Trojan Express Yachts...input?

YeOldeStonecat

YeOldeStonecat

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
332
Waterford, CT, boat in Deep River, CT
Boat Info
'97 300 DA "Me-Shell"
Engines
Twin 5.7 V-Drive
So as my wife and I are going on our second year with our 300DA....we're keeping an eye out for an upgrade in size. I know I'll get the evil eye talking about another brand outside of SR....

We've considered convertibles...as a few dock neighbors have those silvertons and meridians, and wifey enjoys the large salon. But I believe her and I are in agreement we don't want a high/tall boat (the bridge up there)...stairs going up (my bad lower back and her bum knees).

Have considered trawlers...so long as it's a "swift trawler"....something capable of approaching or just going over 20 knots.

And yet we still love the express cruiser style. We both drool over the Formula 37 and 40 footers around our marina. And we both like Sea Ray too of course!

But another brand that has caught my eye...is Trojan...with their Express Yacht models. Not so much their "International" models..the metrics, but more the US based I guess, like the 360, 370, 400, etc. They seem to focus more on height (tall guys like me would like..I'm 6'5")...and beam.

So while they're not made anymore, the bit I've been reading, when they were made..they were solid boats. Lancaster PA (my wife and I loved traveling to Amish country). Solid hulls, no core, no wood...heavy like tanks. And even from the 80's and 90's..their styling still pleases the eye (of me at least).

Anyone here have one of those models..and can yack about it?
Notice not many diesels...I did want to go diesel if I got towards 40 foot. Knowing they're heavy boats...v-drives...so not fast, not crazy about super thirsty big blocks working hard just to muster up 25 knots.

We really want to move to something more beamy than our 300DA with it's 10'6"...would love to get to at least 13. And we've craving an island bed...so either of us can get out without climbing all over the other. Granted our late 90's 300DA is quite roomy for a 30 footer...we're wanting more space down there in the berth or when passing down below.

Yet...I think keep under 40 feet LOA due to marina costs.
 
I don't know anything (worth talking about, anyways) about Trojan. Can't help you there, sorry. But a late-90's 370 EC or 400 EC from Sea Ray? You've probably already looked at those, but just mentioning in case you weren't aware. But maybe it doesn't have the size salon you were looking for?
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
So as my wife and I are going on our second year with our 300DA....we're keeping an eye out for an upgrade in size. I know I'll get the evil eye talking about another brand outside of SR....

We've considered convertibles...as a few dock neighbors have those silvertons and meridians, and wifey enjoys the large salon. But I believe her and I are in agreement we don't want a high/tall boat (the bridge up there)...stairs going up (my bad lower back and her bum knees).

Have considered trawlers...so long as it's a "swift trawler"....something capable of approaching or just going over 20 knots.

And yet we still love the express cruiser style. We both drool over the Formula 37 and 40 footers around our marina. And we both like Sea Ray too of course!

But another brand that has caught my eye...is Trojan...with their Express Yacht models. Not so much their "International" models..the metrics, but more the US based I guess, like the 360, 370, 400, etc. They seem to focus more on height (tall guys like me would like..I'm 6'5")...and beam.

So while they're not made anymore, the bit I've been reading, when they were made..they were solid boats. Lancaster PA (my wife and I loved traveling to Amish country). Solid hulls, no core, no wood...heavy like tanks. And even from the 80's and 90's..their styling still pleases the eye (of me at least).

Anyone here have one of those models..and can yack about it?
Notice not many diesels...I did want to go diesel if I got towards 40 foot. Knowing they're heavy boats...v-drives...so not fast, not crazy about super thirsty big blocks working hard just to muster up 25 knots.

We really want to move to something more beamy than our 300DA with it's 10'6"...would love to get to at least 13. And we've craving an island bed...so either of us can get out without climbing all over the other. Granted our late 90's 300DA is quite roomy for a 30 footer...we're wanting more space down there in the berth or when passing down below.

Yet...I think keep under 40 feet LOA due to marina costs.
Click to expand...

First of all fast trawlers are not designed for 20 plus knots. Big blocks in a Trojan express would be lucky to reach 25 knots at WOT. You sound like a perfect candidate for an 80s vintage 390EC or 90 vintage 400 Express with 454s. they with cruise at 20knots if set up properly and have all the amenities you want at 40ft or less.
 
In the 35-40 range of "Trojans, by Carver" the first thing you might notice is that they don't reflect the Carver tradition of being surprisingly roomy. In fact, I was surprised how tight the 35-36 feels.

The Trojan 390/400 is comparable to a 380DA in size and feel. A friend of mine had a 390. He added a bolt-on swim platform which basically made it a 400 - it made a big difference. The boat surveyed well both times - when he bought and sold it. In contrast, another example in the area was fire-sold because of structural issues.

I've never seen one with diesels.

It doesn't sound like the 44 is in the running for you, but that's a different beast. The 44 definitely has some Carver pedigree in terms of space utilization. The early models were manufactured by Hatteras for Carver, and that didn't go so well. Quality improved after the first year. They were offered with Cummins, Cats or Volvos, and she's a BIG 44 - even with the garage. There was a 2 and a 3 stateroom layout.
 
I'm just "thinking" our next step is 37-40...I'd say mostly for marina costs. I may look at pricing again...perhaps a 44 may do.

I have read Trojan was solid stuff...and read that the brand was bought by Carver. Now my impression of Carver (only my impression..never owned one, just going by reading on the internet)...not the best quality, tend to be big condos on smallest underpowered hull possible, "tippy". But in reading Trojans forums..they say Carver kept the Lancaster plant, kept the people, so luckily the Trojan quality stayed mostly the same. Some design changes...but I've not learned what those are yet.

I thought I had read that Hatteras made some, but I mentioned that in another forum and the guy who did the Trojan website/forum (so I'd assume he was knowledgeable on Trojans) corrected me saying "Hatteras never made Trojans".
 
That's been a source of confusion. I grew up on F-series Trojans and even I believed for several decades that Trojan was owned by Bertram. In reality, Trojan was owned by Whittaker Marine, which had also owned Bertram.

I found that thread. He actually said, "They were never owned by Hatteras or Bertram". That's true. Before Hatteras was owned by Brunswick, Hatteras and Carver were both owned by Genmar. It was during that time that the 44 was assembled in a Hatteras plant.
 
RollerCoastr said:
Before Hatteras was owned by Brunswick, Hatteras and Carver were both owned by Genmar. It was during that time that the 44 was assembled in a Hatteras plant.
Click to expand...

Ah gotcha. So they were sorta stretching that for the sales pitch...assuming Hatteras was a big well known name.

Which begs the next question in this identity crisis....were the Trojans built in the Hatteras plant equal in quality/workmanship...to the ones made in the Lancaster PA plant?
 
There were reported quality issues with the examples built by Hatteras, but those were the early ones and I suppose that can be said for any number of things...

My dock neighbor owned Hull #1 of the Maxum 4600SCB. He said it was the worst boat he'd ever had. A friend of mine has one that was built a year later and it's an awesome boat even 20 years later.
 
I was looking for a 450 or 460 Sea Ray last year. Ran across a 1998 Trojan 440 Express. I was set on a Sea Ray, but after looking at this boat, I couldn't pass it up.

As RollerCoastr said, the 440 is a big boat for it's class, and IMO, has a great layout inside and out.

Put about 250 hours on it this year, it's been a great boat so far. Still keep in touch with the previous owner.

Mine has the Cummins QSM-11's, and makes the boat move pretty good, also makes stops at the fuel dock a bit more frequent.
 
IMG_4230.JPG
OP should look at a 32' Tiara Open. 13' beam. LOA 39'. Island bed. Express layout. Similar layout to Sea Ray Express. More comfortable seating. Seems to check a number of his boxes.
 
We spent the last 2-3 years looking at pretty much every express/aft/sedan bridge model we could find in the 36-42' range and that included both a Trojan international 12m and a caver/trojan 370. I had high hopes for the 370 but in reality we didn't like it much at all. Like was said here previously it felt pretty cramped vs something like a Sea Ray 370DA and far more cramped than the international 12m. The mid-cabin especially was smaller than expected for a boat this size (and it has a wet head too!) Overall quality seemed lower than the older international 12M and generally lower than Sea Rays and Cruisers Yachts too. There weren't any 440s around here, but after looking at them online they do seem to be significantly larger and possibly nicer than the smaller models. It also didn't help that the 370 we looked at wasn't particularly well cared for. The bow stateroom door had gotten wet and swelled to the point where you couldn't even close it.

Personally for express cruisers in the ~40' size range I think the best bet is to find the driest 370/380 sundancer you can find or a 3870/3970 cruisers yachts. The 400/410 sundancer is also a nice option if you are willing to jump up in size a bit. The early 2000s Regals in this size range might be options too though the one we looked at had some issues. If you are willing to look at aft cabins or sedan bridge models you have a lot more options and I think the carvers are generally better values in those configurations.

Edit: Formula might be another option, though we didn't end up looking at any so I can't comment on them.
 
Last edited:
IMG_4230.JPG
Anybody notice the OP is looking for a 13' beam and under 40' loa boat?
 
sbw1 said:
View attachment 74905 Anybody notice the OP is looking for a 13' beam and under 40' loa boat?
Click to expand...

The 370da is roughly in the same ballpark as the trojan 370 though narrower (The 370da actually felt like it was laid out better to me). The 380da and the 3870 are both a small step up both in size and weight.

Trojan 370:
LOA: 39'4"
Beam: 13'6"
Weight: 17,100lbs

1995-1998 Sea Ray 370da:
LOA: 40'
Beam: 12'7"
Weight: 17,000lbs

2003 Sea Ray 380da:
LOA: 42'
Beam: 13'0"
Weight: 20,000lbs

Cruisers Yachts 3870:
LOA: 43'
Beam: 13'6"
Weight: 20,000lbs

Edit - Regal 3860:
LOA: 40'1"
Beam: 13'
Weight: 19,000lbs
 
Last edited:
markhpc said:
The 370da is roughly in the same ballpark as the trojan 370 though narrower (The 370da actually felt like it was laid out better to me). The 380da and the 3870 are both a small step up both in size and weight.

Trojan 370:
LOA: 39'4"
Beam: 13'6"
Weight: 17,100lbs

1995-1998 Sea Ray 370da:
LOA: 40'
Beam: 12'7"
Weight: 17,000lbs

2003 Sea Ray 380da:
LOA: 42'
Beam: 13'0"
Weight: 20,000lbs

Cruisers Yachts 3870:
LOA: 43'
Beam: 13'6"
Weight: 20,000lbs

Edit - Regal 3860:
LOA: 40'1"
Beam: 13'
Weight: 19,000lbs
Click to expand...


If I were looking to stay under 40’ for marina costs then these are the boats I’d probably be looking at for the way I boat.
IMHO: In the end, with a 15 or 20 year old boat it’s more about overall condition than brand.
When I started my search for my current boat I started with the 380 Sundancer. It’s a great boat. Just couldn’t find the right one for me at the time. The only thing I learned to steer clear of was the ones with the older style (pre water lift) exhaust.
For the sake of getting the cleanest boat possible I expanded the search to include the Regal and Cruisers.
I love the newer Formulas, but the interiors in the older ones didn’t appeal to me so I left them off the search list.
I really liked a lot of things about the mid 2000’s Regals including the aft cabin, cockpit layout and engine room access. Pretty well thought out boat for the size and money.
I looked at a few of them (2002-2003)and they all had a problem with a milky haze on the cabinets in the cabin that kept me from making offers on them.
I think if you get to around 2005 they may have solved that issue and you’ll get a hardtop too in that vintage for a lot less than you’ll pay for one in a 390 Sea Ray.
Never got to check out any Cruisers or Trojans in person because there just wasn’t that many of them available when I was looking, but both look to be pretty nice boats.
After searching for a while I decided that diesels were the way for me to go which brought me to my 410.
Basically the same as a 380 but a bit beamier, a second head, bigger aft cabin and a nice pocket door back there for privacy.
If you decide to break through the 40’ and 13’ beam restriction then the 410 is a nice choice to add to the list.
If not, then the others are all nice boats too.
 
If they were to bring back the original Trojan International, I would be interested. I know why all new boats are lighter, but I would take a solid glass boat any day. Not like I currently get great mileage. What 0.6mph on average while cruising. It's all the same in the end.
 
Thanks for the input all.
Yeah I'm not "firm" on 13' beam, could do with 12 'n change. A poster above noted some specs at the mid to late 80's 370da with a 12'7" beam is close enough. Wife and I going down below when we look at 'em will be the ultimate "yay or nay".
I'm not firm in sticking to <40 LOA. Although I think I'd like to for sure...cuz it's quite a jump in pay to go to "A-Dock" where the big boys are in our marina.

I haven't been inside any Cruisers Yachts...have read they are good.

Oh...one thing I'm wanting to really make note of...engine bilge access. I'm frequently down there in ours. Now...our year of 300da has to be one of the worse layouts known to mankind..for engine access. Gotta to remove the rear lounge cusions, and then carry off those big awkward L-shaped bench seat bases, and then carry out the four big deck plates. And when all done, put it all back. I have a bad lower back..I feel it several days later whenever I work down there.

I know this tends to be the way with "many/most" express cruisers...at least up til/around 40 feet...and after that you get that nice trunk that lifts like our dock neighbors gorgeous Formula 40. Such ease to access his beautiful engines.
 
IMG_4230.JPG
IMG_3563.JPG
Engine access is not bad on the 32 Open.
 
FWIW, the engine access on our 3970 I'd rate as "ok". It's probably semi-comparable to the 370/380 and worse than a 410da, and far worse than a 410ec (which is amazing!). I recall the trojan 12m international also have a giant engine compartment while the trojan 370 was probably in the same ballpark as the 3970 and 370/380.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Thanks for the input all.
Yeah I'm not "firm" on 13' beam, could do with 12 'n change. A poster above noted some specs at the mid to late 80's 370da with a 12'7" beam is close enough. Wife and I going down below when we look at 'em will be the ultimate "yay or nay".
I'm not firm in sticking to <40 LOA. Although I think I'd like to for sure...cuz it's quite a jump in pay to go to "A-Dock" where the big boys are in our marina.

I haven't been inside any Cruisers Yachts...have read they are good.

Oh...one thing I'm wanting to really make note of...engine bilge access. I'm frequently down there in ours. Now...our year of 300da has to be one of the worse layouts known to mankind..for engine access. Gotta to remove the rear lounge cusions, and then carry off those big awkward L-shaped bench seat bases, and then carry out the four big deck plates. And when all done, put it all back. I have a bad lower back..I feel it several days later whenever I work down there.

I know this tends to be the way with "many/most" express cruisers...at least up til/around 40 feet...and after that you get that nice trunk that lifts like our dock neighbors gorgeous Formula 40. Such ease to access his beautiful engines.
Click to expand...

The way the trunk/rear of the boat lifted for engine access was one of the features I really liked about the Regal
 
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