Engine Throttles - The engine throttles are not integrated into the Smartcraft network nor Smartcraft harnesses. There two unique harness's that are routed from the helm to the engine's main harness and the throttle potentiometers and switches are directly integrated into the engine ECM's via those copper paths.
Now, with all due respect to Tony Athens I do not agree that a transition to their SMX is the appropriate direction for upgrading our vessels simply due to the fact that our gauges, Engine Sync, C-Cruise, Slow Idle, fuel levels, gear oil pressure, gear oil temperature, and exhaust overtemp will no longer be there. Essentially the SMX only integrates the CAN 2 data (J1939) maybe completely or maybe partially; I don't know. The SMX integrates into the Smartcraft harness at pins 'J' and 'K' or CAN 2 and probably gets it's power and ignition on signal from the Smartcraft harness as well.
As an Edit - my boat was upgraded from a Diesel View to Vessel View 7. The great thing about the VV7 is there is a NMEA 2000 port on it so all of the data the VV7 collects can be shared on other MFD's and displays. The not-so-great thing is CAN 3 is not supported as explained above. So, my boat has two Garmin 8616's and a Maretron DM410 that are all on the NMEA 2000 network; I have visibility to the Smartcraft CAN 1 and CAN 2 data on these displays through the connection to the NMEA 2000 port on the VV7. If you have Raymarine E series or later then that same data is viewable through the Seatalkng port on the displays. As long as the CAN 1 and CAN 2 data can be converted to an available PGN (NMEA 2000 data protocol) then the data is available on the NMEA 2000 network. Conversely, your VV7 can also display and integrate the NMEA 2000 data like GPS and Navigation should you desire. With regards to the Generator data - As my Onan MDBKN generator has a NIM installed and integrated originally with Diesel View, I can no longer see the generator's data. To get around this I installed a Maretron J2K100 J1939 to NMEA 2000 converter then modified the generator's NIM to talk J1939 rather than Smartcraft CAN3. This modification is simply cutting the W2 jumper on the NIM board then pull the CAN3 wires from the Smartcraft harness and connect them to the Maretron J2K100 J1939 port. A caution here is the data can be rather unstable on the J2K100 if you should program yourself, which I did. Maretron has a J2K100 that they specifically program for the Onan Generators that resolves the stability issue. Now that I have changed from Raymarine MFD's to Garmin MFD there is a J1939 port on the displays so I'm considering directly connecting CAN 3 from the modified generator NIM to the Garmin J1939 port which should work just fine....
 
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A bit about Smartcraft with the Cummins QSM11's and why not to change:
The Mercury Smartcraft network is a composite of three data networks and other power and discrete conductors all collected in a standard Smartcraft connector. The three Control Area Networks (CAN) are CAN H, CAN P, and CAN 3. CAN H (H is for HULL) is denoted as CAN 1 and CAN P (P is for Propulsion) is denoted as CAN 2; so, keep this in mind when reading documentation as they interchange the terms. Each CAN is simply a twisted pair of wires.
A bit about the network infrastructure:
  • CAN 2 - The Engine ECM data streams are SAE J1939 which is the standard for trucks, busses and diesel heavy machinery. The Mercury Smartcraft CAN 2 is SAE J1939. The engine ECM's are uniquely programmed to be a specific "instance" on the network so common data (like oil pressure) is not confused between the two engines on the same network. Typically the Port engine is instance '0' and starboard engine is instance '1'. CAN 2 is pins G and H on all of the Smartcraft standard connectors. CAN 2 is specific to engine data and does not include sensors on the gears, fuel levels, paddle wheels, etc.
  • CAN 1 - There are other data the Mercury Smartcraft system integrates into the boat's instrumentation. CAN 1 is on pins 'J' and 'K' on the Smartcraft connectors. CAN 1 provides this data through two modules known as System Integration Modules or SIM's. There is a SIM on each engine. The engine SIM's provide monitor and control of the gear solenoids, Gear Oil Pressure, Gear Oil Temperature, Exhaust overtemp switch, Fuel Tank Level, Steering Angle, Paddlewheel data, and depth transducer. The SIM's convert voltage and resistance from the sensors to a data stream. Several of these capabilities (paddlewheel, depth xdcr, and steering angle) are not used for our boats. These SIM's are uniquely programmed for the instance (port or starboard) they are installed so common data is not confused. As an FYI a new replacement engine SIM is programmed simply by cycling the engine ignition on and off slowly two times.
  • CAN 3 - This is an outlier on the network and is not used unless you have a Onan generator with a Network Interface Module (NIM) installed. CAN 3 is on pins 'C' and 'D' on the Smartcraft connector. CAN 3 is only used for generator data and only integrated with Diesel View; the transition to Vessel View no longer supports CAN 3 and if you had generator data on your Diesel View then changed to a Vessel View you will no longer be able to view the generator.
  • C-Cruise, Engine Sync, and Slow Idle - The helm controls for C-Cruise, Engine Sync, and Slow Idle are integrated into the CAN 1 and CAN 2 via a little box under the helm called the Smart Multiplex Module or SMM. The SMM connects to the Smartcraft network through a standard Smartcraft plug. This installation provides instructions to the engine ECM's for these functions as well as providing confirmation of the commands from the ECM's via the lamps on the switches.
  • Diesel View, Vessel View, and Smartcraft Gauges - To start with the Smartcraft gauges above the helm will not operate without a connected Diesel View or Vessel View display; the display provides the Smartcraft digital gauges their unique data stream and power to operate. Be aware that the latest Vessel View (which I believe VV9) is not compatible with Smartcraft gauges so stick with VV7 if you want the gauges above the helm to work. The Diesel View or Vessel View provide the user a capability to monitor most of the data on the CAN networks as well as many other navigational features should it be appropriately integrated to either NMEA 0183 or NMEA 2000. I only use my Vessel View to monitor engine, gear, and fuel. Again, Vessel View does not integrate CAN 3 and as such generator data is not available.
  • Engine Throttles - The engine throttles are not integrated into the Smartcraft network nor Smartcraft harnesses. There two unique harness's that are routed from the helm to the engine's main harness and the throttle potentiometers and switches are directly integrated into the engine ECM's via those copper paths.
Now, with all due respect to Tony Athens I do not agree that a transition to their SMX is the appropriate direction for upgrading our vessels simply due to the fact that our gauges, Engine Sync, C-Cruise, Slow Idle, fuel levels, gear oil pressure, gear oil temperature, and exhaust overtemp will no longer be there. Essentially the SMX only integrates the CAN 2 data (J1939) maybe completely or maybe partially; I don't know. The SMX integrates into the Smartcraft harness at pins 'J' and 'K' or CAN 2 and probably gets it's power and ignition on signal from the Smartcraft harness as well.
As an Edit - my boat was upgraded from a Diesel View to Vessel View 7. The great thing about the VV7 is there is a NMEA 2000 port on it so all of the data the VV7 collects can be shared on other MFD's and displays. The not-so-great thing is CAN 3 is not supported as explained above. So, my boat has two Garmin 8616's and a Maretron DM410 that are all on the NMEA 2000 network; I have visibility to the Smartcraft CAN 1 and CAN 2 data on these displays through the connection to the NMEA 2000 port on the VV7. If you have Raymarine E series or later then that same data is viewable through the Seatalkng port on the displays. As long as the CAN 1 and CAN 2 data can be converted to an available PGN (NMEA 2000 data protocol) then the data is available on the NMEA 2000 network. Conversely, your VV7 can also display and integrate the NMEA 2000 data like GPS and Navigation should you desire. With regards to the Generator data - As my Onan MDBKN generator has a NIM installed and integrated originally with Diesel View, I can no longer see the generator's data. To get around this I installed a Maretron J2K100 J1939 to NMEA 2000 converter then modified the generator's NIM to talk J1939 rather than Smartcraft CAN3. This modification is simply cutting the W2 jumper on the NIM board then pull the CAN3 wires from the Smartcraft harness and connect them to the Maretron J2K100 J1939 port. A caution here is the data can be rather unstable on the J2K100 if you should program yourself, which I did. Maretron has a J2K100 that they specifically program for the Onan Generators that resolves the stability issue. Now that I have changed from Raymarine MFD's to Garmin MFD there is a J1939 port on the displays so I'm considering directly connecting CAN 3 from the modified generator NIM to the Garmin J1939 port which should work just fine....

Yep, the "twisted sisters". Excellent post!
 
update:
Realized the bridge a/c system is the same as the salon. So I pulled the logic/mother board from the bridge and swapped it into the salon. Bingo. Salon a/c now works. Will send out the salon mother board to flight systems for repair.

I’ll tell ya what, if it wasn’t for this forum I would never be able to figure anything out.

All you guys are the best....

thanks,

Steve

Steve:
Did you have the board repaired by Flight Systems? If so how did that work out? I replaced a Dometic board this year that was not putting out the correct voltage to the reversing solenoid. The new board was $350-$400 but did the trick. I did wonder if there was another alternative such as sending it out.

Also love this board, much more activity than the Regal board I was on previously.
 
I haven't sent the board out yet as I don't use the A/C on the bridge. But it will shortly.
As soon as I do, I'll let you know.
 
Agreed, knowing Cummins calls for a 500hr service interval I figured every other year would be good considering it would be 4 years before I hit that mark.

Which fluid are you guys using for the ZF Transmissions?
 
Which fluid are you guys using for the ZF Transmissions?
I use Royal Purple 30w oil. They are the only company that makes a straight 30w synthetic oil that I know and I prefer to use synthetic oils.
 
Is everyone's dinghy up tight almost against the transom locker? Can the davits be pushed "sternward" enough to make the locker accessible? Curious. It's why we never use the locker.

On our last boat we added the Seaweed Dingy Lift system. Really worked well and it can be mounted/extended out off the platform to gain more use of the platform. We didn't extend it too far on the Regal because of weight. They are removable and you can add an electric lift.

https://seaweedmarine.com

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Which fluid are you guys using for the ZF Transmissions?
Per ZF TE-ML 04 any one of the following:
SAE 30 or SAE 40 for hot areas
SAE 5W-40
SAE 10W-40
SAE 15W-40
I use Rotella SAE 15W-40 in the engines so also use Rotella SAE 15W-40 in the gears.
FYI - I also install Fleetguard LF-701 Filters.
 
Per ZF TE-ML 04 any one of the following:
SAE 30 or SAE 40 for hot areas
SAE 5W-40
SAE 10W-40
SAE 15W-40
I use Rotella SAE 15W-40 in the engines so also use Rotella SAE 15W-40 in the gears.
FYI - I also install Fleetguard LF-701 Filters.

thank you...good idea! I took ownership this summer and not exactly sure which oil is in our Transmissions however I did notice the Gear Pressure gauge was bumping in the red but never stayed in the red. As I recall it hovers around that high mark.

With the 15w-40 do you recall where your gear pressure was?
 
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I believe I use the Rotella straight 30 in the trans same filters
All lab reports are excellent in 4 years
 
Has anyone changed the blowers to Jasbsco squirrel cage blowers? I wanted to do this to quiet them down but I have 14awg wiring going to the blowers and a 7.5amp breaker to run them. Others have said change out the breaker but 14awg is not large enough to run 12amps that the blowers require.
Also there is a blower control box that looks like it is tied to the fire control system and wires into and out of that are all 14awg so I am not sure that unit could handle the extra amps.
My thought is to put an additional 15amp breaker in the panel and run 10awg wire direct to the blowers and put a relay to control them off the original wiring/switches system. I was wondering if anyone else had a better idea or figured something else out.
 
Has anyone changed the blowers to Jasbsco squirrel cage blowers? I wanted to do this to quiet them down but I have 14awg wiring going to the blowers and a 7.5amp breaker to run them. Others have said change out the breaker but 14awg is not large enough to run 12amps that the blowers require.
Also there is a blower control box that looks like it is tied to the fire control system and wires into and out of that are all 14awg so I am not sure that unit could handle the extra amps.
My thought is to put an additional 15amp breaker in the panel and run 10awg wire direct to the blowers and put a relay to control them off the original wiring/switches system. I was wondering if anyone else had a better idea or figured something else out.

I did and with 15 amp circuit breakers (there are two) and found the wire gauge adequate - it is less than 30 feet. Each fan which has a unique wire run from the controller does not in it's self come close to 15 amps.
 
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I did replace the gray water sump with a Whale sump and pump, which in 1000% better than the originals.

Can you share some pictures and details of the Whale Sump setup?
 
Can you share some pictures and details of the Whale Sump setup?

Here you go. It has never leaked or gotten clogged. I do pour some white vinegar down the drain if we are going to be away from the boat for a while, and I vacuum it out with a shop vac at the end of the summer.

I had to use a couple of 1" to 1/2" hose adapters for the HVAC condensate.

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Here you go. It has never leaked or gotten clogged. I do pour some white vinegar down the drain if we are going to be away from the boat for a while, and I vacuum it out with a shop vac at the end of the summer.

I had to use a couple of 1" to 1/2" hose adapters for the HVAC condensate.

View attachment 77703 View attachment 77704 View attachment 77705

my buddy did the same install on his 52 and no problems all season long. I’m looking into doing the same I really like the external pump idea.
 
I have already changed all the lights and fixtures on the boat to LED, changed the nav and stern lights to LED, added LED lights to the engine room

Jeremy:
Do you have any pics or specs of the LED Lights you used for the Salon Recess Lights, Cockpit Large Recess Lights and Engine Compartment? Are you pleased with each of them? The salon recess lights (at least mine) have a small reflector that would need to be modified or I think someone else replaced the trim all together.

Anyway, any info you can share would be appreciated.
 
Jeremy:
Do you have any pics or specs of the LED Lights you used for the Salon Recess Lights, Cockpit Large Recess Lights and Engine Compartment? Are you pleased with each of them? The salon recess lights (at least mine) have a small reflector that would need to be modified or I think someone else replaced the trim all together.

Anyway, any info you can share would be appreciated.
I put 4 of these on my engine room. Super bright!
https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Lighting-Waterproof-Exterior-9-84inch/dp/B00ODSBXB0
 
Jeremy:
Do you have any pics or specs of the LED Lights you used for the Salon Recess Lights, Cockpit Large Recess Lights and Engine Compartment? Are you pleased with each of them? The salon recess lights (at least mine) have a small reflector that would need to be modified or I think someone else replaced the trim all together.

Anyway, any info you can share would be appreciated.

Sorry for the delay, I was traveling last week so it was a busy week.
For the cabin lights I used these from Amazon. I had to trim the pins a bit s they would sit far enough in the lamp to not hit the lens but they work great once I did that.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CPP7HRC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For the Cockpit lights I used these Blue/White light bulbs from Superbriteled.com. I wish they were a bit brighter but they are brighter than the incandescents I took out.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...-pin-led-disc-15w-equivalent-130-lumens/3575/

For the engine room I used these LED light bars. I replaced the factory fluorescent lights as well as added another 8 of these bars down the middle of the engine room as well so it is very bright now to work on things. My only complaint with these lights is I found I had to be careful of the end caps because they are brittle and could break easily while installing them

https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...power-led-waterproof-light-fixtures/622/2907/
 

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