Calling all canvas people....Let's have an honest discussion....

CaptRonn said:
But a walking foot machine (about $500), watch the Sailtite videos, get some scrap material and practice. When you feel you’re ready, start on a section at a time. Prep is everything, make good templates, sew, fit, adjust, sew and fit.

You’ll have the satisfaction of a job done the way you want it. It’s not difficult, just tedious. You’ll have the advantage of doing multiple fittings which most shops won’t do.

There is nothing magic about doing canvas work. It will make a great project.
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Specialization a cornerstone of our society, it generally gives the buyer a better product at a better price. A person has but two things, time and money. Can I wash a boat. Absolutely! Am I better off doing what I do and paying to have the boat washed? Absolutely, I make way more per hour than the wash crew does.

I really couldn't care less about how much the canvas company makes. I do not care how much materials cost. I don't care if they quote $5000 and make a huge profit or lose their shirt.

All I care about in the end is what I get for what I pay.

MM
 
MonacoMike said:
Specialization a cornerstone of our society, it generally gives the buyer a better product at a better price. A person has but two things, time and money. Can I wash a boat. Absolutely! Am I better off doing what I do and paying to have the boat washed? Absolutely, I make way more per hour than the wash crew does.

I really couldn't care less about how much the canvas company makes. I do not care how much materials cost. I don't care if they quote $5000 and make a huge profit or lose their shirt.

All I care about in the end is what I get for what I pay.

MM
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I do all of my own work, maintenance and canvas/upholstery. I do it because I want a quality job, and I don’t like getting ripped off.

Back when I owned airplanes and helicopters (24 of them over time) I gained my FAA Airframe and Powerplant ratings for the same reason. Later I added the Inspection Authorization.

Aviation is similar to boating in that you have shops who feel that if you own the aircraft, then you certainly should be willing to pay premium prices “just because”.

I enjoy sewing and canvas work. It’s not hard, and I enjoy knowing it’s exactly the way I want it. And the saved money can be put to better use.

That’s why we have choices in this world. What works for you may not work for others.
 
MonacoMike said:
Specialization a cornerstone of our society, it generally gives the buyer a better product at a better price. A person has but two things, time and money. Can I wash a boat. Absolutely! Am I better off doing what I do and paying to have the boat washed? Absolutely, I make way more per hour than the wash crew does.

I really couldn't care less about how much the canvas company makes. I do not care how much materials cost. I don't care if they quote $5000 and make a huge profit or lose their shirt.

All I care about in the end is what I get for what I pay.

MM
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I agree Mike ;) Thanks for reminding me to call my boat detailer too!!
 
MonacoMike said:
Specialization a cornerstone of our society, it generally gives the buyer a better product at a better price. A person has but two things, time and money. Can I wash a boat. Absolutely! Am I better off doing what I do and paying to have the boat washed? Absolutely, I make way more per hour than the wash crew does.

I really couldn't care less about how much the canvas company makes. I do not care how much materials cost. I don't care if they quote $5000 and make a huge profit or lose their shirt.

All I care about in the end is what I get for what I pay.

MM
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While I agree, there are somethings I just like doing. Work sucks. Putzing around the boat does not.
 
MonacoMike said:
Specialization a cornerstone of our society,.....

All I care about in the end is what I get for what I pay.

MM
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I respect your decision and I'm certain it is that mentality that keeps prices where they are... Perhaps you would pay $3k to get your boat washed, I don't know. But, basically that's how I feel about this and I'm not buying into this the music will never stop economy... I guess I'm old school and showing my age....

I make what most people would consider substantial income. But I make it ethically....If I was to tell one of my contractors I'm charging double what I est. to be time and materials, I'd be out of business... I get a kick out of people trying to explain to me about small business.

Look, this whole process has been a learning experience.....I've enjoyed it.
 
CaptRonn said:
But a walking foot machine (about $500), watch the Sailtite videos, get some scrap material and practice. When you feel you’re ready, start on a section at a time. Prep is everything, make good templates, sew, fit, adjust, sew and fit.

You’ll have the satisfaction of a job done the way you want it. It’s not difficult, just tedious. You’ll have the advantage of doing multiple fittings which most shops won’t do.

There is nothing magic about doing canvas work. It will make a great project.
Click to expand...

Do you have a recommendation about a good machine to look for?
 
Boat Guy said:
I respect your decision and I'm certain it is that mentality that keeps prices where they are... Perhaps you would pay $3k to get your boat washed, I don't know. But, basically that's how I feel about this and I'm not buying into this the music will never stop economy... I guess I'm old school and showing my age....

I make what most people would consider substantial income. But I make it ethically....If I was to tell one of my contractors I'm charging double what I est. to be time and materials, I'd be out of business... I get a kick out of people trying to explain to me about small business.

Look, this whole process has been a learning experience.....I've enjoyed it.
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3K to get your boat washed??? That's ridiculous...…. I pay 120$
 
I would if I could afford 400$ and still keep my boat, Mikey is right on this one...….
 
Boat Guy said:
I respect your decision and I'm certain it is that mentality that keeps prices where they are... Perhaps you would pay $3k to get your boat washed, I don't know. But, basically that's how I feel about this and I'm not buying into this the music will never stop economy... I guess I'm old school and showing my age....

I make what most people would consider substantial income. But I make it ethically....If I was to tell one of my contractors I'm charging double what I est. to be time and materials, I'd be out of business... I get a kick out of people trying to explain to me about small business.

Look, this whole process has been a learning experience.....I've enjoyed it.
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If your not making 3X what it would cost (labor) doing what you love, to have your canvas done in the time it would it would take YOU to do it, then your not charging enough or you really don't love it.
 
Sometimes providers charge what they think you can afford. Good providers charge what the job is worth and are consistent. People with money tend not to overpay since they know when they are being taken advantage of. When we moved facilities a few years ago, we had all kinds. Guys would come in and assume we had money cause we where moving to a new place. Their prices where triple what they should have been. We gave the work to the guys who where consistent with us.
 
So happy you're well entertained at least that was free lol .
On a serious note though a full camper top enclosure for a boat like mine (268Da) is just north of 5g around here so I imagine about 8 or 9 for a boat like yours. When mine needs full replacement I'll likely have to do it myself since my economy as a single parent demands that. I also do most of my own work on everything( sometimes I wish I didnt lol) I will be looking for your posts about the processes and pitfalls to avoid. All the best and btw i think you're not a cheapskate if your willing to do the learning and work on it yourself , it'll likely cost you more in time but an education's gotta be worth something.
 
I wish you all the success, HT...I will likely follow this path and, as usual, post my observations to help others.

@Golfman25 I understand where you are coming from. Principle, character, integrity are just words thrown around these days. It's hard to find people that lead by example....Honestly, I'm getting tired of it, but in the same sense, I'm happy to do it....
 
Boat Guy said:
Do you have a recommendation about a good machine to look for?
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Eric,

A Singer 111-155 or its later version, the 211-155 (which is faster but you don't need speed), or its Consew copy are industrial walking foot lockstitch machines and are great upholstery/canvas/upholstery machines. Pfaff, and Juki also made walking foot machines but will be significantly more expensive than an older Singer. Just stay away from home duty machines.

However, try to find one with a table, stand and motor already set up for 120V current. A 240V set up is typical for apparel use and is usually a 3 phase motor. Converting a bargain 211-155 head - TS&M can cost twice the cost of the sewing head so try to fine one that has already been converted.

Sailrite makes a line of light weight portable sewing machines that have a compound feed mechanism that are good for simple projects like canvas work. Sailrite is a good company to work with because they also sell most of the attachments you will need....presser feet, guides, folders etc. as well as threads and fabric.

https://www.sailrite.com/Sewing-Machines

I have a Singer 211-155 I took out of a jeans factory we were re-engineering about 20 years ago. It already has a 120V industrial clutch motor on it and it is on a newish stand with a fresh industrial table top. Its been sitting unused in the warehouse since I converted the stand. I'd sell it but the problem is going to be the location since it would cost as much as the machine is worth to have it crated, palletized and shipped to you.

Hope that helps.....


Frank
 
Boat Guy said:
Do you have a recommendation about a good machine to look for?
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I highly recommend the Sailrite machine. There are several out there that look similar but from what I have been told there were several customizations made to the model that Sailrite has manufactured. Additional there support team is great the owners are friendly and always willing to help. Additionally they stock most part should you need something for you machine down the road. Also note all those videos that people reference are published free... they deserve your support if you find value in them.

Yes, I own an LSZ-1 and I do use it almost daily - it's also a portable setup that I can take with me. I did have a table made for it so that it could remain a grab and go.

Whilie it's a bit more money the Fabricator model looks to be fantastic. Its a little larger and comes with a servo motor which will give you better low speed control. There model does not have a needle positioner but should work well for any project and it comes with the table.

Just stay away from any old "commercial" machines that have clutch motors - that is unless you want to immediately swap out the motor for a servo. The constant running, noise and buzz will drive you nuts.

-Kevin
 
Thanks guys for taking the time to give your thoughts... So look for a servo motor...Got it... 120V for sure...

I'll look at those machines. I obviously know about the Sailrite and I looked at their video last night about the "lookalikes", though I'm not convinced there is much difference.

This machine was recommended and I was thinking of pulling the trigger, but it doesn't say servo motor. I'm speculating that the new machines all have servos? It's only the used old machines to be concerned about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232059984708?ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true

EDIT:

I called https://walking-foot.ca/about/ who sells the machine on ebay and he told me it's not a servo motor, nor is the Sailrite...So I'm a bit confused. --Rereading what you are saying, I guess a clutch motor is constantly on (makes sense) and engages a clutch when sewing. Though a servo motor he said was industrial and too heavy for reasonable shipping. He suggested buying locally....I'm guessing for my purposes the 1.5A motor on this machine will be fine.
 
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Clutch motors were the industrial standard for 50+ years. The noise comes from the fact that the electric motor rotates 100% of the time the switch is on. Then there is the clutch slippage that occurs when you press the treadle or try to sew very slowly, so they can it can be noisey, but they are not electronic motors so they aren't as prone to moisture issues.

The advantage of old commercial machines is that they are true walking foot machines (the presser foot is driven so it and the feed dog move together) and when the machine makes a stitch so there is no slippage or stacked up stitches when you sew over a seam. A lot of the cheaper imported heavy duty machines do not have true walking feet but have a section in the foot that is driven off the feed dog to mimic a walking foot. Be sure you get a real walking foot sewing head.

The Sailrite machines are excellent ......I've got a zig-zag model LSZ-1. It is so tough that I think you could sew corn cobs together with it. My only criticism is that it is a relatively short arm machine and that makes sewing large panels tricky. Sailrite has great customer service and they probably have enough parts available on their website to build a sewing head.
 
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