The Pendulum Is Still Swinging, and it scares me.

What we have now has been brewing for over 50yrs. The kids are a product of the environment created/influenced by adults. I don't mean just at home...the schools, media, Hollywood, TV, Washington. When you fill them full of shit what should you expect out of them, and then they have kids...
 
bobeast said:
Idiotic Entitlement Program
Click to expand...
Please do not refer to an individual education plan like this. My six year old son who is smart as a whip,bilingual, empathetic ,well mannered, kind and also has an autism spectrum diagnoses and an IEP that includes supports specific to supporting his needs in a system designed for the average or majority of students..
 
Handsome Transom said:
Please do not refer to an individual education plan like this. My six year old son who is smart as a whip,bilingual, empathetic ,well mannered, kind and also has an autism spectrum diagnoses and an IEP that includes supports specific to supporting his needs in a system designed for the average or majority of students..
Click to expand...

I'm sure the program does actually help many individuals who need and deserve it. I was referring to the idiocy in the program that allows many to game the system. That said, I take your point, and I apologize for my use of such a broad brush.
 
GFC,

I believe the media has a lot to do with what is happening today. They are propagandist and typically hold a leftist position.....and yes, it is difficult to keep politics out of this conversation, because when you have a media who portrays police officers as racists toward minorities , spurred on by politicians (the cop acted stupidly - hands up, don't shoot), this is exactly what it becomes, political.

Before Trump came to Minneapolis, if you remember, the local Mayor Jacob Frey, 1st said he wasn't welcome, then told Trump that he needed to pay for all of the local police to protect Minneapolis residence. Protect the residence from what? (that's rhetorical). He basically sounded the horn for violence - and guess what - he got what he wanted. For two weeks prior to the convention, the media ran with this fake drama.

After the Trump convention ended, people were assaulted by ANTIFA & BLM as they were coming out. ANTIFA waiving the Soviet Flag no less. Barriers where throw into cars and moved into the middle of the street - throwing of 'piss bombs' at people and officers - punching people - stealing MAGA hats by slapping or punching people in the backs of theirs heads and burning them in the street, while officers watched.

Who gave the order to 'watch'? (another rhetorical question) We also had a local representative "Aisha Gomez" who was in a black hoody protesting with these thugs. She bragged that she was directly in touch with the Mayor Jacob Frey.

I'll bet maybe only a few of you heard or read about this. Our media do a complete disservice to this country.
 
OllieC said:
GFC,

I believe the media has a lot to do with what is happening today. They are propagandist and typically hold a leftist position.....and yes, it is difficult to keep politics out of this conversation, because when you have a media who portrays police officers as racists toward minorities , spurred on by politicians (the cop acted stupidly - hands up, don't shoot), this is exactly what it becomes, political.

Before Trump came to Minneapolis, if you remember, the local Mayor Jacob Frey, 1st said he wasn't welcome, then told Trump that he needed to pay for all of the local police to protect Minneapolis residence. Protect the residence from what? (that's rhetorical). He basically sounded the horn for violence - and guess what - he got what he wanted. For two weeks prior to the convention, the media ran with this fake drama.

After the Trump convention ended, people were assaulted by ANTIFA & BLM as they were coming out. ANTIFA waiving the Soviet Flag no less. Barriers where throw into cars and moved into the middle of the street - throwing of 'piss bombs' at people and officers - punching people - stealing MAGA hats by slapping or punching people in the backs of theirs heads and burning them in the street, while officers watched.

Who gave the order to 'watch'? (another rhetorical question) We also had a local representative "Aisha Gomez" who was in a black hoody protesting with these thugs. She bragged that she was directly in touch with the Mayor Jacob Frey.

I'll bet maybe only a few of you heard or read about this. Our media do a complete disservice to this country.
Click to expand...

Need more Mayors like old man Daley.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156496204463338
 
Handsome Transom said:
Please do not refer to an individual education plan like this. My six year old son who is smart as a whip,bilingual, empathetic ,well mannered, kind and also has an autism spectrum diagnoses and an IEP that includes supports specific to supporting his needs in a system designed for the average or majority of students..
Click to expand...
I have a brother with Down Syndrome and I didn't take any offense or was triggered by "Idiotic Entitlement Program". My brother is just 2 years behind me so I saw a lot growing up in school... then I saw how things have changed today when my own kids went thru school and how these IEP's (as I just learned the short form) are being misused or forced on a young person that can't function in a classroom setting... so when I see "Idiotic" the first thing I think of is the government or the school board screwed up again.
 
Last edited:
Gofirstclass said:
Boatman therein lies one of the biggest problems with today's "I want it all and I want it now" society.

Nobody wants to work for anything any more. I left home at 15, never been unemployed, never been on welfare or assistance of any kind. I recognize that many people are in bad situations through no fault of their own.

OTOH, many choose that lifestyle.
Click to expand...

GFC. I am similar to you except I moved out at 23 BUT I paid rent for my room from the time I was 18 till I moved. Never been unemployed or took any assistance of any kind. Worked hard to get where I am today.
 
Last night I found myself at home alone as my wife was on business travel. As I was looking for something to watch on TV I stumbled across that reality show, "Below Deck". I rarely watch these types of shows but hey....there were boats and cleavage involved so I tuned in for a bit. There was 1 female millennial steward/deck hand that was complaining about all of the work that needed to be done. She stated she was going to "quit" because there were too many rules and she said....and I quote, "I don't do rules." I realize some of this was for the drama but that statement is what is seriously wrong with our country and society.

Somewhere along the line someone decided that its OK to not follow rules, not obey police commands, not listen to teachers, not learn how to lose and generally not do anything you don't feel like doing. I'm 69 years old and hopefully have 20-25 years left and I'll probably survive what ever comes along but I am truly worried for my children and grandchildren.

During the late '60s and early '70s we questioned authority and even rioted. There were race riots and hippie riots. Some were violent. But the police weren't ambushed and murdered. Rocks and bottles were thrown but I don't remember the blatant, illogical disrespect for rules and authority that we see today. And the sad thing is that even many of the "good" and "rational-thinking" teens are being caught up in it. I have a 17 year old granddaughter who has parents in law enforcement. She does not feel or believe the way most of her peers do but she tells me the pressure is tremendous.

And whoever said the media is to blame for a major part of it is so correct. The other thing that has exacerbated the situation is that everyone has a camera in their hand and access to instant social media. I believe the worst thing we have done in the past 20 years is put cameras in cell phones. And the media takes the video content, edits it for the best reaction and goes live.

Trying not to make this Right vs. Left or a race issue but I also believe the last administration was to blame for the rapid escalation of the situation. As soon as he publicly stated, "Trevon Martin could have been my son" he garnered wide-spread sympathy for Martin. Martin would be alive if he had complied with commands. Add to that someone decided it was "News" and the fuse was lit.

As an example....In March of 2018 in Sacramento, CA, 2 police officers (1 white, 1 black) shot and killed an unarmed suspect that was eluding them. The initial call came in as, "....an individual breaking car windows." The suspect, a 22 year old black male, Stephon Clark, was tracked from above by a police helicopter with infrared sensing cameras. The entire incident was captured with body cameras. My son is a 24-year veteran of the Sacramento Sheriff's Dept. and currently assigned to their SWAT team. I lived in Sacramento area 2 different times for a total of 14 years so I was particularly interested in this incident.

I heard and watched the body cam footage and when police told him to halt and show his hands he is clearly heard to say "Fuck You." In a dark rear yard of his grandmother's home police found him, ordered him to, "Show me your hands! Gun! Gun!" twice before he turned and was shot 7 times by the officers. Irrelevant or not, Clark was a convicted felon, on probation for 2 domestic violence convictions and one for assault with a deadly weapon.

My point in this was the reactions. Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg was quoted as saying after watching the body cam footage that the videos made him feel "really sick" and that the shooting was "wrong." Nancy Pelosi stated, Clark "should be alive today" and Reverend Al Sharpton said he was alarmed at the story and that it was not receiving enough press coverage. Two days later BLM stages a protest blocking Interstate 5 in Sacramento.

One week after the shooting during a Sacramento Kings-Boston Celtics NBA game the players wore shirts with the words, "Accountability" and "We Are One" during warm up the national anthem. Later that year a lawsuit was filed on behalf of Clark's 2 illegitimate, preschool sons seeking $20 million The city settled for $2.4 million and the 2 boys will each receive $900,000 when they reach the age of 22. $900,000 because Dad was a habitual criminal, wife-beater and drug user! I don't see much of a case here for following the rules.

Below is a link to the Wikipedia story of the incident. Wiki is usually pretty neutral but even they left out some details.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Stephon_Clark

So you have a mayor that does not back his police force, outside protestors, and alleged NBA "roll models" all saying the police were wrong before any investigation. Because its news, the media reports it using an edited version of the body cam footage. FYI The officers we cleared and no charges were filed.

Sorry for the long post but something does need to be done. Mike, in your original post you ask what can be done. IMHO everyone needs to stop being so damn sensitive. I got picked on in school....everyone did. None of us wanted to jump off a cliff or eat a bullet. We never labeled anyone a bully. If we got picked on we fought back. Sometimes I got my ass kicked....sometimes I kicked ass. We were taught to respect authority and to comply. When I got stopped by the cops I did what I was told. We need to somehow get back to this type of thinking. If anyone is still reading this at this point I thank you for indulging me.
Shawn
 
Last edited:
I too come from a family of law enforcement. My grandfather ans uncle were police officers, my brother-in-law still is, my step-son is a detective and I used to be a state constable. A few years ago there was a drive-by shooting in Pittsburgh that was caught on camera and witnessed. The 'victim' fired back and shot out the back window of the car. An officer saw the car and initiated a stop. The passenger took off running. Now remember the back window was shot out and there was known to be a gun in the car. The officer yelled for the kid to stop and shot him (supposedly in the back). The officer said he saw what looked like a gun in his hand. The kid did not have a gun in his hand and died. The kid was later ID'd as the one that fired the shots in the drive-by. The officer was fired and charged with homicide, which hew was later found not guilty. The media said the kid was an honor student and showed interviews with school officials saying what a good kid he was and that he volunteered for different organizations. These clips were all over the local news but those interviewed must have forgot that 5 minutes before he was shot and killed that he shot and tried to kill another person.

To compare, another local officer was in a foot pursuit and seen on camera about 5' behind the suspect. As soon as they turned the corner the officer was shot and killed (all on camera). The moral of these 2 stories is apparently the media would rather have law enforcement wait until they are shot before returning fire and hope the suspect is a bad shot.

Story #1 > https://www.post-gazette.com/news/c...e-by-victim-tells-police/stories/201903010161

Story #2 > https://triblive.com/local/valley-n...haw-was-shot-testifies-during-trials-2nd-day/

In both cases if the suspects had obeyed commands nobody would be dead.
 
Handsome Transom said:
Please do not refer to an individual education plan like this. My six year old son who is smart as a whip,bilingual, empathetic ,well mannered, kind and also has an autism spectrum diagnoses and an IEP that includes supports specific to supporting his needs in a system designed for the average or majority of students..
Click to expand...
This! Thank you
 
Handsome Transom said:
This was how I interpreted the comment as well. Bob has apologized though and I am satisfied with that.
Click to expand...
Thanks Bob. I’ve seen abuse with IEP’s too. It gives the kids that need one a bad name. Even though she’s on the spectrum she still needs to work. My wife and I make sure she’s (and my other kid) not entitled.
Cheers fellas
 
boatman37 said:
I too come from a family of law enforcement. My grandfather ans uncle were police officers, my brother-in-law still is, my step-son is a detective and I used to be a state constable. A few years ago there was a drive-by shooting in Pittsburgh that was caught on camera and witnessed. The 'victim' fired back and shot out the back window of the car. An officer saw the car and initiated a stop. The passenger took off running. Now remember the back window was shot out and there was known to be a gun in the car. The officer yelled for the kid to stop and shot him (supposedly in the back). The officer said he saw what looked like a gun in his hand. The kid did not have a gun in his hand and died. The kid was later ID'd as the one that fired the shots in the drive-by. The officer was fired and charged with homicide, which hew was later found not guilty. The media said the kid was an honor student and showed interviews with school officials saying what a good kid he was and that he volunteered for different organizations. These clips were all over the local news but those interviewed must have forgot that 5 minutes before he was shot and killed that he shot and tried to kill another person.

To compare, another local officer was in a foot pursuit and seen on camera about 5' behind the suspect. As soon as they turned the corner the officer was shot and killed (all on camera). The moral of these 2 stories is apparently the media would rather have law enforcement wait until they are shot before returning fire and hope the suspect is a bad shot.

Story #1 > https://www.post-gazette.com/news/c...e-by-victim-tells-police/stories/201903010161

Story #2 > https://triblive.com/local/valley-n...haw-was-shot-testifies-during-trials-2nd-day/

In both cases if the suspects had obeyed commands nobody would be dead.
Click to expand...

I followed both of those stories as I do most sensationalized police shootings and as usual, the press got it wrong. And the worst part is the media blasts the airwaves with the injustice of it all and yet, when the officers are cleared and justified there is rarely a mention....and if there is, its usually a 5-10 second spot after the news about the garden show or some other piece of crap.

One thing I forgot to mention is the Sacramento Police policy change regarding foot pursuits as a result of the Stephon Clark case. "In July 2018, the Sacramento Police Department changed its foot pursuit policy, requiring officers to assess the danger chasing a suspect poses to officers and to the public." The politicians are going to continue to make the police so ineffective that they will be armed only with a roll of duct tape and note pads to give the criminals a Time Out.

The laws of our society have been around for hundreds of years and worked effectively because people obeyed or more importantly, understood the consequences if you chose to break the law. Today, with all of the hurt feelings and perceived injustice promoted by liberal politicians, musicians, movie and sports stars, policing polices will continue to be watered down and an officer, just doing his job, is going to second-guess himself and get killed. And the media won't give it any airtime.

People need to be held accountable for their actions. When I was a little kid and I broke a rule I got a swat on the ass or was appropriately punished. I don't hate my parents, I never wanted to kill myself or others. What I did do is learn that if I chose to not follow the rules there were consequences. I played organized sports my whole life starting at about age 9. I learned when I played poorly we lost. I hated losing and so I challenged myself to try harder so I would not lose. I still hate losing. Today we teach kids its OK to lose....its not important. BULLSHIT!

Somehow, somewhere we need to take things back to the way they were....
Shawn
 
Many years ago when I was a cop I responded to a call of a man inside an apartment shooting people. This was in a very nice area of apartments that bordered the golf course.

The guy inside shot his shotgun twice while I was outside waiting for backup. We didn't know if he'd shot more people or was just shooting up the apartment.

When the backup arrived he saw the cop car pull into the area. He came out on the small back porch to look for them (he wasn't aware I was already there watching him) and when he did, I challenged him to drop the shotgun.

He didn't know where the command had come from and was looking around the find the source of the voice. I repeated the command and he located me. Now, me being a firearms instructor and officer survival instructor, I was well aware of the difference between cover and concealment. I had good cover.

He fired a shot directly at me from a distance of 41'. His shot hit the brick wall I was behind then sprayed into the parking lot.

He turned to come down off the porch. Had he done that I would have lost my cover so my only recourse was to shoot him. He went down like a bag of rocks, paralyzed but not dead.

As I reflect back on that, one of my first thoughts was to analyze the shooting to determine if it was a "good" shooting. It was.

My next thought was to wonder how that whole thing would play out in the press. Fortunately neighbors had heard his shots in the apartment, my commands to drop his shotgun, then his shot, then my shot that ended the fun.

Not much the press could do with that one so it quietly went away after a few days.

I was lucky.
 
Back about 2010 my step-son (B) was in about his 2nd year on the force. He got called to an apartment where a man was holding his daughters girlfriend at gunpoint and had fired a couple shots through his ceiling. My step-son was the first on scene but a few other cars rolled up with him being the closest. The man came out onto his porch with a shotgun in one hand and a handgun in the other. He waved the guns around so B had to duck his head down behind his car a few times. The one time he popped his head up the guy was looking right at him and turned the gun towards him so B fired his Glock and hit the guy in the shoulder. The guy fired a couple of shots off and the other officers fired then too. The man lived but was in the hospital for awhile. It was found to be a justifiable shooting and he had to go see the police counselors before he could return to work but this barely got any press coverage.

And in the Pttsburgh stories above the Mayor of Pittsburgh criticized the officer and sided Antwon Rose's family. The Pittsburgh mayor is very much anti law enforcement and doesn't back them up on anything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,164
Messages
1,427,633
Members
61,073
Latest member
kolak3
Back
Top