Government Shutdown

In the end Trump was voted in and one of his campaign promises was a wall. I for one find it unique he is following thru on his promises

The promise was that Mexico will pay for it. There’s nothing unique about a Trump lie. Thousands before it, thousands after it.
 
The promise was that Mexico will pay for it. There’s nothing unique about a Trump lie. Thousands before it, thousands after it.
He was campaigning...if you voted for him because he said Mexico was going to pay for the wall... Then you made a mistake. If you wanted a wall (secure border) and think that he said it to put the Mexican president on the defensive then you won... He lost the election and the new president made a new trade deal. So was there something else going on there?... I don't know.

Tariffs taxes etc is where the money comes from.... You can pretty much say anyone is paying for what ever and be right.

It's just my opinion ....if we were all the same .... We would be bored to tears... Please don't take offense to what I said... It's just an opinion
 
If it can’t get any worse, now my local craft breweries can’t introduce any new beers :-(
The industry is regulated by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, which controls craft breweries mainly in two ways: approving any new brewery equipment and approving labels on new lines of beer.
Drink it before they get back. :)
 
Look if you have ever talked to a politician after a few shots they will tell you these "issues" will never be solved because they want them for the next election.
 
Republicans had control of congress for two years - why didn't they fund the border wall then?

The answer: ...

Actually because the Senate would have needed 60 votes to approve and the Republicans did not have that many. They would have needed Democratic votes which were not going to come.

-Kevin
 
Tariffs taxes etc is where the money comes from.... You can pretty much say anyone is paying for what ever and be right...

Even if Mexico would have written a check for the full amount for the wall project the Trump admin would have still needed to appropriate the funds through Congress so that they could actually build it and the democrats would have blocked it.

-Kevin
 
As a Naturalized American citizen from Northern Ireland I can tell you my entire family want a secure border.
My story : I was shot at more as a kid in Belfast N.Ireland than a cop in Brooklyn (almost).
My dad was a welder and a musician we moved here as the s-**t really hit the fan at "home"
His requirements where
1. He had to have a job BEFORE We arrived
2. He needed to HAVE a home BEFORE we arrived
3. He needed to have his family get physicals and annouculated BEFORE we arrived
4. He needed a sponsor BEFORE we arrived
Took 6 months in 1973 as the bullets where flying past my living room window so don't tell me how difficult these ILLEGAL ALIENS have it.
My dad NEVER took food stamps or assistance in 5 years he bought a house in the USA And raised his family.
My mother in law came here from CUBA legally working for a US NAVY LT. in 1968 and has owned 5 houses since.
3 sisters own houses and have careers.
I worked from the age of 13 and retired from NYPD after 23 -1/2 years
I even have a son in the USAF (we look good in uniform )
I bet I wave the flag more than most of you here And for good reason.
We have all contributed to this nation but Imigrantion only works when it's done in a controlled manner.
PERIOD.
 
Saw a story today. CNN had asked a local San Diego station for a piece on whether or not the wall was effective.

The story by the local TV station was that the wall was effective. CNN chose not to use the story, so the TV station released it.

This was on the website "The Hill"
The reporter is Daniel Plante. He is the brother of Chris Plante, former CNN reporter, now a radio talk show guy out of WMAL in Washington DC. We got a lot of play out of that today.

Jaybeaux
 
In my never humble opinion any government that doesn't work should be shut down. There. I said it.
 
Republicans had control of congress for two years - why didn't they fund the border wall then?

The answer: Because the majority of Americans don't support it, and Republicans didn't want to have that vote on record before the election. Instead they waited until they had a much more difficult path, just so Trump could blame someone else for his failed ideas. Yesterday he even denied saying that Mexico would pay for the wall. From May, 2017: https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2017/0502/Why-GOP-run-Congress-didn-t-fund-Trump-s-wall.

This whole shutdown is a manufactured crisis to try place blame somewhere else.
I think I've heard that term 'manufactured' somewhere else, it's been popular lately.:rolleyes:

Obama and MSM about wore out the word 'crisis' in 2014. Things haven't gotten better since that....if it was a 'crisis' then, even a 'humanitarian crisis' then, it certainly is now also.

From a sympathetic view the folks breaking the law sneaking across our border are part of this 'humanitarian crisis'. Here's a map showing where some of the ones that died were found in AZ. Border security improvements, including barriers, would save some lives in my opinion. Of course the weak among us say because there were walls the illegals had to go farther into the desert to get around them, therefore we are guilty of killing them. I feel if the borders are secure enough and they know it, not many would be dumb enough to try. Just think, these are only the ones that have been found, imagine...some never will be.

See how the section of fence that is only a vehicle barrier on the second map correlates to the dense area of bodies on the top map. Schumer, Pelosi, Obama, Hilary, media....they all know this stuff, that's why they supported it in the past but politics and 2020 have temporarily changed their stance.


desert deaths.jpg

fence map.JPG
 
As to the original question, some points:
- My eldest daughter works at Homeland Security and is furloughed. Her work involves creating new and improved tools for federal, state and local law enforcement. She's currently her family's primary bread-winner; she and her husband have two young children. They are OK financially, at least for a while and I can help if needed but they are starting to cut back. It is likely but not guaranteed that she will ultimately be paid for the shutdown period. My impression is that the primary impact is angst over not being able to go to work and do her job.
- It looks like from their website that the Coast Guard Vessel Documentation Center is closed. It's not clear if some of the web-enabled processes like documentation renewal would work but anything that involves a human likely will not. I'm not sure of the impact of the loss of the documentation function but I imagine it could interfere with boat buying and selling as well as anything to do with a new boat loan.
- The National Maritime Center which handles mariner licences is closed. I believe interruption of the mariner licensing function may have severe impact on the commercial side. Licensing has always had trouble keeping up with inherent cyclical demand so recovery after the shutdown is probably going to be slow and whatever impacts emerge will take a while to resolve.
- A while ago I used to oversee support contracts for both the documentation and licensing functions. Whether a government contractor and/or its employees will be paid for a shutdown period depends on the type of contract they are working under. They could be locked out of the facility and unable to work but will ultimately be paid or they could be completely cut off. If cut off, I feel for the workforce in West Virginia that supports Coast Guard functions as they can likely ill-afford any interruption of their income stream.
 
Actually because the Senate would have needed 60 votes to approve and the Republicans did not have that many. They would have needed Democratic votes which were not going to come.

-Kevin

So instead they waited until they had a much more significant barrier in the House? I think this makes my point.

This was a key theme to his candidacy - probably his single most visible issue. Why wait two years to fulfill the campaign promise? Because they knew they didn't have the support for it then, but they didn't have anyone else to blame. So they waited until they had someone else to blame.

Regarding @Woody's implication that I'm parroting some partisan line, FWIW, I tend to vote republican as much as I do democrat. I just think this whole shutdown is BS when they had a much easier path to a compromise over the past two years.
 
So instead they waited until they had a much more significant barrier in the House? I think this makes my point.

This was a key theme to his candidacy - probably his single most visible issue. Why wait two years to fulfill the campaign promise? Because they knew they didn't have the support for it then, but they didn't have anyone else to blame. So they waited until they had someone else to blame.

Regarding @Woody's implication that I'm parroting some partisan line, FWIW, I tend to vote republican as much as I do democrat. I just think this whole shutdown is BS when they had a much easier path to a compromise over the past two years.

Your lumping President Trump and all of the republicans into the same group with some amount of optimism about them working together. The assumption that they all are working for the same agenda, what is good for the American people. They are not.

Very similar situation which President Obama faced with his "Dreamer" legislation. Why didn't he get it through during his first two years when the Democrats controlled everything?

My issue is with the incumbent leadership of both republican and democratic parties. Their posturing and maneuvering is about their own careers, not the American people. Both parties are at fault.

This whole "Wall" debate from the democrats is about two things: Pelosi consolidating support from recent very progressive house members by taking this stance and not wanting to provide any "check the box" accomplishments for President Trump prior to the 2020 election.

Remember, previously Pelosi and Schumer supported the Wall, voted for the wall.

Ask Paul Ryan why he would not let the Wall get funded while he was speaker of the House?

At the end of the day it seems clear to me the way to stop the "shut down" game is to go back to passing a federal budget each year. When was the last time we passed a budget? If our government would establish and pass a budget, we would not have this "kick the can" down the road mentality.

Ok, just my Saturday morning thoughts.
 
So instead they waited until they had a much more significant barrier in the House? I think this makes my point.
Not necessarily. If you remember we were in a similar situation back at the end of 2017. Trump was not given the funding he wanted back then as part of the 1.3 trillian omnibus spending bill that he signed. At that point he made it very clear he would not do this again.

Trump even offered a very good DACA compromise (but unpopular from a republican perspective) that the Democrats did not want to accept.

For the last 2 years the Democrats have held up everything in the Senate requiring a 60 vote count. Almost all votes came with zero Democratic support. Congress was in a gridlock. Mostly because the Democrats were obstructing everything.

Pelosi and Schumer we're counting on Trump folding but did not count on his resistance. They figured this would be more politically decided however Trump and the Republicans this time we're not bowing to the pressure.

-Kevin
 
Methinks Schumer and others speak with forked tongue, but that's the way our gubmint works.




Everyone on both sides has been hypocritical at more than one occasion in their careers. It’s not a Democrat thing. It’s not a Republican thing. It’s a political thing. It’s like we all have memories of goldfish.
 

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