What Is An EIM Worth?

mobocracy said:
For that kind of money it makes a person wonder what it would cost simply to rewire the helm directly to the individual circuits. I don't know what the material costs would be, but if you say $1500 for wire, switches, etc, that leaves $5700 (relative to the total bill of $7200 quoted) for labor. That's 57 hours of labor, and I kind of wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper just to rewire the electronic controls analog-style.
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Is not that basically what FP did with their system? You are just paying for their labor and markup - they are entitled to make something for putting this all together pre-wired along with the panels.

-Kevin
 
KevinC said:
Is not that basically what FP did with their system? You are just paying for their labor and markup - they are entitled to make something for putting this all together pre-wired along with the panels.

-Kevin
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And as someone pointed out in a previous post in this thread, all those switches and new panels are expensive.

MM
 
I would be interested in spending some time attempting to backwards engineer the communication protocol. To do that, I would need a working switch panel and power/relay box, which I imagine is going to be hard to come by. But those units that still partially function with a few failed circuits are ideal. If protocol can be obtained, a replacement or repairs could be made pretty easily. Individual circuits might be able to be fixed. This is all assuming the electronics are not potted and can be accessed. Let me know if anyone has anything they would be willing to let me borrow.
 
I guess I just look at life a lot definitely, your buddy bought a sea ray with EIM pads , they suck ,we all know it. So how much is an old used pad worth, who knows ,probably be useless in a year or two anyway. If it was up to me I’d say who ever wants it pay me for shipping and it’s yours
 
I contacted Blink Marine in Italy to have them reverse engineered my Forward and Aft EIMs for my 2011 350 Sundancer. Blink Marine brought the original EIM manufacturer and also they are manufacturers of the new replacement units that Sea Ray are selling. Blink Marine shipped me two new EIMs which I received at the beginning of this week. I have not installed them yet, probably will be able get to them until after the holidays. However, these units are plug and play; I can install myself with an hour or two. Cost is less than half of both the Flounder Pounder or the Sea Ray Replacement. Once, I get an opportunity to install and test my replacement EIMs, I will post my results.
 
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KevinC said:
Is not that basically what FP did with their system? You are just paying for their labor and markup - they are entitled to make something for putting this all together pre-wired along with the panels.

-Kevin
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My mechanic told me that he re-wired a boat and using Caring Switches. He quoted 50 plus hours of labor to do the complete rewiring job plus the cost of the switches from https://newwiremarine.com.
 
argus1 said:
I contacted Blink Marine in Italy to have them reverse engineered my Forward and Aft EIMs for my 2011 350 Sundancer. Blink Marine brought the original EIM manufacturer and also they are manufacturers of the new replacement units that Sea Ray are selling. Blink Marine shipped me two new EIMs which I received at the beginning of this week. I have not installed them yet, probably will be able get to them until after the holidays. However, these units are plug and play; I can install myself with an hour or two. Cost is less than half of both the Flounder Pounder or the Sea Ray Replacement. Once, I get an opportunity to install and test my replacement EIMs, I will post my results.
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So is this a practical thing for anybody to do? I have to salute your determination to basically go to Italy to get the parts, but the amazing thing is they agreed reverse engineer it. I mean it sounds like a one-off job they would price sky high just to not have to do it or just say "our contract with Sea Ray says no".

But it also sounds like they could build up a reasonable business supplying actual Plug-and-pray EIMs to Sea Ray owners, unless Sea Ray prohibits it. It also sounds like since they already supply the new replacement units to Sea Ray that they already know how to make them and don't need to reverse engineer anything.
 
mobocracy said:
So is this a practical thing for anybody to do? I have to salute your determination to basically go to Italy to get the parts, but the amazing thing is they agreed reverse engineer it. I mean it sounds like a one-off job they would price sky high just to not have to do it or just say "our contract with Sea Ray says no".

But it also sounds like they could build up a reasonable business supplying actual Plug-and-pray EIMs to Sea Ray owners, unless Sea Ray prohibits it. It also sounds like since they already supply the new replacement units to Sea Ray that they already know how to make them and don't need to reverse engineer anything.
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It appears that they are more than willing to provide replacement units to those who need them. Blink Marine asked me to post my results on the user forums to share with everyone. They have been extremely accommodating and helpful. I think that they had the specs for the original units but the EIM software had to rewritten because it was not retained when Blink Marine acquired the original manufacturer. I had to send my EIMs and switch pads to Italy for them to reverse engineer the software. Blink Marine name for the replacement units are PC20 CAN bus control units which is in their standard product line. The original EIM and PC20 are not specific to Sea Ray like many parts on our boats; just been spec to meet Sea Rays requirements.

I took the chance to have this done. I want to install and test the Blink units before I give my full endorsement.
 
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argus1 said:
It appears that they are more than willing to provide replacement units to those who need them. Blink Marine asked me to post my results on the user forums to share with everyone. They have been extremely accommodating and helpful. I think that they had the specs for the original units but the EIM software had to rewritten because it was not retained when Blink Marine acquired the original manufacturer. I had to send my EIMs and switch pads to Italy for them to reverse engineer the software. Blink Marine name for the replacement units are PC20 CAN bus control units which is in their standard product line. The original EIM and PC20 are not specific to Sea Ray like many parts on our boats; just been spec to meet Sea Rays requirements.

I took the chance to have this done. I want to install and test the Blink units before I give my full endorsement.
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Using generic controls is common. The engine display for our Volvos is a generic Diesel engine monitor with with custom UI.

I didn’t think the original EIMs were CAN bus technology, but no matter as long as it works. A functional replacement could easily be crafted from a box of PLCs, or a handful of switches and wire as done by FP.
 
argus1: Just curious how you had a EIM working enough to backwards engineer, but you still apparently needed it replaced? Sorry if I missed the initial story.

Does Blink Marine sell the Searay keypads (that match OEM) as well?
 
pyro said:
argus1: Just curious how you had a EIM working enough to backwards engineer, but you still apparently needed it replaced? Sorry if I missed the initial story.

Does Blink Marine sell the Searay keypads (that match OEM) as well?
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I didn't do the work; so, all I can do is report what Blink Marine told me. It is my impression that the EIM interprets the key presses on the keypads on the dash to control electric current to the appropriate device. There are only four wires coming from each of the two keypads. From my limited knowledge of computers, a press on key must send a binary code that is read by the EIM software to make things turn on and off. It isn't magic. A four digit binary code has 16 possible combinations. Pressing the buttons on my starboard keypad would sometimes turn the light that you desired, and sometimes not, at other times every button would start blinking when you press one button, the keypad light would turn on but the light that button controls would not. MarineMax had already replaced the starboard keypad twice ($600.00+ each time) and this would have been the third replacement. I got so frustrated with MarineMax and their lack of knowledge about the EIM; I contacted Blink Marine to see if they could help. Blink Marine brought the original manufacturer which was a US company. Blink Marine had the original design drawings for the EIM but what they did not have was the computer program that interprets the keypad presses and turns on/turns off lights and devices. They needed me to send my EIMs and keypads to rewrite the computer program.

I asked Blink Marine about the keypads and they said, "No." The keypads are custom to Sea Ray. However, they told me that they may be able to repair a keypad if needed.

As, I said in a previous post, I am holding my final judgement until after I can install the Blink Marine PC20's to replace my EIM and test everything to make sure that it is working. I should be install the system in the next few weeks. I will let this community know my results.
 
argus1 said:
I didn't do the work; so, all I can do is report what Blink Marine told me. It is my impression that the EIM interprets the key presses on the keypads on the dash to control electric current to the appropriate device. There are only four wires coming from each of the two keypads. From my limited knowledge of computers, a press on key must send a binary code that is read by the EIM software to make things turn on and off. It isn't magic. A four digit binary code has 16 possible combinations. Pressing the buttons on my starboard keypad would sometimes turn the light that you desired, and sometimes not, at other times every button would start blinking when you press one button, the keypad light would turn on but the light that button controls would not. MarineMax had already replaced the starboard keypad twice ($600.00+ each time) and this would have been the third replacement. I got so frustrated with MarineMax and their lack of knowledge about the EIM; I contacted Blink Marine to see if they could help. Blink Marine brought the original manufacturer which was a US company. Blink Marine had the original design drawings for the EIM but what they did not have was the computer program that interprets the keypad presses and turns on/turns off lights and devices. They needed me to send my EIMs and keypads to rewrite the computer program.

I asked Blink Marine about the keypads and they said, "No." The keypads are custom to Sea Ray. However, they told me that they may be able to repair a keypad if needed.

As, I said in a previous post, I am holding my final judgement until after I can install the Blink Marine PC20's to replace my EIM and test everything to make sure that it is working. I should be install the system in the next few weeks. I will let this community know my results.
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We went down this path in research for bringing a product to market. We talked to many of the the previous suppliers and companies that acquired the technology as it was sold off. If I remember correctly the Blink modules did not have enough higher amperage outputs to fully replace the larger Sea Ray EIM. Things may have changed as I have not followed up. I do think one of the companies we were working with had a solution for the EIMs for the smaller "peanut" pads.

We tabled this project when Sea Ray announced they were bringing in a replacement system. However, with the pricing for that system it might be something to reconsider again.

-Kevin
 
It's kind of strange that the EIM was sold to Blink, yet the keypad was not? Both sides need to communicate on the same protocol, so it's odd that they only got half of it. I hope I never have issues with these things!
 
pyro said:
It's kind of strange that the EIM was sold to Blink, yet the keypad was not? Both sides need to communicate on the same protocol, so it's odd that they only got half of it. I hope I never have issues with these things!
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I'd wager that the Searay specific thing about the keypads is tied to proprietary shape/molding/assemblies. I'd bet Blink could sell you A keypad (that wouldn't fit your helm cutout), just not the one with Searay branding/graphics/button icons shaped to fit your helm.
 
pyro said:
It's kind of strange that the EIM was sold to Blink, yet the keypad was not? Both sides need to communicate on the same protocol, so it's odd that they only got half of it. I hope I never have issues with these things!
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The Sea Ray pads operate on industry standard canbus coding. The specifics are what the buttons do and what responses they get. Canbus commands also dictate whether it is a momentary, gate or toggling (through cycles like dim).

Once the bus coding is reverse engineered it can be programmed into multiple switches and place on the network.

-Kevin
 
KevinC said:
The Sea Ray pads operate on industry standard canbus coding. The specifics are what the buttons do and what responses they get. Canbus commands also dictate whether it is a momentary, gate or toggling (through cycles like dim).

Once the bus coding is reverse engineered it can be programmed into multiple switches and place on the network.

-Kevin
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I mentioned it before but I do work as an embedded hardware/software engineer and work a little with CAN derivatives. If it's truly CAN, I do have a CAN analyzer that can snoop and backwards engineer messages. If anyone happened to have one of these and I could set it up from the comfort of my home office, I wouldn't mind spending some time backwards engineering it and posting results. Could make repair of these things feasible in the future. Just throwing it out there - although I'm a little weary of how much work it would really be!
 
Looking forward to hearing your results when you get it in the boat. My EIM completely failed in April 2019. At that time Blink and Sea Ray could not offer any solution but said it was in the works without any estimated time frame. My only choice was the FP Marine system. It has worked perfectly and is much easier to operate than the old touch pads. Glad to hear solutions are coming for this issue that Sea Ray has seemed to just abandon.
 
I plan to install and test this week; probably after Christmas. Hopefully we get a break in the weather so I can work on the boat. Will post my results after I get the system installed.
 
I just think back to how much I loved my 340, and how lucky I was to not have any problems with the EIMs - what a nightmare for everyone with problems. Too bad Sea Ray "abandoned" everyone with their EIM product.
 
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