420 DA Thread

hynespa said:
OPERATING IN SALT WATER QUESTION -

My 420 Sundancer is located in the Pacific Ocean (salt water). The Mercury engine manual states at "each day end":
  • If operating in salt, brackish or polluted waters, flush the cooling system after each use.
The manual (Section 5 / Page 71) goes on to specify that the following 14 steps are to be used at the end of each day that the boat is used in salt water:
  1. Close the seacock, if equipped, then disconnect the seawater inlet hose to prevent water from siphoning into the engine or boat.
  2. If not equipped with a seacock, disconnect the seawater inlet hose from the seawater pump, and immediately plug the hose to prevent water from siphoning into the engine or boat.
  3. Using a suitable adapter, connect the flushing hose from the water source to the water inlet of the seawater pump.
  4. Completely open the water source to provide maximum water supply.
  5. Place the remote control in the neutral idle speed position.
  6. Immediately start the engine.
  7. Depress the throttle‐only button and slowly advance the throttle until the engine reaches 1300 RPM (± 100 RPM).
  8. Observe the water temperature gauge to ensure that the engine is operating in the normal range.
  9. Operate the engine with the transmission in neutral for a minimum of 10 minutes.
  10. For power packages operated in salty, brackish, mineral‐laden, or polluted water: Continue to operate the engine until the discharge water is clear.
  11. Slowly return the throttle to idle speed position.
  12. Stop the engine.
  13. Immediately shut off the supply water and remove the flushing attachment.
  14. Tag the ignition switch with an appropriate tag requiring the seacock to be opened or the seawater inlet hose to be reconnected prior to operating the engine.
My reaction upon reading this was SERIOUSLY - YOU HAVE TO BE F****** KIDDING ME?!

Has anybody on this forum who operates in Salt Water ever tried to do this (let alone do this every time they operate the boat in salt water). If so - how long does these 14 steps take to complete (twice - once for each engine!) and what tools / equipment do you need each and every time?

From an engineering standpoint - it would seem that if they ever expected their advice to be taken seriously they should have installed a switch at the cockpit that operates a valve that moves the water intakes from the seacock to the fresh water tank. Unless somebody has a full time crew - I can't see anybody using the boat recreationally honestly doing this.

I see an opportunity for an entrepreneur with an engineering background to create a mechanism that does steps 1-4 with a push of a button ....
Click to expand...
My boat is dry stored (32’ Sea Ray) the marina flushes the engines each time they put it away, but they don’t have to flip the sea cocks since it is out of the water. But they do need to raise the hatch, attach the adaptor to the hose, plug it in, quickly start the engines, run for 10 minutes, then repeat for other side. They only do one engine at a time since if they did 2, they lose too much water pressure. (Or so they claim). When I use the boat for weeklong cruises, I do not flush the engines every day, just at the end. Not saying that is right. But you are correct, should just be an easy to get to sea cock, and a connection outside the boat for a standard hose, and voila, you can flush the engines. Even better, automatic with the flip of a switch pull from fresh water, but i think engines are 3-5 gallons/minute(?), if so, in 4 minutes you could empty out a full 40 gallon fresh water tank if both engines were on...
 
Buyajet said:
View attachment 64025 View attachment 64026 View attachment 64027 Jaybeaux- used your selection in cockpit lighting. Very high quality so thanks. Then I added a few more outside.
Click to expand...

Hey again,

I hate to bug you about his little detail but I am drowning in decision making. So... I picked up the same monitor as I love your placement - i have the mount already so thats all good. My issue is finding the OTA/Coax to HDMI - rca convertor box that will work to run my OTA signal to the monitor and then audio out to the salon stereo for audio as the monitor does not have sound either?
The ones I have found are "convertor" boxes and just not sure thats right. I know it will have to have a "tuner" in it to able to switch channels from my Glomex - as a normal TV would.
So.. you have been so kind to layout how you ran the hdmi cabling but i for some reason are stumped on this one.
Thanks for the help.
Chris


upload_2019-3-1_15-21-16.png
 
Todd320 said:
My boat is dry stored (32’ Sea Ray) the marina flushes the engines each time they put it away, but they don’t have to flip the sea cocks since it is out of the water. But they do need to raise the hatch, attach the adaptor to the hose, plug it in, quickly start the engines, run for 10 minutes, then repeat for other side. They only do one engine at a time since if they did 2, they lose too much water pressure. (Or so they claim). When I use the boat for weeklong cruises, I do not flush the engines every day, just at the end. Not saying that is right. But you are correct, should just be an easy to get to sea cock, and a connection outside the boat for a standard hose, and voila, you can flush the engines. Even better, automatic with the flip of a switch pull from fresh water, but i think engines are 3-5 gallons/minute(?), if so, in 4 minutes you could empty out a full 40 gallon fresh water tank if both engines were on...
Click to expand...

@Todd320 - wow...you really have a full service marina! I wish our YC would provide those services. Unfortunately my boat is always in the water - so I also regularly have to have a diver come as well to clean the bottom.

Still interested in hearing whether anybody has tried these steps themselves...
 
kysearay said:
Hey again,

I hate to bug you about his little detail but I am drowning in decision making. So... I picked up the same monitor as I love your placement - i have the mount already so thats all good. My issue is finding the OTA/Coax to HDMI - rca convertor box that will work to run my OTA signal to the monitor and then audio out to the salon stereo for audio as the monitor does not have sound either?
The ones I have found are "convertor" boxes and just not sure thats right. I know it will have to have a "tuner" in it to able to switch channels from my Glomex - as a normal TV would.
So.. you have been so kind to layout how you ran the hdmi cabling but i for some reason are stumped on this one.
Thanks for the help.
Chris


View attachment 65778
Click to expand...
No bother. I have been away and just now got this. This is what we did:
AFT DECK TV

Test fit TV mount in location behind helm chair

Removed cup holder. Moved wires to avoid
cutting. Measured area for TV mount installation. Cut area
and mounted TV mount. TV mount is temporarily mounted.
Test fit TV and drilled mounting holes at the max height on
TV mount. TV mount bracket not high enough to clear seat
back top. Removed tools and cleaned worked areas. Will
need to extend TV mount bracket as originally thought.

Picked up TV mount and installed it on vessel.
Installed TV onto TV mount and looked at install. Adjusted
TV mount and oriented it to sit properly on mount.

Cut hole for cable pass through and was able to
cover up existing hole that was left over from cup holder.
Ran wiring from TV to access hole. Installed split loom to
cover and protect cables.
Removed panels to gain access to wire runs. Ran
HDMI and power cable from Salon/Galley to access hole
behind Helm chair. Power is being fed from outlet in
Salon/Galley that has the HDMI jack installed. Connected
HDMI to existing HDMI splitter and disconnected the HDMI
wall jack. Mounted and connected Vimar outlet and box
for power and HDMI connection under access hole behind
Helm chair.
Installed HDMI splitter/audio extractor. Ran
audio cable from Directv area overhead to fusion radio.
Installed outlet strip in overhead to accommodate HDMI
splitters. Tested and functioning properly. HDMI outlet is
connected to Aux 2 on fusion. Aft deck tv audio is
connected to Aux 1 on fusion.

6 Outlet Strip
RCA Stereo Cable/Cord (20 ft/feet Long, Dual 2 x RCA Male
to 2 x RCA Male Audio Cable, Digital & Analogue,
Double-Shielded, PRO Series)
RCA STEREO CABLE 20FT
14G 3 COND WIRE 14 AWG 3 CONDUCTOR TINNED WIRE, BLK-WHT-GRN
HDMI cables
4kx2k HDMI audio extractor/2 way HDMI splitter.
My tuner is from the DTV system or if not, then I am duplicating the main salon Smart TV signal to this monitor in the cockpit (Glomex/Blue Ray, etc.)
 
Buyajet said:
No bother. I have been away and just now got this. This is what we did:
AFT DECK TV

Test fit TV mount in location behind helm chair

Removed cup holder. Moved wires to avoid
cutting. Measured area for TV mount installation. Cut area
and mounted TV mount. TV mount is temporarily mounted.
Test fit TV and drilled mounting holes at the max height on
TV mount. TV mount bracket not high enough to clear seat
back top. Removed tools and cleaned worked areas. Will
need to extend TV mount bracket as originally thought.

Picked up TV mount and installed it on vessel.
Installed TV onto TV mount and looked at install. Adjusted
TV mount and oriented it to sit properly on mount.

Cut hole for cable pass through and was able to
cover up existing hole that was left over from cup holder.
Ran wiring from TV to access hole. Installed split loom to
cover and protect cables.
Removed panels to gain access to wire runs. Ran
HDMI and power cable from Salon/Galley to access hole
behind Helm chair. Power is being fed from outlet in
Salon/Galley that has the HDMI jack installed. Connected
HDMI to existing HDMI splitter and disconnected the HDMI
wall jack. Mounted and connected Vimar outlet and box
for power and HDMI connection under access hole behind
Helm chair.
Installed HDMI splitter/audio extractor. Ran
audio cable from Directv area overhead to fusion radio.
Installed outlet strip in overhead to accommodate HDMI
splitters. Tested and functioning properly. HDMI outlet is
connected to Aux 2 on fusion. Aft deck tv audio is
connected to Aux 1 on fusion.

6 Outlet Strip
RCA Stereo Cable/Cord (20 ft/feet Long, Dual 2 x RCA Male
to 2 x RCA Male Audio Cable, Digital & Analogue,
Double-Shielded, PRO Series)
RCA STEREO CABLE 20FT
14G 3 COND WIRE 14 AWG 3 CONDUCTOR TINNED WIRE, BLK-WHT-GRN
HDMI cables
4kx2k HDMI audio extractor/2 way HDMI splitter.
My tuner is from the DTV system or if not, then I am duplicating the main salon Smart TV signal to this monitor in the cockpit (Glomex/Blue Ray, etc.)
Click to expand...
And we set the DTV remote to RF for all including the cockpit TV so I have full control on all from any remote used. Hope this helps.
 
hynespa said:
OPERATING IN SALT WATER QUESTION -

My 420 Sundancer is located in the Pacific Ocean (salt water). The Mercury engine manual states at "each day end":
  • If operating in salt, brackish or polluted waters, flush the cooling system after each use.
The manual (Section 5 / Page 71) goes on to specify that the following 14 steps are to be used at the end of each day that the boat is used in salt water:
  1. Close the seacock, if equipped, then disconnect the seawater inlet hose to prevent water from siphoning into the engine or boat.
  2. If not equipped with a seacock, disconnect the seawater inlet hose from the seawater pump, and immediately plug the hose to prevent water from siphoning into the engine or boat.
  3. Using a suitable adapter, connect the flushing hose from the water source to the water inlet of the seawater pump.
  4. Completely open the water source to provide maximum water supply.
  5. Place the remote control in the neutral idle speed position.
  6. Immediately start the engine.
  7. Depress the throttle‐only button and slowly advance the throttle until the engine reaches 1300 RPM (± 100 RPM).
  8. Observe the water temperature gauge to ensure that the engine is operating in the normal range.
  9. Operate the engine with the transmission in neutral for a minimum of 10 minutes.
  10. For power packages operated in salty, brackish, mineral‐laden, or polluted water: Continue to operate the engine until the discharge water is clear.
  11. Slowly return the throttle to idle speed position.
  12. Stop the engine.
  13. Immediately shut off the supply water and remove the flushing attachment.
  14. Tag the ignition switch with an appropriate tag requiring the seacock to be opened or the seawater inlet hose to be reconnected prior to operating the engine.
My reaction upon reading this was SERIOUSLY - YOU HAVE TO BE F****** KIDDING ME?!

Has anybody on this forum who operates in Salt Water ever tried to do this (let alone do this every time they operate the boat in salt water). If so - how long does these 14 steps take to complete (twice - once for each engine!) and what tools / equipment do you need each and every time?

From an engineering standpoint - it would seem that if they ever expected their advice to be taken seriously they should have installed a switch at the cockpit that operates a valve that moves the water intakes from the seacock to the fresh water tank. Unless somebody has a full time crew - I can't see anybody using the boat recreationally honestly doing this.

I see an opportunity for an entrepreneur with an engineering background to create a mechanism that does steps 1-4 with a push of a button ....
Click to expand...

Since my post last week, I did some research online for a better solution. I came across the Perko Complete FlushPro kit for sale on Amazon for $143.27. One reviewer of the product, made a very detailed review of this setup. To save everybody the trouble of going over to Amazon I am reposting his review, diagram and photos here:

=== Michael Edick February 27, 2012 review of Perko FlushPro kit ===

FlushPro2.jpg I purchased two of these 1-1/4" Perko adapters for my twin 6.2L Merc inboards and one 1" Perko (reduced to 3/4") for my genny.
FlushProDiagram.jpg Plumbed all three into one 5/8" feed, using a single Perko water-inlet (water-hose) fitting on the aft part of my stern's gunnel plus a couple 5/8" tees and around 30' of 5/8" supply hose. Found the 5/8"-supply was enough to feed either engine at idle, but not both at the same time. Genny actually sucked twice the flow of the big engines at idle, and the 1" Perko gasped for more water than I could give it... but it worked out just fine.

I've used these Perkos in three different situations now, and they performed exactly as I hoped they would:
1) in dry-dock, I was able to feed both engines and genny water from a garden hose, until they were warm-enough to change the oil (probably 3-hours)
2) at my dock, I was able to flush-out the brackish/salt water from my pumps and manifolds, without having to close any seacocks (something very difficult to reach on my boat)
3) FlushPro5.jpg I used a 3/4HP submersible pump to suck antifreeze from a 5-gallon pail, with the discharge going into my Perko (garden hose) flush-fitting. I winterized both engines and my genny (plus their mufflers) in about 1-minute each, consuming a total of 6gal of antifreeze

1-1/4" Perko valve: #0456DP7
1-1/4" Perko valve kit (has 0499000CHR water-inlet plate and fittings): #0457DP7
1" Perko valve: #0456DP6

I could NOT be more happy with the performance of these Perkos, though a couple buddies tried to put them down because they're all-plastic. Personally, I think the plastic (if strong enough) probably has longer/smoother operation than metal parts would have (especially in salt), but makes one a little nervous without an ABYC-certification stamp... if these crack/fail, the boat is headed straight to the bottom. I tried to get more information from Perko 3-times, and they never returned my calls/emails.
FlushPro1.jpg
FlushPro4.jpg
FlushPro3.jpg
FlushPro6.jpg


=== end of copied content ===

Does anybody else have experience with the Perko FlushPro? I am thinking in my situation:
  • boat always in water
  • boat always used in salt water
  • Yacht Club does not provide flush out service
  • I have been through expensive exhaust riser and manifold replacements due to salt water corrosion
This might be a good option to flush my engines with just hooking up the hose (which has great pressure) after boating. Thoughts?

Thanks to Michael Edick for the great photos and diagram from his Amazon post.
 
Buyajet said:
And we set the DTV remote to RF for all including the cockpit TV so I have full control on all from any remote used. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much, do you remember the splitter that you used?
Thank you for the detailed list. I really appreciate it.
c
 
Does anybody have the problem of dash panel switch names (backlit in blue) BARELY visible at night? If so, what is the fix? BTW the brightness is turned up fully.....
 
brewster16 said:
Does anybody have the problem of dash panel switch names (backlit in blue) BARELY visible at night? If so, what is the fix? BTW the brightness is turned up fully.....
Click to expand...


Last time I had my switch panel out I noticed the light strip on the back side was "taped" on from the factory and it had lost some of its stickiness. It could be as simple as taking out all the screws holding the switch panel and re-taping the strip of lights under there......
 
brewster16 said:
Does anybody have the problem of dash panel switch names (backlit in blue) BARELY visible at night? If so, what is the fix? BTW the brightness is turned up fully.....
Click to expand...
I pulled the panel to access and found the light strip SR installed to be coming off the panel. It is glued in and after 13 years, it was in bad shape and just looked like crap. Bought an LED (white) strip, hooked into same power and voila-I can make it outshine the sun if needed and the dimmer does a great job if you want them soft. I think the whole deal was under $30. Easy fix.
 
Buyajet said:
I pulled the panel to access and found the light strip SR installed to be coming off the panel. It is glued in and after 13 years, it was in bad shape and just looked like crap. Bought an LED (white) strip, hooked into same power and voila-I can make it outshine the sun if needed and the dimmer does a great job if you want them soft. I think the whole deal was under $30. Easy fix.
Click to expand...

Interesting.....I cannot wait to get into that dash panel and get that fixed once and for all!
 
Buyajet said:
I pulled the panel to access and found the light strip SR installed to be coming off the panel. It is glued in and after 13 years, it was in bad shape and just looked like crap. Bought an LED (white) strip, hooked into same power and voila-I can make it outshine the sun if needed and the dimmer does a great job if you want them soft. I think the whole deal was under $30. Easy fix.
Click to expand...

Do you recall the item and P/N for that LED Strip?
 
Blueone said:
I replaced all my rope lighting under the master bed with something similar... worked great
Click to expand...
It works! I did the bed, under floor cabinets, the aft salon "bed" lower, the hull side vents. When I'm done it will look like a floating French whorehouse. Looking for a mirror ball for the salon (hah!)
 
Hi All My new to me 2007 44 Sundancer has the KVH M3 Sat system installed. Is there any way to get this old system to work on the newer KVH operating system.I also have a Glomex antenna did Searay install a switch any where on the boat to switch between the two antennas.Thanks
 
Stream Netflix or Apple TV off of your phone. Simpler, easier, and cheaper, in my view.
 
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