Replacing Canvas With Hardtop...

MonacoMike

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2009
14,721
Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
Boat Info
2000 Cruisers 3870
8.2 Mercs
Engines
85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
260hp Alpha 1
Maybe this exists and I missed it, but as I contemplate new canvas for my boat the thought came to me that it should not be a big deal for a company like Swimplatforms.com to also form and build matching hardtops that would attach to the arch and use a similar support structure to the canvas. They could form them to have a similar look to the early hardtop models and match the gelcoat or offer contrasting colors.

I'm certain that I am missing something here but what is the killer of this idea?

Cost? Weight? Supports? What is it?

MM
 
I think you would need more support than you do with canvas. Every hard top I have seen is supported by welded alum frames.
 
7D3FC126-0150-41BA-8A7A-B590C400A750.jpeg
Building molds for FRP structures is very labor intensive and each boat model and size would require a different mold. Custom work is what you likely would be looking at along with additional support.
The obvious solution these days would be carbon fiber structures for the weight savings but the cost of laying up those structures would be prohibitive. Most economical tops are going to be canvas even though there is built in obsolescence.
I’ve designed a new top for my 44DB to be done in Carbon fiber. I estimate at least 150 man hours in building a modle, then a mold and then the part. Materials would approach $1000 and that’s doing it myself. Instead I bought a commercial sewing machine and am teaching myself canvas fabrication. I now have a very real appreciation for professional canvas fabricators!
 
There was an article a few years back in Sea Ray living abaout a couple that had one built for their beloved 420DA (...maybe it was a 400?). Any way, they paid around 100k, but it looked damn good.
 
View attachment 71964 ... Instead I bought a commercial sewing machine and am teaching myself canvas fabrication. I now have a very real appreciation for professional canvas fabricators!

Interesting....Wish we lived nearby as I'm close to doing the same thing...It's hard for me to wrap my head around the pricing for canvas. Is it really that hard to sew a few panels? I'd love to have the breakdown / itemized costs.
 
To learn and practice, I volunteered to fabricate a new enclosure for a friend’s
36 foot Avanti. I used the existing top as a pattern and so far just built the top only. I’ll be doing the window panels over the next few months. I actually replaced all of the vinyl windows on my bridge this spring which was quite the learning curve. I bought a used Brother Industrial walking foot machine for $500. I only have about $300 in the top using top shelf Sunbrella. You end up with some start up costs with buying 100 yard rolls of consumables like binding and thread ect. Look up the how to videos at Sailrite.com. Great tutorials. I get the materials at wholesale from Keyston Brothers.
I totally get why the canvas fabricators charge what they do and I don’t think they are cutting a fat hog by charging what they do. It’s incredibly complicated and intricate work and easy to make expensive mistakes. That said, if you are at all handy and take your time, you can definitely build your own canvas structures. It’s not rocket science.
Carpe Diem
 
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Nice.... Take a look at the 400DA sometime and guess what you think it would cost to make a camper canvas...

I really like the functionality and how my top was made...Roll downs and bug screens...A total of 5 panels in the front /sides and 8 panels in the back...

400da campertop.jpg
 
I’ll know more in a few weeks as I embark on the rest of the Avanti’s enclosure. Remind me if you don’t hear back from me, it won’t be intentional I’ll probably forget where we were posting:(
 
Others that have fabricated their own may chime in, be interesting to know their experience and thoughts on the subject
 
A full enclosure on a 400DA with roll ups etc. would take me 60 hrs plus hours to do right. Hence the cost. Not even considering business insurance, taxes, materials, equipment, and the years spent acquiring the needed skills. Plumbers, auto mechanics, HVAC techs are $100 and hour no questions asked. People shell out $1500 annually for a buff and wax. I do agree canvas is very expensive to have custom made, but I am not staying in the game for $20 bucks an hour. That said, many of you are smart guys with more than average DIY skills so a good sewing machine and some tutorial videos and you may yield good results. I will also say it can be a real PIA....LOL! (....beware the "shaped" pieces under tension....ha ha).
 
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A friend built an awesome hardtop for this 400 Sedan Bridge. He built it like a wood boat with ribs and stringers and sheeted it with marine plywood, fiberglassed over the wood, profiled and finished in polyurethane. He then had to design and build the SS tube supports. It must be fifteen years old and looks like it was built yesterday. He still had to have a custom enclosure fabricated to fit the new top. The new owner just had the enclosure redone and dropped $11,000 on that.
 
Last year sometime there was a thread on here somewhere from a guy that built an aluminum hard top for his boat, if I remember right it looked really nice, most negative comments on his project were what he planned on using for the insulation on the underside of the roof.
 
For some reason this idea crossed my mind today so i started looking into it. @MonacoMike not sure whether you ever acted on this, but I found this video of a company constructing this for a center console. http://www.totalboat.com/2015/09/10/constructing-a-new-carbon-fiber-hard-top/

I thought the video gave a good idea of what would be involved in fabrication, and when you see them move the top around it can give you some idea of the finished weight. I would be interested in understanding how heavy the finished product is, and whether it could be supported by the existing canvas bimini poles (assuming you wouldn't walk on it) or whether it would need a new support structure. Attaching to the radar arch is another consideration, but it seems like you could work through that.
 
This was our project. My lessons I learned off this was: Build drip rails into the thing. And that I probably could have used a lighter aluminum. There are a couple angles I would like to change, like I think I would like to see the front of the front top dropped down a little more.
http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/aluminum-hard-top.86149/
 
Would anyone have any pictures of custom hard tops on Sundancers 320, 340, 380?
I'm looking for some design ideas for my planned conversion on my 340.

I've found a fibreglass shop that can do the work and they already did a 340 conversion a few years ago.

I'm looking to get something like this added to my 340 this winter.

Photo-344.jpg
 
Would anyone have any pictures of custom hard tops on Sundancers 320, 340, 380?
I'm looking for some design ideas for my planned conversion on my 340.

I've found a fibreglass shop that can do the work and they already did a 340 conversion a few years ago.

I'm looking to get something like this added to my 340 this winter.

Photo-344.jpg

Wow that is a tall top! If you do a search you'll find a user that recently built a custom hard top for a 400DA. If you're going to pay someone to do it...I imagine that's going to be a lotta boat bucks. A very labor intensive project. Money you may not necessarily get back out of the boat when you sell...
 

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