Leak in watertank

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 11, 2019

I am glad to read that message Playdate. I had doubts to do that because of the mess drilling in polyester.

The wooden plate at the bottom in closet you cant see at the pictures, Its probably above the hatch. The door of the closet is also 0,5 meter above the Floor so When there is a hatch Its almost impossible to reach the Problem area.

I remove carpet just before the closet, make a hole and then i be right above the Problem area.

The wooden beam has no screws on left side Only on the beam strange though). Probably with glue kit or something.

Tomorrow I go look for Some tools to make the hole. My home is far away to drive for a saw. Lets hope i can get something in harbour.

After I reach the Problem area i use the jb weld and attach beam and Problem fixed.

I make pictures from process, I hope i receive the jb weld in couple days.

The hatch I ment is behind the wood with screws, you cant see that on the photo

Soulshine · Sep 11, 2019

West Systems G-Flex is a good choice here.

Heat treating will promote better adhesion and I’m sure the folks on their tech line would be glad to offer advice.

bahamabreisus · Sep 11, 2019

This might be an issue with the 500s, we have a 500 also, and when filling the tank it leaks also. Only about 5 gals comes out then it stops. I usually only fill to 3/4 tank. Now I guess I have an idea of where it might be leaking.

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 12, 2019

Bahama: fill the tank and do not stop but keep on watching and try to locate the squirt. Maybe you also see a wooden beam that is loose. I think When the boat is getting heavy waves the beam Goes up and down and causes the crack

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 20, 2019

Finally started with making a hole. We had some friends and family on visit last week so misses didn’t want me to work sooner. The biggest target was to saw excactly above the problems area.
Luckily I messured correctly, cleaned the area and used sandpaper to rough it up. Applied the jb weld.
Next weekend I fill the tank and hopefully the leak is repeared.

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 20, 2019

Strange thing though when I watched previous pictures.
On the picture when water squirts I see that the watertank is like a balloon. The tank goes to the wooden beams.
When watertank is half full it’s flat.
Is this normal?

bahamabreisus · Sep 20, 2019

I think we will fill to 3/4 mark until we address the issue. Does not seem that it should bow up like that. I am guessing thats why it has cracked.

Lazy Daze · Sep 20, 2019

Marc, check your vent line. If it's blocked up, it could be your reason for the excessive bulging. "Blocked up" could be:

-- The hull fitting is clogged with bugs nests or old wax
-- The vent hose has a dip/low spot in it and has collected water

What is that small hose with the little shutoff that's tapped into your fill hose elbow?

On the other hand, good job with your measuring!

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 20, 2019

When I look at the position of the wooden beams, they are installed at that position because of the bulging.

I spoke to a watertank company and they explained me that there is a constant pressure when you fill the tank full: the tank is not waterpas (in front higher then in back), and the filling point is 1,5 meter above the tank.

this pressure and position wooden beams says enough that it’s normal that the watertank is bulging.

I don’t know the exact function of the small hose but I thinks it’s an air hose.

When I overfilled the watertank i saw no air and the water was filled on top from back to front in a good flow. (I checked this with flashlight shining in tank). With this knowledge I can say that nothing is blocked up.

Because of the age of the watertank it’s better not to overfill anymore. Maybe in the past they overfilled the tank and went away from the boat with result that there was a long big pressure in the tank.
I will overfill the tank 1 more time to check if the leak is repaired then I take a long shower to release the pressure

PlayDate · Sep 20, 2019

Marc,

First things first.....Congrats on the great work and perfect engineering!

Now to the mystery valve:

That little guy is not Sea Ray ....at least I have never seen one on a Sea Ray. It appears to supply a vent line for the fill hose. It probably began its life as a Saddle Valve for copper pipe and the valve was removed from the Saddle to provide a connection point on the gray fitting. It was installed with Teflon tape and appears to be in the open position.

I'm guessing there is a reason that it was installed. I am curious where the other end of the hose goes.

Lazy Daze · Sep 20, 2019

Definitely go take that shower!

I'm still concerned about the bulging. It even looks like (in the pics) the tank is pushing on the wooden beams and causing them to bow slightly. That's an awful lot of pressure that shouldn't be there. In fact, thinking more about this... that excess pressure and bulging very well may have been the issue that caused your crack to begin with.

John, can you think of anything on his boat where an previous owner may have installed a return line to the tank? Seems odd to think that someone may have done that (and kinda gross, too), but those plastic sadle valve lines are not very big and I can't imagine that being the only vent for the tank. Even though, as you pointed out (and I agree), I can't see how that is done from the factory. Plus, there would be no reason to use a sadle/shutoff when it would have been easier to simply use a pipe to barb connector with a rubber hose... so, why the shutoff, you know?

If this is a European boat, maybe there's something I'm not thinking of.

Yes - I would definitely be interested to know where that other line goes.

Maybe it's just my laptop, but does that fill hose look suspect?

I do think it's still important to pursue the (possible) lack of venting issue.

PlayDate · Sep 20, 2019

Lazy Daze said:
Definitely go take that shower!

I'm still concerned about the bulging. It even looks like (in the pics) the tank is pushing on the wooden beams and causing them to bow slightly. That's an awful lot of pressure that shouldn't be there. In fact, thinking more about this... that excess pressure and bulging very well may have been the issue that caused your crack to begin with.

John, can you think of anything on his boat where an previous owner may have installed a return line to the tank? Seems odd to think that someone may have done that (and kinda gross, too), but those plastic sadle valve lines are not very big and I can't imagine that being the only vent for the tank. Even though, as you pointed out (and I agree), I can't see how that is done from the factory. Plus, there would be no reason to use a sadle/shutoff when it would have been easier to simply use a pipe to barb connector with a rubber hose... so, why the shutoff, you know?

If this is a European boat, maybe there's something I'm not thinking of.

Yes - I would definitely be interested to know where that other line goes.

Maybe it's just my laptop, but does that fill hose look suspect?

I do think it's still important to pursue the (possible) lack of venting issue.

Dennis,

There are several things wrong with the picture. The filter on the supply line is wrong....I have never seen one unsecured in that location. The tank has no vent visible which is also weird and then we have a saddle valve attached to the fill hose fitting.

So if I was to make a complete guess.....the tank has been blowing up like a balloon by adding water pressure without a properly sized vent for some time. The same thing happens to waste tanks when they get over pressurized. Most waste tanks crack from the pressure others will spit the fittings out. In this case the previous owner suspected a problem and he or his mechanic installed the saddle valve as a fitting to reduce the pressure. Perhaps the mechanic or owner heard about another owner having the same issue.

Unfortunately.....the tank has had enough cycles of being over pressurized that it takes on that shape when it is filled. Additionally the saddle valve vent line will not work if it is filled with water which can easily happen as water pours in. So it is a fix that didn't work and the tank continued to blow up like a balloon until it cracked.

The simple solution is to only fill it 3/4 full. The tank will develop more cracks if it is filled beyond that point. Without a vent, it is important to fill the tank slowly. Rapid filling will cause the balloon effect to happen since the air has no where to escape to.

I would check to see if there is another vent line on that tank. If there is....I would speculate that it is blocked. If there isn't (maybe a EU spec) I would drill a hole in the tank and thread in a fitting with a minimum 5/8" vent line. Marc has built the perfect access hole to tap the tank for a vent line. The current line to the saddle valve is 1/4" for comparison.

What may not be obvious is that a water hose operates at 50-75 psi. The tank is not designed to withstand any where near that much pressure. Without a vent....that pressure will build up in the tank as it is being filled.

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 21, 2019

Guys, before we go on what could be wrong first all pictures with in and outs.
All in the back there is another outlet; the overflow/air.

i am totally agree that bulging is not good. I try to follow the small hose but at some point i couldn’t locate it for 100%. I have to put more time in that. What I think it’s a hose attached to the halon system.

The pressure in the tank mostly build up (by full thank) is that the tank is higher in front then in back (pressure back and middle makes the bulging?) and when inlet is full that builds also pressure.

the hose in back for overflow and air I couldn’t check because the vent is on the wrong side of the boat and my zodiac is already stored but I don’t think it’s blocked because I saw when i overfilled water coming out.

left and right in front are outlets to 240v and 24v pump. The boat is (as far as I know) an USA boat. Most electricity is 110v. USA gauges etc

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 21, 2019

I hope the JB weld will do but i have my doubts. When making te 2 components together I used a PP cup. After a day i could easy loosen the jb weld. Next week i check it on the tank.
The tank is pe. There was a sticker attached on the tank and i googled the company and they make all tanks from PE.

When jb weld is not fixed a guy from watertank shop comes to weld it for friendly price

Lazy Daze · Sep 21, 2019

Aha! I think I may see your venting problem. Look at your white, vent line. It appears to have some low spots/dips in it. If this is the case, then water will collect in those dips and not let the air out - which causes the bulging. Eventually, some water may spurt out the vent hull fitting, but that's already after the tank has bulged.

As John eluded to, even filling only to 3/4 full can still cause excessive bulging. I had the same thing happen to a gas tank in one of my boats - luckily I found the issue and the low spot before it caused a problem.

Lazy Daze · Sep 21, 2019

JB Weld... yes, as I think mentioned early on, those tanks are polyethylene and it is a very slippery plastic. The only way that I have had decent success is to heat treat it and also sand it/rough it up REALLY well - creating lot's of "tooth" for the epoxy to sink into and grab.

However, I wouldn't base whether or not the JB is going to stick to your tank based on your plastic cup experience. When we mix epoxy - stuff even stronger than JB - we using plastic mixing cups because after it cures, we can "pop" the old stuff right out and reuse the cup. What you had happen with the cup is to be expected.

PlayDate · Sep 21, 2019

Why would anyone vent a fire suppression system to the water tank?

Lazy Daze · Sep 21, 2019

PlayDate said:
Why would anyone vent a fire suppression system to the water tank?

Really? You don't like Halon flavored water?

PlayDate · Sep 21, 2019

Lazy Daze said:
Really? You don't like Halon flavored water?

So....when the Halon goes off....it blows the water tank at the same time? That's creative.

Marc Rainaldo · Sep 21, 2019

Hahaha yeah it sound strange but the hose goes true a space and at the other side small hoses come out and go to the halo system. Problem is always that some areas on board are so hard to reach...... any boat men will know that

Lazy: looking at the vent line, you really think that’s a low spot/dip. For me is hard to believe. We filled the tank number of times 3/4 but no bulging.

maybe i could make a alarm sensor when tank is at 3/4 or 4/5 I will be remembered to turn off filling

Leak in watertank

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