410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

yobub said:
Didnt know that was a thing. I will have to look into that.
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Best fiscal advice you're ever going to get on this forum - be careful of the suggestions you get from RollerCoastr. That guy is wicked hard on the pocket book.

Wait till he tells you how he can adjust his trim tabs from his new Garmin watch...
 
Well hold on now... I’ll admit this is a conspiracy, but it’s a multi-level conspiracy: OllieC is responsible for the whole watch thing, which makes me a victim too! :D
 
Stee6043 said:
Best fiscal advice you're ever going to get on this forum - be careful of the suggestions you get from RollerCoastr. That guy is wicked hard on the pocket book.

Wait till he tells you how he can adjust his trim tabs from his new Garmin watch...
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Says the guy who almost got me to spend a hundred bucks for new sea ray emblems...
 
Stee6043 said:
wicked hard on the pocket book.
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You know what you got me thinking now. I Platinum sponsored this site because it has saved me well over the $100, but realistically it has probably cost me thousands seeing everyone else's upgrades. o_O:D
 
BGIII said:
Has anybody ever installed a Hurley H3O on a 400 or 410?
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I looked into it and it wouldn’t work because of the center swim platform ladder. I went with an original Hurley davit on my 1997 400 DA.
 
JVM225 said:
Has anyone added Bennett’s 3” Drop Fins to the stock 24 x 12 tabs on their 410’s?
If so, what were the results?
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Well, still considering this modification. I’ve got the Drop Fins and I’m getting the boat ready for launch but can’t decide if I want to try these or not. While I’ve found many positive stories about them, I’ve also seen some things indicating that they can possibly cause additional drag.
Bennett recommended that I try to find someone with a 410 that has them installed and see what their experience has been. They told me that there is a possibility that on some hulls they can act as rudders.
The issue is that the transom on the 410 is not at a 90 degree angle to the sides of the boat.
For some reason, the Sea Ray engineers put tabs on the boat that have a small drop fin (an inch or so) on the outside edge and a small up fin on the inboard side of the tabs.
While I understand that lots have had great experience with them, I think that since all hulls are slightly different that it might be best to compare real experience with someone with the exact same 410 hull.
Has anyone tried the drop fins on their 410?
 
JVM225 said:
Well, still considering this modification. I’ve got the Drop Fins and I’m getting the boat ready for launch but can’t decide if I want to try these or not. While I’ve found many positive stories about them, I’ve also seen some things indicating that they can possibly cause additional drag.
Bennett recommended that I try to find someone with a 410 that has them installed and see what their experience has been. They told me that there is a possibility that on some hulls they can act as rudders.
The issue is that the transom on the 410 is not at a 90 degree angle to the sides of the boat.
For some reason, the Sea Ray engineers put tabs on the boat that have a small drop fin (an inch or so) on the outside edge and a small up fin on the inboard side of the tabs.
While I understand that lots have had great experience with them, I think that since all hulls are slightly different that it might be best to compare real experience with someone with the exact same 410 hull.
Has anyone tried the drop fins on their 410?
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Why are you looking to do this modification? Our model wants to run bow high and even though it can be a pain, it’s more efficient that way.
 
HUMPH said:
Why are you looking to do this modification? Our model wants to run bow high and even though it can be a pain, it’s more efficient that way.
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Perhaps a gasser-only observation but my 400 runs anything but bow-high. Even at zero tab she's running more bow down than my 340 ever did. It's a pleasure. Full tab and she's plowing through chop with malice.

BOOM - Did I just find the ONLY benefit to a gas powered 400??????? Hah...seems unlikely. But a guy can try.
 
Stee - I think you just found a major plus for gassers. You should go update the thousands of gas/diesel debates with this tidbit :). Maybe John (JVM) will trade boats :).

John, do you run with full gas tanks or 1/2? When taking long trips, there is a point where I gain a knot. Probably around 1/2 tank. That seems to be her sweet spot, fuel weight wise.

Have you been on other 410’s to see if your running angle is similar, which means you may be chasing a ghost. I for one don’t need any more OCD ghosts to chase on my boat!? Also, I installed a new seat base that gained me approx 2 inches and it is night and day. Once on plane, I have great visibility seated and I am only 5’6” tall. My wife seeing how happy I am with an additional 2 inches is asking if this can be done in other areas. I don’t get her humor!
 
Dani-Lu said:
Stee - I think you just found a major plus for gassers. You should go update the thousands of gas/diesel debates with this tidbit :). Maybe John (JVM) will trade boats :).
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In all seriousness I would not expect the weight of the engines to affect the ride so substantially. Are there other differences in the pockets or hull design on a diesel that would change behaviour? Just curious.
 
It does. The 410DA diesel is a great boat, but a diesel powered v-drive 40 footer with prop pockets simply isn’t a well-balanced boat, and that shows in her running attitude.

The payback of running bow high is a mid stateroom and second head. Worth it for some, not for others.

I loved driving my neighbor’s diesel 410. It was fun around the marina, but each time I brought her on-plane, I had a WTF moment as I had to stand up to see over the bow.
 
Btw, before I ruffle too many diesel owning feathers, the gassers have issues in the opposite respect. Being light in the stern is IMO one of the biggest issues with my gas 400. She’ll ventilate the props in a beam sea. I’d take running bow high any day over my props sucking air.
 
RollerCoastr said:
Btw, before I ruffle too many diesel owning feathers, the gassers have issues in the opposite respect. Being light in the stern is IMO one of the biggest issues with my gas 400. She’ll ventilate the props in a beam sea. I’d take running bow high any day over my props sucking air.
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I've even experienced the ventilation in head seas once you start pushing into 3' chop if you're above 18-20kts. I've found my sweet spot to be at 17kts, full tab, when getting into "the wife isn't having fun anymore" type conditions. Drives like a snow plow at that rate...
 
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HUMPH said:
Why are you looking to do this modification? Our model wants to run bow high and even though it can be a pain, it’s more efficient that way.
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Hi Ken,
Not looking to get the bow down as much as I’d like to get the stern out of the water a bit more. I can’t help but think that dragging that a$$ through the water is impacting efficiency. I’m not an engineer of any kind but I feel like the less boat that’s in the water at cruising RPM the more efficient the boat will be.
Bennett recommends an inch of width on each tab for every foot of boat. The factory tabs are only 24” wide. They say that adding the 3” drop fins is like adding 6” of width to the tabs.
While I could fit a slightly wider tab, it would only be maybe another 6” wide at most because of the shape of the transom and that would involve relocating the pistons.
I’ve gotten some great feedback about the dropfins but not from anyone with a 410. The tabs on the 410 are not at a 90 degree angle to the sides/of the boat, and are on a deeper angle. For some reason, the Sea Ray engineers put a smaller drop fin on the outboard sides of them and an equal upfin on the inboard sides of the tabs. I’m thinking there must be a reason for that.
Bennett did caution me that there is a possibility that because of the angle of the transom/tabs, the drop fins could act as rudders or have a negative impact. They recommended talking to someone with the exact same boat to see what their experience was with them before installing them.
 
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Dani-Lu said:
Stee - I think you just found a major plus for gassers. You should go update the thousands of gas/diesel debates with this tidbit :). Maybe John (JVM) will trade boats :).

John, do you run with full gas tanks or 1/2? When taking long trips, there is a point where I gain a knot. Probably around 1/2 tank. That seems to be her sweet spot, fuel weight wise.

Have you been on other 410’s to see if your running angle is similar, which means you may be chasing a ghost. I for one don’t need any more OCD ghosts to chase on my boat!? Also, I installed a new seat base that gained me approx 2 inches and it is night and day. Once on plane, I have great visibility seated and I am only 5’6” tall. My wife seeing how happy I am with an additional 2 inches is asking if this can be done in other areas. I don’t get her humor!
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Hi Jeff,
It was 39 with freezing rain here today. Do you miss it yet?
I typically fill my tanks as soon as I see that I’m down to less than half a tank so they are usually pretty full. I keep my water tank full to because I use that instead of the dockside water connection.
I was leaning towards a new seat base but went the cheapskate way instead. On long trips I use the freebie throwable device as a cushion to raise my butt a couple of inches in the helm seat. Crude, but it works. The other benefit is that the Helm seat can still be at the exact height as the companion seat. When enjoying a cocktail at the dock I lift the bolster, turn the helm seat 90 degrees to port, lower the bolster and I have the most comfortable lounger on the boat. It’s nice and shaded too. I’ve enjoyed several catnaps in it.
The running angle is typical of the diesel 410’s. I’m looking for an improvement. I suspect that SeaRay went with the best overall tab for gas and much heavier in the a$$ diesel boats.
The prop guy recommended Acme Props. I spoke to Acme and they recommended their 3 blade props. I can’t wrap my head around that but they say they work well on the Sundancers. I didn’t want to take a $5000.00 gamble on 3 blade props though without talking to someone with a diesel 410 who tried them and getting real world feedback. I’m probably going to call Acme back next winter to see if they can connect me to someone with a 410 who is running their props.
I can say that the last time I listened to this prop guy with my old boat I picked up an incredible hole shot, faster cruising speed at the same RPM’s and more fuel efficiency. But that was a twin I/O boat and the props weren’t as big as an investment.
 
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Hey John, definitely enjoying the weather down here. We were on boat all day today with friends visiting from Calif, and doing the same with some local family members tomorrow.

Your comments on seat height are spot on. Thats why I made sure when the seat is lowered, it is perfectly level with the captain seat. Like you, that is my shaded catnap position. But I paid a grand for the extra height. I like your solution more. Now that I am in clear water, I could have used that grand for underwater lights. :).

Also, I know it does not make sense, but I find she runs better with 1/2 water tank. I don’t find the xtra water weight beinging the bow down. But, I am happy with her running attitude.
 
Posted this in the 400EC thread, but thought I would ask the larger group of EC owners:

Does anyone have an oil change pump fixed mounted in their boat (Reverso or Groco)? I am adding one during my repower and cannot visualize the best place to mount it, so I wanted to see what someone has, factory or DIY. Any pictures of the set up would also be appreciated. Thanks.
 
h_gerry said:
Posted this in the 400EC thread, but thought I would ask the larger group of EC owners:

Does anyone have an oil change pump fixed mounted in their boat (Reverso or Groco)? I am adding one during my repower and cannot visualize the best place to mount it, so I wanted to see what someone has, factory or DIY. Any pictures of the set up would also be appreciated. Thanks.
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I have a 370EC with a Reverso. It's mounted on the vertical stringer by the starboard motor. I don't have a pic of it at the moment, but could get one next time I'm at the boat. I just did my annual oil change last night, wish I'd seen this post before then, I could have gotten all kinds of pics!
 
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