USS McCain and USS Fitzgerald collisions--reports released



Thanks for sending out the update. To say the least....it is disheartening to read these reports. This is the US Navy and something is seriously wrong with the leadership. I don't buy the "overworked and underpaid" story. If we were at War, they would be at a readiness state 24 hours a day. How can you put anyone in charge of a warship who perpetuates this nonsense?

I have no doubt whatsoever, that anyone that owns their own boat on this forum would be on the bridge if their boat was crossing commercial shipping lanes......and all the lookouts were on the port side of the boat????? It is just embarrassing.

I also feel that the Navy didn't do itself any favors in giving a Rules of the Road test to their sailors. The Navy is responsible for the training. If these folks don't understand basic navigation....either the sailors were incompetent or the Navy was....pick one and fix it.

I'm sure that if they asked for volunteers.....they would get a lot of experienced civilian boat captains or retired navy officers to ride shotgun on ships to help train these folks on shifts.
 
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I look forward to reading the reports, if available....

I'm disgusted by the failure of leadership at the top... This is really inexcusable, IMO...

I hope we get some leaders and better training out of this...I have lost confidence in our military. We have clearly fallen behind.
 
Common factor I hear between these two is OpTempo. I was forward deployed out of Yoko for two tours and know about OpTempo, we used to pull into our home port for a "Brief Stop for Fuel", we weren't even allowed off the ship to see family.

A great friend of mine (and former shipmate) who is now a tech-rep for some of the equipment that gets placed in CIC and Sonar Control tells me that between reduced manning levels (which takes away from assigned duties by needing more people for material readiness) and reduced training time, there is a lack of actual knowledge when it comes to these sailors actual job! (As indicated by the rules of the road test that was given.)

When I first heard of these collisions my first thought was "How in the world could that possibly happen??", now we know.
 
SNIP.... I don't buy the "overworked and underpaid" story. If we were at War, they would be at a readiness state 24 hours a day. How can you put anyone in charge of a warship who perpetuates this nonsense?

..../SNIP.

Things change completely during "time of War". More focus is on fighting the ship and battle readiness as opposed to "sweepers", Planned Maintenance and painting. Less stupid rules, way more seriousness. Been there, done that, got sea stories....
 
Things change completely during "time of War". ....... Been there, done that, got sea stories....

I don't think we are prepared for any war or battle tested....We have allowed the links in the chain to get very weak...Our adversaries know and appreciate it... (China builds a new military island - They are not concerned about the USN at all...Except for perhaps running into their island) ... It will be a situation where we will have to pay for "contractors" or "incentives" to get the experience we need and should we get into a situation...or hide our blunders from the civilians. I can't imagine how low moral is to allow this type of complacency and incompetence.... Train, Train, Train; set the tone from the top down; expect excellence and accountability.... Don't allow this shit and then point the fingers at the lowest level as the problem....

I really wonder if China or Russia has this problem.
 
I can't imagine how low moral is to allow this type of complacency and incompetence.... Train, Train, Train; set the tone from the top down; expect excellence and accountability.... Don't allow this shit and then point the fingers at the lowest level as the problem....

I've said for years "What we allow, we ultimately teach".

It would appear the US Navy allows a very low standard and in doing so teaches the young sailors who have never been in a battle that this is the standard to be 'upheld'. Sad.
 
I never had the pleasure of serving, but there is no way I can imagine this being part of our Navy... wtf !!!
 
My bet is it was pretty much that way in between most of our wars in the surface navy. Budget cuts, low perceived level of danger in the mission, etc. I also suspect the situation is vastly different in the carrier and submarine parts of the navy.
 
I just believe the answer lies in hands on learning....not video games, social media or gender training. The Navy has 430 ships. I'll venture a guess and say that 200 or so are "at risk" (the bigger the boat....the less the risk). You don't have to boil the ocean to solve this with 200 ships. Pull 200 guys experienced boat guys back from retirement or volunteers who have the experience and let them man the bridge when the Captain is sleeping. There is no better way to learn. You have to show people how to run a boat. Videos and simulators will never give you the feel for running at night and having systems fail. Having 200 people teaching what needs to be done and how to do it is the best investment the Navy can make.
 
Very sad and extremely disturbing reading.

I can't understand how the shit show spun out of control on the Fitzgerald. Pissing in the corners in CIC? I'd like to believe it is an exception but experience says otherwise.

The McCain is also disturbing in that the people driving the boat had no clue how to work the controls. How does one get in a position to pilot a naval warship and not know how to operate the throttles? Again, I doubt that level of incompetence is an exception.
 
Very sad and extremely disturbing reading.

I can't understand how the shit show spun out of control on the Fitzgerald. Pissing in the corners in CIC? I'd like to believe it is an exception but experience says otherwise.

The McCain is also disturbing in that the people driving the boat had no clue how to work the controls. How does one get in a position to pilot a naval warship and not know how to operate the throttles? Again, I doubt that level of incompetence is an exception.


I haven't seen the full report but I recall that after the collision the crew in the CIC were sealed in and couldn't get out for hours. It wouldn't surprise me they were pissing in containers (or in the corner) with collision, fire and flooding alarms blaring away thinking they were going to die in there.

In regards to the controls....it just seems that once the Captain ordered helm control to be separated from throttle......the entire bridge crew lost its mind.
 
Ahhh, thanks for the enlightenment on being trapped in CIC. The report in the link didn't make that clear.
 

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