THJeff
Active Member
I still have the coffee maker too. It still looks brand new as we're not big coffee drinkers. I don't think the prior owner used it or the microwave much as they both were pristine when we bought the boat.
410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**
- Thread starter mistercomputerman
- Start date
Dani-Lu
Well-Known Member
Did the same thing. Now that coffee maker cabinet is where I keep coffee pods, sweetners, napkins, etc. The best improvements on our boats are ones that create additional functional storage space.
My next new storage space will be the cabinet where the Clarion stuff used to be. All I have there is a little Fusion 400, so all that space behind there is now useable. I have many design ideas in my head, but lets see how long it takes for an idea to become reality.
Boat Guy
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2013
- 2,289
- Boat Info
- 400 DA
- Engines
- CAT 3116s
I removed the coffee maker for pots and pans storage and the TV above the refrigerator for water and boat manuals.... I use the vessel for real live-aboard style use not for day trips and weekends...It is far more functional now for my purposes...My GF uses a French Press for coffee and the TV is now a 40" Flat on the wall to the forward stateroom.
Stee6043
Well-Known Member
I had a great trip from Grand Haven, MI to Chicago, IL this past week. I thought I'd share some #'s on fuel consumption for us rare birds with gas 400's.
Between fill-ups I was running between .69 to .74 statute miles to the gallon, .60-.64 nautical miles to the gallon. I burned 394 gallons total to make the trip (250 nautical miles total +/-) so my overall was on the higher end of that range.
We had a blast. It's a pleasure running this 400 on longer trips. The more miles I put on this boat the more I appreciate the move up from my 340.
Between fill-ups I was running between .69 to .74 statute miles to the gallon, .60-.64 nautical miles to the gallon. I burned 394 gallons total to make the trip (250 nautical miles total +/-) so my overall was on the higher end of that range.
We had a blast. It's a pleasure running this 400 on longer trips. The more miles I put on this boat the more I appreciate the move up from my 340.
Ben1553
New Member
- Aug 23, 2018
- 21
- Boat Info
- 2002 410 Express Cruiser "Vice"
Dual Simrad NSS12 EVO2 w/ Halo 3 Open Array and structure scan
- Engines
- Cummins 6CTA 8.3M 450C
2002 410 Express Cruiser
Can anyone tell me where the amplifier is for the cockpit zone stereo? I'm trying to trouble shoot a no audio issue. All I get is a quiet thud out of the subwoofer about every 5 seconds along with a correlating amperage bounce from 10 to 40 amps at the electrical panel. Cabin audio is working fine. This vessel has the original clarion system.
Thanks
Can anyone tell me where the amplifier is for the cockpit zone stereo? I'm trying to trouble shoot a no audio issue. All I get is a quiet thud out of the subwoofer about every 5 seconds along with a correlating amperage bounce from 10 to 40 amps at the electrical panel. Cabin audio is working fine. This vessel has the original clarion system.
Thanks
Stee6043
Well-Known Member
On the DA's the amps are located behind the forward-most cushion (back rest) on the couch. Hopefully others with the Express will chime in to confirm whether or not yours will be different.
When the amps jump on your gauge I assume your AC compressor is also turning on? Or the water heater? It sounds like you're getting a grounding noise or something unrelated to the audio system.
Once you find the amps the replacement is quite straight forward (if that's the issue)...
midexp
Active Member
- Oct 5, 2016
- 423
- Boat Info
- 1999 40' Sundancer
- Engines
- 454 merc
Wow, I would be disappointed with that gas mileage. How fast were you running and what RPM? I have same boat.
Stee6043
Well-Known Member
I think you’d need to be running a pair of flux capacitors (sans diesels) to beat my numbers by too much. But I’m interested to hear what you’ve got!
RollerCoastr
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2007
- 3,884
- Boat Info
- 1997 400DA
340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
- Engines
- 1999 280BR
Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
I run slow most of the time. Maybe I'm just getting old, but if I'm not rushing to get a good dock or running from bad weather, I pull back and enjoy a longer ride. The boat runs quieter, the AP tracks better, and fuel consumption is better. I also try to run as light as possible - no water and only the fuel I need +safety reserve (half tanks is about the most I carry unless the trip demands more). This wkd I was running even slower than this screen-shot from a year ago, but the econ was the same. I'm running on old hard bottom paint, so I wonder if I'm starting to fight some growth on the hull.
midexp
Active Member
- Oct 5, 2016
- 423
- Boat Info
- 1999 40' Sundancer
- Engines
- 454 merc
I have the same boat and motors. I don't have fuel flow meters so I can't say with absolute accuracy if I'd get better fuel economy. But if I could only get .6mpg, I'd be really disappointed. I did have fuel meters in my 37 with same size motors with carbs and got about .8 mpg running 3300 rpm and 23 mph. That's about what I run at with my 400.
What speed and rpm are you running to get only 0.6 mpg?
midexp
Active Member
- Oct 5, 2016
- 423
- Boat Info
- 1999 40' Sundancer
- Engines
- 454 merc
I run slow most of the time. Maybe I'm just getting old, but if I'm not rushing to get a good dock or running from bad weather, I pull back and enjoy a longer ride. The boat runs quieter, the AP tracks better, and fuel consumption is better. I also try to run as light as possible - no water and only the fuel I need +safety reserve (half tanks is about the most I carry unless the trip demands more). This wkd I was running even slower than this screen-shot from a year ago, but the econ was the same. I'm running on old hard bottom paint, so I wonder if I'm starting to fight some growth on the hull.
What rpm? That's not bad fuel economy.
RollerCoastr
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2007
- 3,884
- Boat Info
- 1997 400DA
340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
- Engines
- 1999 280BR
Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
That’s about 3,000.
.6 is not that bad. I get .6 to .7 at 3550 rpm or 21.5 mph 8.1S twins. However, I have an additional 600lbs of house batteries between the engines, sealift swim step, 400lb dingy on top of fuel and water and gear.
If I worried about an extra $100 per fill up then I'd never enjoy boating.
If I worried about an extra $100 per fill up then I'd never enjoy boating.
Stee6043
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the feedback. You may want to go back and reread the original post though. There's a pretty considerable difference between statute miles per gallon and nautical miles per gallon, as noted.
I'd also suggest that comparing 370's to 400's may not be entirely appropriate. Depending on years you're comparing there could be 5-8,000lbs difference between those boats.
I run 3300-3400 rpm, 21kts +/-. That's 24-25mph.
RollerCoastr
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2007
- 3,884
- Boat Info
- 1997 400DA
340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
- Engines
- 1999 280BR
Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
Stee, meters or a gateway are on your to-do list, right? I'm itching to pull the trigger on an upgrade to gateways. My GFS-10's are solid for about 45 minutes, and then they start acting up. They'll read too high and too low, which I can't make any sense of (nor can Garmin). I'm at the point now where I'll have to fill the tanks just to re-establish a baseline.
Stee6043
Well-Known Member
Yes, sir. Fox Gateways are currently in my 2020 boating plan. I've got the additional NMEA connection patiently waiting at the helm.
I had to stop myself this year on buying more "stuff". The rest of my boating budget is allocated to fuel for this year...as you can see above
- Jun 5, 2016
- 5,556
- Boat Info
- 410 Sundancer
2001
12" Axiom and 9" Axiom+ MFD
- Engines
- Cat 3126 V-Drives
For fuel burn, I estimate based on hours and fuel added. Lately, I have been cruising almost exclusively at cocktail speed (8kts). On my last fill up, I had 46.2 hours on the engine hour meter and I added 188 gallons of diesel.That works out to about 1.97 nm/gal. I think we can call that 2 nm/gal for planning purposes. These are actual numbers.
I have a spread sheet I started filling in. I have used fuel consumption numbers from CAT for my engines, and recorded speed at that RPM. I have not completely filled it in, but a couple of data points (estimates only).
RPM-----Total Burn Gal/Hr---Kts------------Nm/Gal
900----------2.2--------------6.8--------------3.08
1100--------2.8--------------7.5--------------2.48
2200-------16.6-------------16.4--------------0.99
2800-------36.0-------------25.2--------------0.70
I have a spread sheet I started filling in. I have used fuel consumption numbers from CAT for my engines, and recorded speed at that RPM. I have not completely filled it in, but a couple of data points (estimates only).
RPM-----Total Burn Gal/Hr---Kts------------Nm/Gal
900----------2.2--------------6.8--------------3.08
1100--------2.8--------------7.5--------------2.48
2200-------16.6-------------16.4--------------0.99
2800-------36.0-------------25.2--------------0.70
Last edited:
JVM225
Well-Known Member
Open those babies up.......
My wife likes cocktail speed. I don’t because everyone gets to enjoy cocktails while I play chauffeur and get eaten alive by green flys.
If I’m not in a no wake zone I’m at 2400 RPM and usually trying to get back to the dock so I can have some cocktails too.
yobub
Well-Known Member
These posts got me thinking about my fuel economy, and I went back and read some of the previous posts on this subject. Many years ago @fwebster posted that the 350hp Cat 3116's should burn 22.6 GPH @ 2400 RPMs. http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/cat-3116-3126-fuel-burn-in-400-380.45431/
I found a document that Cat had provided to me when I bought my boat last year, which has a series of performance curves (that I don't really understand) but I thought you all might find useful. (attached). In the meantime I'll assume Frank is correct.
So it got me to thinking about how much it costs to run the boat. On my last long run (2 hrs) reasonable flat water, I was running at about 25.5 statute MPH. Certainly some variation, but let's use that number.
Burning 22.6 gallons per hour, at 25.5 statute miles per hour, that equates to 1.13 statute miles per gallon. If I pay $3.25 a gallon for diesel (on my last run it was $2.65 - thanks Milwaukee!) then I am running at a cost of about $74 per hour. If I run 50 hours a year, that's $3,672 per year in fuel. Obviously the price of fuel will vary significantly, so the cost per hour (and cost per year) does as well.
This weekend I'll try to get some speeds at slower RPMs for comparison on cost.
Last edited:
