Cat vs Man Diesel Engines

electricaldoctor

Well-Known Member
TECHNICAL Contributor
May 14, 2008
3,538
Thousand Islands, Rockport, Ontario.
Boat Info
1988 390 EC
Engines
454 Mercruiser Gassers
(2) Cat C18 @ 1150 HP each
(2) Man V8-1200 @ 1200 HP each

What are the pros and cons for making an informed decision on which power group to opt for?
My long range cruising area could be anywhere in the Carribbean, so quality service availability away from the mainland USA would be a major factor.

~Ken
 
Ken - anyway you look at it, engine parts need to come from the mainland. And, I'd say that in the heat of the battle with a boat disabled somewhere outside of the US, parts availability and rapid delivery are essential. Cat would be my answer.
Tom
 
The MAN importer, performance diesel, is here in Kemah Tx. They are top notch folks and really know the business. That said I still like CAT engines because they’re service network is much larger and mechanics seem easier to find as well as parts. Typically CAT uses a larger block to make power and I always feel more comfortable with that but the C18 is the exception and they are proving to be good engines.

On this example I wouldn’t let my preference of engines determine the sale but the rest of the boat.
 
One consideration might be service costs. No diesel is cheap to have worked on, but my general impression is CAT is less expensive than MAN, when it comes to having someone out to the boat, or purchasing parts. Proximity to a good dealer might make a big difference.
 
I am also looking at upgrading our boat and thinking the same thing. Looking at some of the cost for the 1000 hr. service is scary. Have seen comments of $12000 to $20000. Hope a lot of people chime in that have mans.
 
But, Performance diesel in TX is just a US distributor for the Southern and Eastern regions if the US. They are not going to be of any help to a Canadian owner or to someone who travels to the Bahamas for extended periods of time.

However, if the owner was having problems with MANs is a Sea Ray, he has some leverage because Sea Ray bought the MANs engines from Performance Diesel.....how much is a question because Performance diesel lost their largest MAN customer when Brunswick closed the Palm Coast and Sykes Creek factories. I wouldn't count on much.........

I have experience in running and managing boats with both Cat and MAN power. Both are great engine builders and I love certain things about both brands. Cat is an international company and services their products thru authorized dealers everywhere. Parts are generally available everywhere since Cat put a lot of thought into owner support by bering sure there is a wide availability of trained technicians and parts. There have been very few C-18 parts issues on the few Sea Rays with C-18's and most if not all were handled under warranty. In most cases, the technician has the suspected parts on his truck with him when he arrives.

The MAN story is one of both good news and bad news.........if you pay the price and maintain MANs, a breakdown underway is extremely rare. They are very dependable. I help manage a MAN powered 55 Viking Convertible and in 4500 hours, we have has 2 major service calls......one at 2000 hours ($18,000) and that one is so high because it involves a partial tear down to examine cylinder wear patterns; and one at 3800 hours ($12,000) ....we joke about that being one expensive oil change. Other than those 2 visits by a MAN dealer's Technician, all the other maintenance and repairs have been minimal and done by a local MAN servicing dealer, the owner or me. The real knock on MAN engines is the availability of properly equipped technician on a local basis. A lot of their service is handled by authorized servicers who don't stock parts other then a few filters, etc. We have one in NW Florida, a 4 man company, with 2 service trucks and he covers the area from Gulf Shores AL to Steinhatchee, Florida. Scheduling him is a challenge because he is also an authorized servicing dealer for Westerbeke, Cummins, Onan, John Deere, etc. and he generally has a 6-8 week waiting list from March to Nov in our area. Other areas don't have as high a concentration of MAN owners so in some locations MAN service is good but sometimes it is worse than spotty.

My experience with Cats is that their requires service schedule is far less onerous than MAN's. You aren't going to make a bad choice with either engine as long as you spend the $$ for thorough engine surveys. There is one exception.......there is a 10 cylinder MAN produces several years ago that automatically turned off 5 of its 10 cylinders to be more economical at slower speeds. They will shake your teeth loose below 1200 rpm and I wouldn't own them.
 
You heard it Ken, all spot-on good intell.

I have run both brands and many models within those brands, and have had extensive conversations on the dock, and boat shows, on which engine I prefer. My preference is the same as yours.... not to be tied do a dock because of a downed motor, period. Regardless of brand, or gold star service, if the damn thing never broke we wouldn't be having this discussion. But they ALL break, and they all require pampering like a new born. That puts on the service side of ownership a little more important than the performance side. The boats I have run with the MAN engines sure like to leap into action and haul butt. They have power from the bottom, up through the throttle range. I have run the east coast-gulf coast-up the Houston Ship Channel more than once with MANs under me and never missed a beat. The extremely rare times I had an alarm or concern that required a look, I started off by calling my bud's at Performance Diesel (you heard them in previous post) and they had me pull that plug, push that button and so on, and damn if it didn't start right up and off I went. Notice how I just went from bragging on their power but ended with their service and support. I know the guys personally at Performance Diesel (PDI) and they are the best but, I was driving a brand new, joint venture product with their engines and your favorite brand yacht under me, great package. As FW mentioned, PDI is not a current supplier of the brand for obvious reasons so your decision needs to be based on a relationship with the nearest/local MAN service dude. I would do my best to have a pre-purchase discussion with him, just to have a firm grasp on his availability, ability (MAN cert?), cost (hr fee?). I say "service dude" because the person whom you talk to, very well may be the owner of the business himself. I know more than a few MAN service shops that are in fact, Walt and his son, or Carl, or so on, across the land. That differs from calling and outfit like CAT, which you have to ask for Marine Division first, then service, then to some one who can schedule a tech visit. So obviously to me buying a certain motor brand, has me doing homework on the coverage and service availability around me.
CAT on the other hand has a service network that is dang near everywhere. Don't get the impression they are sitting around waiting on your call, I guarantee you they are busy these days with a steady stream of heavy equipment they service and fix. When things are being built, CAT is involved. Translated, that means there have been times when I required some assistance in the most remote places, and the big 'ole boy showing up came from the truck stop out on the highway, said "I aint never seen nut'in like this thing" before climbing on, replacing a part and sending me on my way. He, CAT, had that part in stock. I thanked him tremendously.
I just returned home last night from talking a L650 to the west coast of FLA to avoid Dorian, and back here to Port Canaveral, and the CAT C-18's in that boat hummed the whole way without a flaw.

So have we answered your question? Probably not, because you need to do some local homework, and have a chat with the local OEM cert repair shops. Tell them your intentions on a purchase and ask their desire to be your service center. I would even walk the dock over to the biggest boats in the marina, hoping to inquire with those guys, who their service preference is. Every one of them will tell you about "their guy" which is a great starting point for you. Go to the next boat show (FLIBS) where the engine manufacturers are, and ask how their engines are support after the initial warranties expire. I photo all business cards which say "service manager" or such, on it....not so much Sales cards though.

When you say Caribbean, meaning Bahamas (praying for the Grand Bahamas, Abacos) and south, you can find some support on each brand, but far and few because of island size. New Providence Island (Nassau) has service help. Anywhere near Bimini or such, I would one engine it back to Lauderdale, which is the motherland of all boating needs. CAT service in the US is probably second to none, but in other countries, brands like MAN, MTU etc, are well represented and supported. You may even find as I have, the CAT guy is also the MAN in those places.

I would want to feel comfortable knowing who can help me if needed, before I wrote the check. Count CSR has one of your assets. There are guys on here who can be a great help in locating local service guys who are worth a bottle of Jack!

R
 
Thank you everyone for your insights. The final decision is a major financial commitment indeed as we are not talking about swapping out an outdated stereo system a year later. You pays your money and takes your chances. Both power options sound very reliable, but if I am hearing correctly, the overal service expenses for "MAN" sound more expensive than "CAT" and the "CAT" parts & service network sounds very impressive by comparison. On the other hand, I like the "Dealing with the Owner" approach that "MAN" offers rather than the corporate system that one must deal with when using "CAT" for repairs, etc. So many pros & cons ... I have now heard from very experienced boat operators from both camps, now it would be interesting to hear from seasoned Service Techs that have worked on both engines to get their unbiased perspective.
 
The Caterpillar system does not force you to go thru a gate keeper unless you are in an area where you don’t know a soul and have to go thru a dealer search to find a local dealer.

I’ve had Cat engines for 20+ years. I use a local Cat dealer in Florida for any work that requires a dealer and the best local diesel mechanic for non-Cat specific tasks ( he happens to work for Florida Detroit Diesel). For non-time sensitive parts I use the Cat dealer in Nashville near my home in Tennessee......I’m on a first name basis with a couple of their parts guys so I just call with a list of filters, fluids, etc. then I stop by the next day and pick the order up. It just couldn’t be easier or simpler.

Most Caterpillar dealers are far from one man shops....they are well organized, have multiple mechanics and service trucks and thousands of square feet dedicated to local parts needs plus, the area parts distribution centers make daily deliveries to the dealers. Even on the strangest parts needs I have never waited more than 2 days for parts to arrive.
 
The Caterpillar system does not force you to go thru a gate keeper unless you are in an area where you don’t know a soul and have to go thru a dealer search to find a local dealer.

I’ve had Cat engines for 20+ years. I use a local Cat dealer in Florida for any work that requires a dealer and the best local diesel mechanic for non-Cat specific tasks ( he happens to work for Florida Detroit Diesel). For non-time sensitive parts I use the Cat dealer in Nashville near my home in Tennessee......I’m on a first name basis with a couple of their parts guys so I just call with a list of filters, fluids, etc. then I stop by the next day and pick the order up. It just couldn’t be easier or simpler.

Most Caterpillar dealers are far from one man shops....they are well organized, have multiple mechanics and service trucks and thousands of square feet dedicated to local parts needs plus, the area parts distribution centers make daily deliveries to the dealers. Even on the strangest parts needs I have never waited more than 2 days for parts to arrive.
Just ordered oil filters for my 3116's. The online ordering and help couldn't of been easier. Only thing was it told me I would get the shipment on 9/10. Received it the next day...
 
I whole-heartedly agree with you Frank. When all is said and done, it all comes down to service & the "CAT" network is nothing to sneeze at. I've seen them in action at various marinas over the years and have always been impressed with their no-nonsense approach to quality service. Sounds like a no-brainer to me ... I guess that I just required affirmation of what I already suspected. The input/advice offered here on CSR is invaluable & very much appreciated. Unless anybody else has something additional to offer, I think that we can stick a fork in this thread ... I got what I came for.
 
Just ordered oil filters for my 3116's. The online ordering and help couldn't of been easier. Only thing was it told me I would get the shipment on 9/10. Received it the next day...


A trick on Caterpillar parts is that Caterpillar uses the same base engine for many applications. There are some auxillary parts that mat be different but my dealer in Nashville has many more 3116's in school buses, GM Kodiak trucks, Cat 912 road graders and street sweepers than in boats. This is a large construction/earth moving dealer, many of the same filters, fluids, gaskets, etc also fit marine 3116's........just take your arrangement or serial number to the Cat store and t hey can immediately tell if the parts they have are applicable to your engine. The Cat dealer charges a lot less for parts away from the water than do their dealers who service marine users. A WIX oil filter for my 3116 engines costs $26.00 at the NAPA aftermarket parts house......I just paid $16.68 for oil filters at the Cat dealer this morning........you bet I'm going to use Cat OEM filters.
 
Last edited:
A trick on Caterpillar parts is that Caterpillar uses the same base engine for many applications. There are some auxillary parts that mat be different but my dealer in Nashville has many more 3116's in school buses, GM Kodiak trucks, Cat 912 road graders and street sweepers than in boats. This is a large construction/earth moving dealer, many of the same filters, fluids, gaskets, etc also fit marine 3116's........just take your arrangement or serial number to the Cat store and t hey can immediately tewll if the parts they have are applicable to your engine. The Cat dealer charges a lot less for parts away from the water than do t heir dealers who service marine users. A WIX oil filter for my 3116 engines costs $26.00 at the NAPA aftermarket parts house......I just paid $16.68 for oil filters at the Cat dealer this morning........you bet I'm going to use Cat OEM filters.

I thought I had oil filters on board but realized they were the secondary fuel filters. Then I went to Napa first because that's what was on them now. Napa didn't have any in stock so I never got to talk price. I then went on line to my Cat account and ordered them for... Yep... $16.68. Bought more than 3 so I got free shipping also... and then the one day delivery.
 
Cat place around here is really big and very busy.
If I absolutely needed a Cat employee to do something I may have to wait a fairly long time for my appointment date to come.
But if I had a problem that another competent diesel mechanic could take care of with Cat parts there wouldn’t be a problem because their parts department is really big and well stocked.
They service and sell parts for all kinds of commercial construction equipment and those construction guys would probably buy other equipment if they had to wait on Cat parts.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,948
Messages
1,422,805
Members
60,930
Latest member
Ebrown69
Back
Top