Bad Starter...or Battery?!

Gunn

Well-Known Member
TECHNICAL Contributor
Oct 4, 2006
2,335
Potomac River - MD
Boat Info
2003 280DA and 1995 Sea Ray 175
Engines
Twin 4.3l and 3.0l, all w/ AlphaI GenII drives
A few weeks ago my 280DA starboard engine wouldn't turn over. Thankfully the port engine fired right up and I wasn't far from home.

I knew the Optima marine battery that is connected to the starboard engine (and generator) was getting old (2012!). So I assumed that was the problem. Purchased a brand new battery (trying Banshee marine battery this time), fully charged it and installed. It sat on the on-board charger for a week or so. Yesterday went to start the starboard engine...wouldn't turn over. Ughhh!

I put it on an Optima portable charger, which showed it over 75% charged. It fully charged in just an hour or two. Immediately tried to start, won't turn over. The starter solenoid will engage...you'll hear the loud click and the engine will try to move. With the engine hatch up, I can see the serpentine belt on the front just barely budge when the solenoid engages.

Now I could try to swap batteries, but...I'm guessing the brand-new battery is fine. So next up would be the starter. Is this a common symptom of a bad starter?

I imagine this is NOT going to be fun to change on this boat!

Thanks,

Tom
 
Usually a shift interrupt switch (which keeps you from starting the engine in gear) or the engine slave solenoid (located on top of the engine next to the red circuit breaker button) is a more likely the culprit if the battery is charged.
 
Usually a shift interrupt switch (which keeps you from starting the engine in gear) or the engine slave solenoid (located on top of the engine next to the red circuit breaker button) is a more likely the culprit if the battery is charged.

Interesting, thanks. If it were the shift interrupt switch, would you still hear the starter solenoid click engage? I would not think you would...
 
I would have to pull up the schematic from your boat but I would speculate that primary start voltage (yellow/red) goes from:
1) the start key switch to
2) the shift interrupt switch to
3) the starter slave switch to
4) the starter solenoid itself.

Depending on the boat....the wiring sequence can be different but it will have the same components.

If it is the shift interrupt.....you would hear nothing. If it is the starter slave switch.....you will hear a barely audible click. If it is the starter solenoid itself.....you will hear a louder click. My money is on the starter slave or shift interrupt switch.

Shift interrupt telltale is wiggling the shifter while turning the key. If it fires up....the switch is going.
 
Last edited:
$15 and super easy to replace Starter Slave Solenoid.

4111Ytd5dzL.jpg
 
A few weeks ago my 280DA starboard engine wouldn't turn over. Thankfully the port engine fired right up and I wasn't far from home.

I knew the Optima marine battery that is connected to the starboard engine (and generator) was getting old (2012!). So I assumed that was the problem. Purchased a brand new battery (trying Banshee marine battery this time), fully charged it and installed. It sat on the on-board charger for a week or so. Yesterday went to start the starboard engine...wouldn't turn over. Ughhh!

I put it on an Optima portable charger, which showed it over 75% charged. It fully charged in just an hour or two. Immediately tried to start, won't turn over. The starter solenoid will engage...you'll hear the loud click and the engine will try to move. With the engine hatch up, I can see the serpentine belt on the front just barely budge when the solenoid engages.

Now I could try to swap batteries, but...I'm guessing the brand-new battery is fine. So next up would be the starter. Is this a common symptom of a bad starter?

I imagine this is NOT going to be fun to change on this boat!

Thanks,
Tom


If as stated you see the serp. belt move, my bet is on the starter. Or, worse yet and your not gonna like it...…..

Hydro lock.
 
If as stated you see the serp. belt move, my bet is on the starter. Or, worse yet and your not gonna like it...…..

Hydro lock.

Mitch .......I didn't want to go there because it opens up a terrible can of worms. I'm still hoping it is just an electrical problem. I guess we will see what happens when he pulls the spark plugs and spins the engine.......
 
That was my initial thought.
Mine too-feel like he is chasing ghost symptoms. If he sees the belt move, the starter is engaging. Not saying the starter motor might be bad, but I would pull starter first and try to engage it without being mechanically connected to flywheel. Granted, the motor part could still be weak and spin without load. But it is a start. And I agree, pull plugs as well and see if that helps with the spin...
 
You guys are freaking me out...

Well at least if if hydro locked, it did it shut off and not running, so hopefully no damage occurred. I did replace all manifolds and risers last summer... The boat is usually kept on a lift, however I was anchored for a couple of hours when the engine wouldn't restart.

I will get down to the boat on Friday and start some more troubleshooting. Probably pull plugs first to see where we're at.

Thanks,

Tom
 
Tom....I'm still pulling for you.....I hope it is something electrical.... just a loose battery or ground cable. Anything else is just not worth worrying about because there is nothing you can do except take the engine apart.
 
Ok....bad news. Hydro locked on the starboard side of the starboard engine.

As you can imagine I have done a lot of reading about this issue now. Since my boat hydrolocked while sitting at anchor with the engine off, the consensus I have been reading indicates that the engine is probably fine. Remove plugs, spin the engine and then install new plugs and you're done.

My immediate concern is arresting the rust that may be happening within the cylinder. I'm thinking I'll spray fogging oil into the spark plug port heavily and then turn over the engine.

My other concern is...HOW did this happen? Remember I said I replaced all manifolds, spacers and elbows last summer. So, I assume the water intrusion is coming from a bad gasket between these parts, right? I did have an awful time with the gaskets that came with the parts I ordered from PPT; the parts are HGE brand and their gaskets suck. They include O-rings and a separate gasket. Those O-rings like to slide around easily no matter what. I'm guessing that an O-ring slid slightly off-center, uncovering the water port to the interior side, the exhaust gas of the manifold. Does this seem like the problem? I'll pull the components on that side and get new Mercruiser gaskets.

Thanks everyone for your tips and suggesting; even though I have a bad problem, it saved me from doing unnecessary work!

Tom
 
I've seen hydrolock happen, at anchor, with too many people sitting on the ass end of the boat.
 
Ok....bad news. Hydro locked on the starboard side of the starboard engine.

As you can imagine I have done a lot of reading about this issue now. Since my boat hydrolocked while sitting at anchor with the engine off, the consensus I have been reading indicates that the engine is probably fine. Remove plugs, spin the engine and then install new plugs and you're done.

My immediate concern is arresting the rust that may be happening within the cylinder. I'm thinking I'll spray fogging oil into the spark plug port heavily and then turn over the engine.

My other concern is...HOW did this happen? Remember I said I replaced all manifolds, spacers and elbows last summer. So, I assume the water intrusion is coming from a bad gasket between these parts, right? I did have an awful time with the gaskets that came with the parts I ordered from PPT; the parts are HGE brand and their gaskets suck. They include O-rings and a separate gasket. Those O-rings like to slide around easily no matter what. I'm guessing that an O-ring slid slightly off-center, uncovering the water port to the interior side, the exhaust gas of the manifold. Does this seem like the problem? I'll pull the components on that side and get new Mercruiser gaskets.

Thanks everyone for your tips and suggesting; even though I have a bad problem, it saved me from doing unnecessary work!

Tom


Tom,

The good news is that you are fresh water (for the most part). Your approach is fine. I probably would use WD 40 just because it has penetrating oil in it. When you pull the plugs....water should come out of the offending cylinders as you rotate the engine by hand. I'm curious what leaked especially since you have been using the boat since you replaced the manifolds and risers.

As Scoflaw mentioned it could be as simple as wave action overcoming the exhaust system and dumping water into the exhaust ports. You just won't know unless you find a bad gasket in the offending side. If water was found in both banks.....it probably is a result of water flooding the exhaust.

Insofar as the engine goes.....it hopefully will be okay. The last one I saw with a similar issue lasted five years before it gave up due to cylinder scoring/oil consumption. The key is getting it running as soon as possible.
 
Ok....bad news. Hydro locked on the starboard side of the starboard engine.

As you can imagine I have done a lot of reading about this issue now. Since my boat hydrolocked while sitting at anchor with the engine off, the consensus I have been reading indicates that the engine is probably fine. Remove plugs, spin the engine and then install new plugs and you're done.

My immediate concern is arresting the rust that may be happening within the cylinder. I'm thinking I'll spray fogging oil into the spark plug port heavily and then turn over the engine.

My other concern is...HOW did this happen? Remember I said I replaced all manifolds, spacers and elbows last summer. So, I assume the water intrusion is coming from a bad gasket between these parts, right? I did have an awful time with the gaskets that came with the parts I ordered from PPT; the parts are HGE brand and their gaskets suck. They include O-rings and a separate gasket. Those O-rings like to slide around easily no matter what. I'm guessing that an O-ring slid slightly off-center, uncovering the water port to the interior side, the exhaust gas of the manifold. Does this seem like the problem? I'll pull the components on that side and get new Mercruiser gaskets.

Thanks everyone for your tips and suggesting; even though I have a bad problem, it saved me from doing unnecessary work!

Tom

It could also happen if you come off plane too quickly. Your own wake catches up to you and pushed water up into the exhaust. Did you come off plane quickly and shut down the engine very soon after?

And like was mentioned before, don’t just get the water out of the cylinders, get the engine running ASAP and go for a ride.
 
Remove the water hose from that manifold, direct the hose into the bilge, and GET THE MOTOR RUNNING TO DRY IT OUT.
15-20 seconds at the most, let cool and do it again.
Then find out how the water got in there
 
If it were me I'd drain the water via the plugs, squirt ATF fluid in each cylinder that possibly had water in it. Let it sit and turn it over by hand. repeat a few times, trying to get atf in right before BDC. I'd also do it one last time and let it sit over night.

After this put the plugs back in and fire it up if it idles well and is happy, change the oil and pin down where the water came from.

ATF is pretty good at displacing water and removing crud, plus any getting passed the oill ring won't harm the engine.

What you need to watch for is obviously bent rods or damaged rod bearings, you'll know once it's running.

Also as you're turning over feel for hard spots this will give you a good indication .
 
A few weeks ago my 280DA starboard engine wouldn't turn over. Thankfully the port engine fired right up and I wasn't far from home.

I knew the Optima marine battery that is connected to the starboard engine (and generator) was getting old (2012!). So I assumed that was the problem. Purchased a brand new battery (trying Banshee marine battery this time), fully charged it and installed. It sat on the on-board charger for a week or so. Yesterday went to start the starboard engine...wouldn't turn over. Ughhh!

I put it on an Optima portable charger, which showed it over 75% charged. It fully charged in just an hour or two. Immediately tried to start, won't turn over. The starter solenoid will engage...you'll hear the loud click and the engine will try to move. With the engine hatch up, I can see the serpentine belt on the front just barely budge when the solenoid engages.

Now I could try to swap batteries, but...I'm guessing the brand-new battery is fine. So next up would be the starter. Is this a common symptom of a bad starter?

I imagine this is NOT going to be fun to change on this boat!

Thanks,

Tom

Hi. I don't want to scare you off, but your story sounds bit too familiar... Of course your problems can be just electric or something in starter motor. Just want you to know what happened to me...

My 2002 4.3 MPI starboard engine, and port side only of it, was hydrolocked for the first time few weeks ago. I noticed it the same way as your engine behaved. Starter wouldn't turn the motor, I only heard the sound of solenoid clicking. I tried to turn motor by hand but it was clearly hydrolocked. I wasn't able to turn it at all. I took away spark plugs and turn the motor by hand and water came out from port side spark plug holes.

I pumped the water away from the cylinders, lubricated with WD-40 and started the engine. Engine started well and sounded good. I run the engine with different rpm for about 2 hrs with no problems. On a next day I tried to start it and it was hydrolocked again. I thought that hydrolock was caused by either the shutters in the exhaust y-pipe or leaking exhaust manifold, riser or gaskets because it was only on one side of the engine and oil was clean in the dipstick and what I was able to see from cap. After checking of those (and they were all good), I started to dismantle the engine more and I found that oil and water was mixed. It just wasn't visible before I took away the intake manifold. Intake manifold gasket showed little bit signs of water leakage. Same thing with head gaskets on both banks when I dismantled cylinder heads. Water jackets in cylinder heads and cylinder blocks were full of dirt. Sand, rust etc. It took hours to clean them. I took cylinder heads to machinery shop. Leaking side head was little bit "bended" (sorry I don´t know right word for it) and they fixed it. They also SAID that they checked the water channels for possible leakages but they were not leaking.

I put the engine back together with new gaskets, of course. Test run was perfect, no problems at all, but on a next day it was hydrolocked again. Machinery shop told me that my intake manifold could also leak so I took it for them to check with pressure. I wanted to do test of my own also and filled open water jackets from cylinder head and block with hot water to see if they leak. I let it stand for 24 hrs and then checked the level. It was almost the same, only 5 mm had disappeared. But then I turned the engine by hand and when exhaust valve in cylinder #5 opened water level dropped in water jacket and cylinder #5 filled with water.

I dismantled the cylinder head from that side again and took back into machinery shop. This time they actually checked the leakages with pressure... and there was corroded hole inside the water jacket nearby the exhaust valve.

New cylinder head should arrive within couple of days so I hope that my hydrolock problems are over then.
 

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