Sadness

Phasma

Phasma2128
Sep 17, 2016
689
West Michigan
Boat Info
2003 360 Sundancer
Engines
Mercruiser 8.1s Horizon
browsing the list of exhibitors for the Miami Boat Show.... Not seeing any large Sea Ray boats listed makes me sad. I understand they discontinued all production of large boats but it just doesn’t seem right...sigh:(
 
It really is. Boat shows aren’t the same. The brand isn’t the same.
 
I am hoping that Brunswick is shopping the IP and the molds around and that some Private Equity shop is pulling together some capital to buy it and restart the yacht class again. Properly run, there has got to be a away to make money in the business. The US market is one of the most wealthy in the world, and very "buy American" loyal.
 
I am hoping that Brunswick is shopping the IP and the molds around and that some Private Equity shop is pulling together some capital to buy it and restart the yacht class again. Properly run, there has got to be a away to make money in the business. The US market is one of the most wealthy in the world, and very "buy American" loyal.



I'm not sure Private Equity would change the basic problem. As I have mentioned before....the primary failure (IMHO) which occurred over time was shifting the Sales channel to MarineMax. What started out as a "great Brunswick idea" put SR on a path to losing the big boat market.

If you let other people represent your products in a non-exclusive environment you run the risk of your "loyal" end customers being sold other products. In this case, MarineMax cut deals with Azimut, Aviara, Galeon and Ocean Alexander to represent their products as well. Ask yourself: "Who owns the customer relationship in this scenario?"

Further.....SR was stuck with intercompany costs that they have no control over (Mercruiser) and big boat technology that failed (IPS). The result was more expensive production costs, warranty issues with Mercruiser, playing catch up in design and an owner Brunswick that made very poor management decisions.

From a Private Equity perspective....the supply issues are easier to fix than the Sales channel. I'm not sure that the Sales/Service channel can be fixed in today's market.

MarineMax has done a great job of building their business.
 
We’re in Miami now went to the show yesterday and didn’t even go to The Sea Ray display. Looks like they only sell lake boats now it’s depressing.
Many other brands have a larger range and will pass Sea Ray if they haven’t done it yet. We where wondering how this will effect the resale value of our boats in the near future.
 
We’re in Miami now went to the show yesterday and didn’t even go to The Sea Ray display. Looks like they only sell lake boats now it’s depressing.
Many other brands have a larger range and will pass Sea Ray if they haven’t done it yet. We where wondering how this will effect the resale value of our boats in the near future.
I believe it will make them more desirable. Probably triple in value :)
 
Ah geez, thanks for the heads up, was getting ready to fly out tonight and check the show out over the weekend.
 
Once upon a time....they were the Miami Boat show. Full tilt parties at Eden Roc, VIP treatment and limos. I used to have a blast at the show with the Sea Ray team. :(

In regards to resale.....Sea Ray has a history of making great boats. That said.....I believe most segments will hold their value and some are problematic. The problem on the bigger boats is trade-in where the owner is upgrading and changing brands. Companies like Marine Max make more money pushing new boats and don't want to have old boat inventory that takes a long time to move. That will put a lot of downward price pressure on the bigger used Sea Ray models in their inventory. That in turn drives the values in the private sale market. I'm not sure how many boats SR made with IPS drives but those will probably suffer the most.

It won't happen tomorrow because there will always be boaters who understand Sea Ray quality. It just will become a much smaller population over time. :(

You will also see it on CSR. Today's members generally have boats in sizes SR no longer makes.
 
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Once upon a time....they were the Miami Boat show. Full tilt parties at Eden Roc, VIP treatment and limos. I used to have a blast at the show with the Sea Ray team. :(



In regards to resale.....Sea Ray has a history of making great boats. That said.....I believe most segments will hold their value and some are problematic. The problem on the bigger boats is trade-in where the owner is upgrading and changing brands. Companies like Marine Max make more money pushing new boats and don't want to have old boat inventory that takes a long time to move. That will put a lot of downward price pressure on the bigger used Sea Ray models in their inventory. That in turn drives the values in the private sale market. I'm not sure how many boats SR made with IPS drives but those will probably suffer the most.

It won't happen tomorrow because there will always be boaters who understand Sea Ray quality. It just will become a much smaller population over time. :(

I think you are right on. I personally would never buy a zeus boat. Worst thing SR ever did besides MM.
 
IMO Sea Ray will still sell well in smaller markets. My 280 sold in less than a month. I had to go all the way to Atlanta to find a 100% covered slip fresh water 320 that I wanted to shell out my hard earned money on. Plus I had to spend $3500.00 to get it here. If you look the price of used Sea Ray cruisers has actually gone up.
 
We’re in Miami now went to the show yesterday and didn’t even go to The Sea Ray display. Looks like they only sell lake boats now it’s depressing.
Many other brands have a larger range and will pass Sea Ray if they haven’t done it yet. We where wondering how this will effect the resale value of our boats in the near future.

Not sure what a "lake boat" is?
 
And in a few years there will be a discussion regarding building brand loyalty and a greenhorn mid level exec will run some spreadsheets and try selling the great new idea of breaking into the 40-60 marketplace. The new board will think it's a great idea and the greenhorn will get a big promo and a c-level appointment.

Spin-rinse-repeat, it big businesses at their best.

-Kevin
 
browsing the list of exhibitors for the Miami Boat Show.... Not seeing any large Sea Ray boats listed makes me sad. I understand they discontinued all production of large boats but it just doesn’t seem right...sigh:(
According to an article I’ve seen it doesn’t appear Brunswick wants SR to build big boats anymore because they’re low volume and too complex. Yeah, why bother with complicated things like retaining your highly dedicated base who want to go bigger. https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manu...ajIGnjOEe3AL-rrO7IGOqHbo1vRVfg&_hsmi=69654230
 
On the other hand...if you can make as much money last year as you did in 2006 on double the sales, why not? Thoughts?


I don't have a problem with business decisions made with the shareholders in mind. I do have a problem with the decisions that set the stage for the crisis Brunswick found themselves in. In my mind Brunswick isn't much different than AMF another lifestyle company that bought Harley Davidson at one point and almost killed Harley Davidson with terrible management and decision making.

I don't believe Brunswick's management team is capable of building anything other than mass produced items: Engines, drives and boats that require no customization and that can be reliably mass produced on shore and off shore. Nothing is wrong with that strategy unless you bought a Sea Ray model that Brunswick has basically abandoned. Then you have a "classic" and no Sea Ray upgrade path. For those that bought into the "Sea Ray Family" marketing.....it sucks.

While many of us don't like this narrative......Brunswick doesn't care. In their mind the complaints will go away when the larger Sea Ray boat owners sell their boats and adopt another brand......problem solved.

It is the end of a great era.

In regards to your other question on profits.....

Brunswick makes most of its money on Mercury Marine $2.7B (2017 Revenue) followed by the boat business which did $1B and the Fitness business which added another $1B to the numbers. By far Mercury Marine dominates the board room, acquisitions and investments. Of the 3 segments, the boat business has done the worst year over year. Mercury Marine has knocked the ball out of the park which is why they as a whole are doing better. While it appears to be a US brand....the exact same outboards are mass produced in Japan and China under the Mercury name.

So the stage was set some time ago that building larger Sea Rays was "not strategic".
 
On the other hand...if you can make as much money last year as you did in 2006 on double the sales, why not? Thoughts?
Bizness is bizness. I would imagine that SeaRay wasn't concerned about keeping any particular segment of the industry happy - they only cared about making the most profit for their shareholders.

I read somewhere that about 50% of the boats in the US are outboard powered and less than 16 feet. I also remember reading that the "average" new boat sold is a 19 or so foot I/O bowrider. So, with SeaRay's reintroduction of outboard powered SPX bowriders, maybe they are addressing those statistics.

My local dealer has always had the biggest boat on display at our local boat show. SeaRays have been quite predominant on local waters as long as I can remember. I checked their new inventory online recently and over half of the 2019s were 190 SPXs.

Also, in my area there are only 1 each dealer for Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, etc. But there is a Ford, Chevy or Chrysler dealer in every little community selling SUVs. Its where the money is, strictly due to volume. My last employer had 7 divisions making a diverse mix of products. Eventually they sold 6 of them, just to expand the core business that made the most $.

Just MY thoughts...
 
And in a few years there will be a discussion regarding building brand loyalty and a greenhorn mid level exec will run some spreadsheets and try selling the great new idea of breaking into the 40-60 marketplace. The new board will think it's a great idea and the greenhorn will get a big promo and a c-level appointment.

Spin-rinse-repeat, it big businesses at their best.

-Kevin

So freaking true! Just went through this in a board meeting today. Had to laugh my ass off.
 
I just purchased this 370 and was researching marinas to start a relationship with for service work here at the Lake of Ozarks, a good friend of mine bought a Harris TriToon from Marine Max and always talked about the great VIP Parties Marine Max invited them to, then I saw that Marine Max had a tie to SeaRays and thought it would be great to have that connection. I called them and the service manager told me they will only work on 2009 or newer Sea Rays, I said if I had a 2009 or newer SR I wouldn't need a service center, his response was sorry I have customers waiting.

I was terrified as I thought OMG here is a dealer that doesn't want to work on a MNF they rep.... thank goodness I found this site as it has renewed my excitement around this new to me boat.

FYI, I also found a local marina, Berger's Marina, at the Lake of Ozarks that is now in I believe their 3rd generation of operating at the lake and they are fantastic, I won't even buy gas from Marine Max.
 

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