National Premier Extendable Buffer

DougLas

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2008
874
Lake Erie
Boat Info
39 Express
Engines
454
20150206_120254.jpg
After many years of testing and use this patent pending extendable buffer is going into production. There is a full review and demonstration on the Kickstarter site.

In order to be able to help manufacture the buffer investors are needed. Investing in the buffer through Kickstarter will allow the investor to have a new buffer when they go into production at way less then half the retail price for their investment..
Look the buffer over it is worth the money for the amount of work it will save one in buffing.

One of the big advantages here is not getting the liquid buffing products in the eyes as with what a regular buffer would do. And less ladder work since it will extend out 3 feet.

Go to this site to read more about the buffer.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2053523316/premier-extendable-buffer-polisher
 
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After seeing the video on Kickstarter of the buffer being used and reading what all it can be used for. What are your inputs and thoughts?
 
tiara in the snow 01.JPG
Looks a bit flimsy to me. Tough sell. Likely a nonstarter.
 
Actually it is as strong as any other buffer. The extendable shaft is made of high grade aluminum. And this is only the proto type not the finished product.
Thanks for your input.
 
My two cents - you should spend some money on a decent video if you're trying raise a decent amount of money. Watching the operator fumble around, constantly looking down at the device, adjusting "something", leads me to believe the buffer is a pain to use. It might be - but you should at least fake it for a promotional video :) Do something more than just a cell phone video. For $80k...your investors deserve it. You may also want to check with Safe Harbor Marinas and make sure they're cool with you using their logo in your video.

Another suggestion - remove the parts in the video where the operator is buffing areas on the boat that are clearly reachable without using the extension. For the first half of your clip he's buffing at eye level. Seems silly.

Thought 1.2) $80k does not seem like much capital to start something like this. Have you already tooled this? Or are the handle and head already existing and you're just adding the adjustable wand?

Thought 3.b) Show a video of a guy buffing the non-skid on the bow while standing upright (if your device has the reach?). To me kneeling on the bow is more of a pain in the arse than stepping up a step ladder to get the hull sides.

Thought 4.d) Be careful on that green color. Trademarks/copyrights/branding can be tricky things. You don't want Ryobi sending their lawyers your way.
 
To me the biggest problem is the control of the unit. The further away you move the buffer from the user (the fulcrum point) the more you loose fine control over it and the buffer gains control with a gyroscopic action.

An out of control rotary will certainly over come any force you can exert when it is extended. This would cause the buffer to jump or even swing away in certain situations. Also since you are not able to provide the same kind of control that you would up close I think it would lend itself to less control on the downward pressure causing gelcoat burns and scuffs and once that happens it's even worse.

Its back to simple physics for me. The further from the fulcrum point the more force you apply radially. This is why we use extended ratchets and breaker bars. Unfortunately in this case the user is at the fulcrum with limited control and the more you extend the bracket the more the buffer is in control.

I am out.

-Kevin
 
What is the point of the secondary grip if the user never uses it? In the whole video the operator holds the wand well past the grip, is that adjustable to move further up the wand?

Ed
 
tiara in the snow 01.JPG
Actually it is as strong as any other buffer. The extendable shaft is made of high grade aluminum. And this is only the proto type not the finished product.
Thanks for your input.
I should have been more specific. I was referring to the plastic joints. Buffing with a wool pad requires leaning into the surface you are polishing to get the desired results. Maybe the plastic will hold up? The design also puts a lot of stress on the shoulders of the user which is a bigger concern. So I think ergonomics will be an issue as well.
 
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I’ve been using buffers/polishers for about 50 years or so.
Here are my two main thoughts on it:
While it’s nice to be able to minimize the amount of up and down on the ladder (the worst part of polishing a bigger boat), my experience with polishing is that you need to be able to keep a close eye on what you’re doing as you move a machine across a surface. I’d be afraid that once you get the boat out in natural sunlight and step back from it a bit you’ll see an inconsistent blotchy mess of swirls.
Secondly, I think that having the weight of the machine at the end of the extension will result in tiring out the user’s neck and shoulders quicker than using a traditional machine would. A few years back I got my hands on an extension for my pressure washer. The idea seemed like a good one in that it would make cleaning the sides of my 2 story house easier by eliminating the ladder. While it was a good theory, it quickly became painful. Thinking it might have been because of my age, I handed it off to my stronger teen aged son and he had he same experience.
 
First - I think its great you have gotten this far - I remember your threads from 4-5 years ago talking about it.....IIRC you sold your boat to fund it....I would buy one and here's why - When I buff my boat it is often either in a yard with tough access (boats too close, uneven ground), or I don't have access to a ladder (keep the boat far from home or in a marina after hours) or its in the water (even with it on a finger pier, still hard to reach the bow and arch areas). I would probably still use a regular handheld too (great if this machine can work that way also) - Another thought, I try to "keep up" with my boat and not let it get too bad so I rarely need to use an aggressive compound and worry as much about uneven removal of oxidation - I can see if your really picky or only working only in ideal conditions or restoring really bad oxidation, but that's not me.....I've never done anything with kickstart, but as I said, I will be in when they come to market....
 
My two cents - you should spend some money on a decent video if you're trying raise a decent amount of money. Watching the operator fumble around, constantly looking down at the device, adjusting "something", leads me to believe the buffer is a pain to use. It might be - but you should at least fake it for a promotional video :) Do something more than just a cell phone video. For $80k...your investors deserve it. You may also want to check with Safe Harbor Marinas and make sure they're cool with you using their logo in your video.

Another suggestion - remove the parts in the video where the operator is buffing areas on the boat that are clearly reachable without using the extension. For the first half of your clip he's buffing at eye level. Seems silly.

Thought 1.2) $80k does not seem like much capital to start something like this. Have you already tooled this? Or are the handle and head already existing and you're just adding the adjustable wand?

Thought 3.b) Show a video of a guy buffing the non-skid on the bow while standing upright (if your device has the reach?). To me kneeling on the bow is more of a pain in the arse than stepping up a step ladder to get the hull sides.

Thought 4.d) Be careful on that green color. Trademarks/copyrights/branding can be tricky things. You don't want Ryobi sending their lawyers your way.

Yes it is not the best video. I did not plan on making a video until Kickstarter said one would help show the product. Problem I was going in to have both knees replaced and lacked the time time needed to put together a better presentation. Safe Harbor agreed to being in the video as long as their logo could be seen. And they could use the buffer to buff out boats for customer.

As for making the unit there is a company set up to start production. I have been working with them for over a year. The buffer actually came into being after I buffed out the deck of my 39 ft Sea Ray on my hands and knees. I looked for a buffer that would extend so I could stand and buff: none existed.
 
I’ve been using buffers/polishers for about 50 years or so.
Here are my two main thoughts on it:
While it’s nice to be able to minimize the amount of up and down on the ladder (the worst part of polishing a bigger boat), my experience with polishing is that you need to be able to keep a close eye on what you’re doing as you move a machine across a surface. I’d be afraid that once you get the boat out in natural sunlight and step back from it a bit you’ll see an inconsistent blotchy mess of swirls.
Secondly, I think that having the weight of the machine at the end of the extension will result in tiring out the user’s neck and shoulders quicker than using a traditional machine would. A few years back I got my hands on an extension for my pressure washer. The idea seemed like a good one in that it would make cleaning the sides of my 2 story house easier by eliminating the ladder. While it was a good theory, it quickly became painful. Thinking it might have been because of my age, I handed it off to my stronger teen aged son and he had he same experience.

As for weight while holding the buffer there is a strap available that can be put around the shoulder to take the weight off of holding it.
 
To me the biggest problem is the control of the unit. The further away you move the buffer from the user (the fulcrum point) the more you loose fine control over it and the buffer gains control with a gyroscopic action.

An out of control rotary will certainly over come any force you can exert when it is extended. This would cause the buffer to jump or even swing away in certain situations. Also since you are not able to provide the same kind of control that you would up close I think it would lend itself to less control on the downward pressure causing gelcoat burns and scuffs and once that happens it's even worse.

Its back to simple physics for me. The further from the fulcrum point the more force you apply radially. This is why we use extended ratchets and breaker bars. Unfortunately in this case the user is at the fulcrum with limited control and the more you extend the bracket the more the buffer is in control.

I am out.

-Kevin

It would seem to be that the unit would work in such a manner as fighting you. Surprisingly it doesn't. my wife has used the buffer on the side and top of the boat with out having any of them problems. Only problem i just could not get her to do the complete boat.
 
The feed back is really useful.
I'm not sure how many would like a orbital wax and polish unit? The picture of the unit laying on the ground is a orbital wax and polish.
 
The feed back is really useful.
I'm not sure how many would like a orbital wax and polish unit? The picture of the unit laying on the ground is a orbital wax and polish.

Douglas, it’s been my experience that a Random Orbital is of little use on a boat. I’ve got a great one, Flex 3401, that’s a workhorse and I use it on cars all the time with fantastic results. I’ve done some great polishing and correction with it including taking out some decent scratches. I love the machine, but not for the boats.
My Makita 9227 rotary with wool pads is my go to machine for boats.
 
Douglas, it’s been my experience that a Random Orbital is of little use on a boat. I’ve got a great one, Flex 3401, that’s a workhorse and I use it on cars all the time with fantastic results. I’ve done some great polishing and correction with it including taking out some decent scratches. I love the machine, but not for the boats.
My Makita 9227 rotary with wool pads is my go to machine for boats.
I think there is room for both on the boat. I use a rotary for compounding and polishing...once the surface is good shape I can use the Porter Cable orbital to polish and bring it back during the season and then use it to wax. I like the PC orbital because it's smaller lighter and you can use one hand.... I would much rather pull the orbital out before the rotary....
 
I think there is room for both on the boat. I use a rotary for compounding and polishing...once the surface is good shape I can use the Porter Cable orbital to polish and bring it back during the season and then use it to wax. I like the PC orbital because it's smaller lighter and you can use one hand.... I would much rather pull the orbital out before the rotary....

I can see where a porter cable could be used for applying wax or even a cleaner wax but I prefer to apply my last step products by hand. I’ve still got my old porter cable and what I have found it comes in handy for is using it with a medium carpet brush to deep clean non skid on a boat.
 

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