Calling all canvas people....Let's have an honest discussion....

I think I might start a gofundme.... Isn't that what the millennials do? Thanks for the materials cost info...What did you use for vinyl and material?


I'm thinking sunbrella / strataglass (or Regalite 40mil) and the ptfe thread...
I’m using Sunbrella fabric with a 40 mil clear vinyl the brand has escaped me at the moment and 1 inch binding for the edges. The thread is poly 92 great UV resistant and sews nicely. I bought the Ptfe thread in clear but I don’t like the looks of the finished stitch on the dark blue canvas so I use black which nearly disappears. Still learning and seeking guidance wherever I can. Some is actually useful :cool:
 
I hesitated to pay what we did to redo our bridge enclosure but after seeing the build quality (inside and out) and thoughtfulness that went into it i think it was worth it. I've stood on the bridge in torrential down pours looking for leaks and I've yet to find one.

Our bridge enclosure was redone complete with the tops a month before we bought our boat. As yours is, we have “0” leaks. I treat the top with 303 every fall. Had a full set of seat covers made so we could remove the enclosure for this summer and love not having it on now. Not something you would want to take on and off everyday though.

Bennett
 
Thanks for sharing....Nice touches...Mine has all that but the velcro and the gasketing / rubber seal around the windshield....Nice job.
My old canvas is still serviceable and is about 20 years old it was custom job from a place in Canada that the owner retired and shut down 15 years back . There are clear vinyl or rubber seals on all panels where the enclosure meets the boat which makes a nice bug proof seal . When I have to replace it in a few years I'll be insisting on this because i gave no spiders,noseeums, blackflies or mosquitos when it's on. A small time shp did my screens and front eisenglass panels for 250 Canadian dollars
 
My old canvas is still serviceable and is about 20 years old it was custom job from a place in Canada that the owner retired and shut down 15 years back . There are clear vinyl or rubber seals on all panels where the enclosure meets the boat which makes a nice bug proof seal . When I have to replace it in a few years I'll be insisting on this because i gave no spiders,noseeums, blackflies or mosquitos when it's on. A small time shp did my screens and front eisenglass panels for 250 Canadian dollars

This does bring one thing to mind. When you are spec'ing out screens keep in mind that there are different levels and some are general screens and some are finer mesh targeting the noseeums.

-Kevin
 
This does bring one thing to mind. When you are spec'ing out screens keep in mind that there are different levels and some are general screens and some are finer mesh targeting the noseeums.

-Kevin
Thanks Kevin.... Do you have a recommendation for screens?

@Handsome Transom , never heard of rubber seals... Perhaps someone here will chime in.... Congrats on your canvas...It's hard finding "that guy"...
 
Thanks Kevin.... Do you have a recommendation for screens?

@Handsome Transom , never heard of rubber seals... Perhaps someone here will chime in.... Congrats on your canvas...It's hard finding "that guy"...
I will get pack to this post with a picture of the seals sewn into the bottom edge of my panels. I will insist on them in any enclosure purchase because they really keep the creepy crawlies outa my boat
 
I will try to remember to get a pic of my seals tonight. Mine is just like a piece of weatherstripping on a car door. It's very soft and compresses a little when you snap the panel.
 
I spoke with a canvas guy today that was real friendly...He's not in my area, but he spent some time discussing pricing. He told me his price was $90/hour... I said ok, is my estimation of $2k in materials about right....He said that's about what it would cost me, but he gets much better deals...I said ok....I asked if 40 hours was about right and he said he could do it in less. He said he just did a larger boat 65' in 68 hours and it had a lot more work. Since he actually owned a dancer before, he knew it well...He said he could do it in 35 hours...I said ok, but use the $2k material cost and 40hrs labor is $5600...His price to do it was $11k, I asked him to explain and he couldn't....
 
I will get pack to this post with a picture of the seals sewn into the bottom edge of my panels. I will insist on them in any enclosure purchase because they really keep the creepy crawlies outa my boat

I believe you are referring to "rubber spray welt". It is commonly used around a windshield edge so that when the canvas snaps down it compresses the tube to create a seal. Also used on the outside of visors to create a seal against the bimini when they are zipped in. It can be used anywhere that attaches to help create a barrier seal. Think of it as weatherstripping.

Spray Welt.jpg

-Kevin
 
Thanks Kevin.... Do you have a recommendation for screens?

Depends on if you want pretty, basic functional or no-see-um protection.

For pretty/colorful some people will use Standard Phifertex although its kind of heavy, otherwise Phifertex makes insect or no-see-um screening in grey or charcoal.

-Kevin
 
I spoke with a canvas guy today that was real friendly...He's not in my area, but he spent some time discussing pricing. He told me his price was $90/hour... I said ok, is my estimation of $2k in materials about right....He said that's about what it would cost me, but he gets much better deals...I said ok....I asked if 40 hours was about right and he said he could do it in less. He said he just did a larger boat 65' in 68 hours and it had a lot more work. Since he actually owned a dancer before, he knew it well...He said he could do it in 35 hours...I said ok, but use the $2k material cost and 40hrs labor is $5600...His price to do it was $11k, I asked him to explain and he couldn't....
If he did the job to your "complete" satisfaction in 20 hours would you still be ok with him charging $3,150.00 labor?
 
If he did the job to your "complete" satisfaction in 20 hours would you still be ok with him charging $3,150.00 labor?

Sure, in a manner of speaking... as it's an estimate of reasonable time. I don't think you should pad your est. hours but if you think it takes 40 or 35 and I agree to it and you can get it done in 30-25 hours then so be it...I'm not standing over him and he should be honest. Same thing goes the other way though. In other words, I wouldn't want a call saying ooops it's really 50 or 60 hours.

To your point, even when he said I can do it in 35 hours I said let's make it 40 and gave him a cushion....I wouldn't be please if he was deceiving and knew he could knock it out in 20.

It's a bit like double dipping.... A canvas guys wants to be paid a high rate for his skill and services, yet wants to est. time for someone without the skill. Make sense? Either it takes you longer because you don't have the experience and you have a lower hourly rate. Or, you have a higher hourly rate and knock it out quicker....

But, as I feel 35-40 hours is probably right (according to Quint and this canvas guy), yes I would...
 
Sure, in a manner of speaking... as it's an estimate of reasonable time. I don't think you should pad your est. hours but if you think it takes 40 or 35 and I agree to it and you can get it done in 30-25 hours then so be it...I'm not standing over him and he should be honest. Same thing goes the other way though. In other words, I wouldn't want a call saying ooops it's really 50 or 60 hours.

To your point, even when he said I can do it in 35 hours I said let's make it 40 and gave him a cushion....I wouldn't be please if he was deceiving and knew he could knock it out in 20.

It's a bit like double dipping.... A canvas guys wants to be paid a high rate for his skill and services, yet wants to est. time for someone without the skill. Make sense? Either it takes you longer because you don't have the experience and you have a lower hourly rate. Or, you have a higher hourly rate and knock it out quicker....

But, as I feel 35-40 hours is probably right (according to Quint and this canvas guy), yes I would...

I think you will feel better if you stop worrying about the hours and just look at the quoted cost of the deliverables to you - whatever they may be and their value to you.

When you go to a car dealership do you ask them for the materials cost and the amount of time spent and the labor rates? It's pretty straight forward and a Hyundai and Mercedes are both cars and get you A to B but people associate a value and expect certain pricing. Yes, the Mercedes is probably going to cost more but I expect that - I don't try to calculate the time spent in the Mercedes build vs the build time of the Hyundai.

Now, lets relate this to canvas... if a shop invests in experienced operators, high tech computerized cutters and quality materials they can probably blast these things out faster than any tradesman and a much higher quality level - does that mean it should cost less?

Just some thoughts to ponder.

-Kevin
 
I spoke with a canvas guy today that was real friendly...He's not in my area, but he spent some time discussing pricing. He told me his price was $90/hour... I said ok, is my estimation of $2k in materials about right....He said that's about what it would cost me, but he gets much better deals...I said ok....I asked if 40 hours was about right and he said he could do it in less. He said he just did a larger boat 65' in 68 hours and it had a lot more work. Since he actually owned a dancer before, he knew it well...He said he could do it in 35 hours...I said ok, but use the $2k material cost and 40hrs labor is $5600...His price to do it was $11k, I asked him to explain and he couldn't....
If he got the exact materials that you requested for 1k and charged you 2k would that be ok ?
 
I believe you are referring to "rubber spray welt". It is commonly used around a windshield edge so that when the canvas snaps down it compresses the tube to create a seal. Also used on the outside of visors to create a seal against the bimini when they are zipped in. It can be used anywhere that attaches to help create a barrier seal. Think of it as weatherstripping.

View attachment 72405

-Kevin
Kevin it is a similar profile as the black rubber spray welt a bulbous seal but is clear material either acetate or vinyl pics tomorrow promise
 
I'm not worried about it, I'm just not going to pay it....It is similar to dealership book rates...Just pay what we tell you and be happy...But that just seems to be the nature of things today...Like someone said, they charge it, because they can get it...Perhaps...

If you can't justify the price in time and materials then you're not being honest...If you say your rate is $50/hr or $90/hr, then it needs to mean something.

@techmitch already answered buddy....I said, he told me he could get the materials way less than me....I said ok, use my number of $2k...He already said he was making money on the material end. But he also said the days of doubling materials costs were over, but since he basically double the est price over the calculate time and materials costs, I'm scratching my head at the fuzzy math.
 
It's funny how we all like to judge what other people's services are worth. Its simple, if you
Pay it they will charge it.
 
I spoke with a canvas guy today that was real friendly...He's not in my area, but he spent some time discussing pricing. He told me his price was $90/hour... I said ok, is my estimation of $2k in materials about right....He said that's about what it would cost me, but he gets much better deals...I said ok....I asked if 40 hours was about right and he said he could do it in less. He said he just did a larger boat 65' in 68 hours and it had a lot more work. Since he actually owned a dancer before, he knew it well...He said he could do it in 35 hours...I said ok, but use the $2k material cost and 40hrs labor is $5600...His price to do it was $11k, I asked him to explain and he couldn't....

Obviously he has a math deficiency...............:rolleyes:

The fact he cannot account for over $6k in additional cost over the rates and time quoted is reason to say "adios" and move on.
 

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