yearly maintenance cost of 38 vs. 46 Sundancer

M

merlin

Member
Jun 17, 2010
86
san francisco,ca/Marina del Ray, Ca
Boat Info
"Volare", a 2003 Sundancer 410, with original Raymarine electronics.
Engines
2, 350 hp, Cat 3126's
Hi everyone, I'm shopping for a 10 year old Sea Ray Sundancer between 38 and 46 Feet in California.

Other than dock fees, is there much of a difference in upkeep between the two lengths?
In addition to slip and insurance, I'm figuring on spending about $10,000 a year just for maintenance and repairs. Does that sound too low?

Is it much more difficult for two people to handle either of these sizes?

Will fuel be much much more for one vs. the other?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

Merlin
 
The first question you need to address is on the 380DA is the boat gas or diesel? Then,

Will you do any of your own maintenance?

Some costs on the water are quoted and charged by the foot. The 460 will, therefore, cost you more than a 380 for detailing, washing, haul-outs, bottom painting, diver's services, etc. Other costs are based on total value like insurance. If the 2 boats have the same engines, there will not be any difference in maintenance of the engines, but that isn't likely to happen, since the 460DA in all probability will have 6BTA Cummins . If the 380DA is diesel, and it should be, it will have Caterpillar engines and I have found them to be a little less expensive to maintain than Cummins, but not by enough to make any difference in my usual admonision: Buy as much boat as you can get your pocket book around and it will save you in the long run.


As far as ease of handling, we have a 450DA and I find the boat easier for 2 people to handle than much smaller boats. These boats are big, so there is no tendency to "make it fit". The result is you tend to be cautious to the point that you avoid tight spots and crowded areas.

both the 380 and the 460 are great boats. You can't go wrong with either one.
 
I'll be interested to see the responses to this as well. First thing that stands out is that the 380's in the states are all gas powered that I have seen. The 46 will be diesels. There are many threads which discuss the upfront added costs of diesels versus the fuel consumption and durability of them. Maintenance will be more expensive on diesels. My next boat will have them regardless. How long do you plan on owning this boat and what will you be using it for are 2 of the questions to ask yourself. Not sure the express style boat of a 380 will get as much use up in the bay. I'd be more interested in more internal space and a fly bridge for Norcal.
 
fwebster quote "Buy as much boat as you can get your pocket book around and it will save you in the long run."

Sound advice !! When I started looking it was the 400 or 410 and then before I knew it I was the proud owner of a "true" 450...... ( as opposed to todays 450 that is really a 390 ).
 
Although it will be a while before I graduate to the big leagues of diesels, it interests me to learn about the higher maintainance costs of them. I've seen threads that mention huge bills for some scheduled items. What is it that makes the diesels so pricey to maintain ?
 
Just looking at Yachtworld for this vintage 380, it looks like about 15% are diesel powered. I think there are only 3 of us on CSR and only about 4 in the mid atlantic area of the East Coast. I'm hoping that helps when it's time to sell!
 
So far my diesel boat is cheaper to maintain than my 280. I'll update you in a couple of years.
 
Turtlesboat said:
So far my diesel boat is cheaper to maintain than my 280. I'll update you in a couple of years.
Click to expand...


Tempting....Is this the official stepping model? Not to hijack the thread, but is it possible to dock the 450 solo?
 
The 450 is a dream to handle with 2 onboard. It is simpler to manage when you have someone on the forward deck to handle lines, but these boats are easy to single hand. I do it frequently when my wife is "boated out" wants to go shopping!

The side decks are wide so it is a quick trip to leave the controls to set a spring line then resume docking.

I moved up to the 45 from a 390EC, Mike moved up from a 280DA..........the smaller boat you come from, the larger the intimidation factor. There is a lot of fiberglass in front of the windshield on a 450.
 
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Almost the same as my 280, maybe 5gph more. But I'm paying less for diesel fuel, in some places almost 80 cents less a gallon.

Handling, it's easier than my 280. The intimidation factor like Frank said, was my biggest hurdle. Coming from a 280, the 450 looks like an aircraft carrier. I also had the boat in a tight marina so basically the first time I took it out was very tough mentally. Once you put the boat in gear, you quickly get how easy and predictably she responds. I almost passed on this size boat due to intimidation. Frank called me a wussy, told me to get over it, and I'm glad I did.
 
With Caterpillar engines, at cruise the 450DA will burn a max of 22-26 GPH depending upon whether you have 3116's or 3126's. Most of us find this boat has a sweet spot at about 2250-2300 rpm, or about 80% power and that means your fuel burn goes down to about 18 gph, or about 1/2 that of a pair of big block gas engines in much smaller boats.

The real learning curve on handling any of the 380DA, 450DA or 460DA with diesels is that when you put them in gear, you better know where you are headed because you are going there right now. They squat and go.........no more waiting on little props to move enough water to make something happen.
 
I agree with Turtle. I moved up from a 26ft Glacier Bay 2685. Alot of it was mental. FrankW was so kind and patient with us and I still appreciate it to this day. I took about 6 hours of captain time and took it to Key Largo. 6 weeks later to Bahamas (All the way to Staniel Cay). The 450DA handles very well. It must because i didnot have a clue and it got us over there and back a couple of times. Most people donot believe fuel numbers. I run alittle slower than most(2100-2200) and get around 21-22 gph. A little better if seas are smooth. I still wish that FrankW would have a weekend SeaRay Academy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????? Go over these old girls so we would really know something. I looked at multiple boats during my epic boat search. Very happy with the 450DA. I can see us maybe, I say maybe, I say maybe moving up to a 500DA. As i get older i worry about 2 handling a 500 but not the 450. Iam 55 getting ready to turn over the meter again. Great health (Thank you Lord). So we will see. Good luck with your search. JC
 
fwebster said:
With Caterpillar engines, at cruise the 450DA will burn a max of 22-26 GPH depending upon whether you have 3116's or 3126's. Most of us find this boat has a sweet spot at about 2250-2300 rpm, or about 80% power and that means your fuel burn goes down to about 18 gph, or about 1/2 that of a pair of big block gas engines in much smaller boats.

The real learning curve on handling any of the 380DA, 450DA or 460DA with diesels is that when you put them in gear, you better know where you are headed because you are going there right now. They squat and go.........no more waiting on little props to move enough water to make something happen.
Click to expand...

That is considerably better than the 32.5 gph I average at cruise out here. As far as it being more responsive, that would be a welcome change when getting on a mooring in Catalina with a boat 2 feet away from you on each side and one 3 feet behind you. It takes steady nerves in this boat and a lot of "goosing" the throttle to get her where she needs to be before current or wind take over.
 
The dock I'm at now, when I spin her around... I've got 3' in front and 3' in back. Basically I can turn her in her length. Could never dream of doing that in my 280 with 15mph winds. I still get a little nervous once in awhile when I'm in very tight situations. Again like Frank said, you have to take a second before putting her in gear. Think about where it's going because it will go there. The great thing is this boat gives you that time to think. It's not blowing all over the place like my 280 did.

The one thing we were concerned with was if we would go out as much as we did with the 280. So far, we've been out every weekend. We go out more in this boat than we did before. 3's? No problem, we're going out. Wind? Pffft. Weather is much less a factor now. Not saying it isn't a factor but now I don't get a big knot in my gut when the wind is blowing 20mph and I have to dock.

It's a lot more to clean though, that I'm not going to sugar coat.
 
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