ProMariner on board battery chargers

paulswagelock said:
You can have an outlet in the engine bay from the interpretation of the ABYC rules. However, there are a lot of suggestions around the force that is needed to unplug that connection, and a standard outlet is probably not going to meet that. A clamp of some sort preventing the plug from coming out is needed.
Now, I am not suggesting you do that, but it is allowable.
Your application is probably better suited for a dry mount charger that gets hardwired. Most of these also have a power supply mode for when you are hanging out in the boat at the dock using lights and stereos and refrigerators. The one you selected will make short life of a battery of you try to use it that way.
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Paul, would you have documentation on that? That sounds close to what Dennis was saying above, as I took it, the act of unplugging is the spark source not the outlet itself.

MM
 
I can't find the specific reference, but several years ago I was in on a discussion about this topic. From what I recall, there was not a specific part of the code that banned the outlet, just rules that said items in the compartment needed to be ignition protected. So the argument / interpretation was you have your batteries in the engine compartment with either posts or studs. They are effectively the same as an outlet, if you remove the cable from the battery or add the cable to the battery, you will spark. the reason it was ok is the bolt/clamp that holds the cable will prevent it from coming off / sparking. A clamp on a plug of an AC electrical outlet would do the same. The caveat being the outlet would need to be a GFI protected circuit, but not have the GFI outlet in the bilge.
All this said - I would never recommend anyone put an outlet in a gas powered boat engine room.
 
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No, that is not what Dennis said ;) He said "you CAN NOT put an outlet in your bilge since you have a gas engine.".

That would be news to me if an outlet was allowed by regulations (USCG, as well?) in a gasoline bilge. I kinda see where the argument/reasoning is, and it's an interesting argument. My take on all that would be that while the reg's may/may not specifically list an outlet as a no-no, they do state that devices MUST carry an "ignition protected" certification. I am not aware of any outlet that carries that certification?

EDIT: Just thinking outloud here... Possibly/If the outlet was encased in a sealed container/box, including where the cord enters the box... Don't quote me, though, it's just a thought. Do the safe thing - just don't do it.
 
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Lazy Daze said:
No, that is not what Dennis said ;) He said "you CAN NOT put an outlet in your bilge since you have a gas engine.".

That would be news to me if an outlet was allowed by regulations (USCG, as well?) in a gasoline bilge. I kinda see where the argument/reasoning is, and it's an interesting argument. My take on all that would be that while the reg's may/may not specifically list an outlet as a no-no, they do state that devices MUST carry an "ignition protected" certification. I am not aware of any outlet that carries that certification?

EDIT: Just thinking outloud here... Possibly/If the outlet was encased in a sealed container/box, including where the cord enters the box... Don't quote me, though, it's just a thought. Do the safe thing - just don't do it.
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I probably wasn’t clear in my post, I was referring to the spark from the plug being the issue not the outlet part. Not implying you said it was OK to put a receptacle in the ER.

MM
 
My charger shuts off automaticly when it reaches 13.5 volts on the bank its charging and then maintains it at 12.5-12.6 volts. This method doesn't boil the batteries which is why batteries die quickly.
 
MonacoMike said:
I probably wasn’t clear in my post, I was referring to the spark from the plug being the issue not the outlet part. Not implying you said it was OK to put a receptacle in the ER.

MM
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No worries, Mike!
 
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Lazy Daze said:
FYI, you CAN NOT put an outlet in your bilge since you have a gas engine.
If you have shore power, do you not already have a charger in the bilge? If so, get a bilge approved charger (ignition protected) and replace the existing one (hardwired). I know the ProNautic series is an excellent choice for this - I do not know about the ProSport - you'll have to check into that.
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For the record, you can put a duplex in the engine room. Here is one new boat on a production line with one along with more new builds behind it, all with ER outlets. All are Coast Guard approved installs according to placards. Not saying it would be a good way of installing a charger. But apparently, ER duplexes are legal.
 
sbw1 said:
View attachment 62772 View attachment 62771

For the record, you can put a duplex in the engine room. Here is one new boat on a production line with one along with more new builds behind it, all with ER outlets. All are Coast Guard approved installs according to placards. Not saying it would be a good way of installing a charger. But apparently, ER duplexes are legal.
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I am so cornfused...

MM
 
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MonacoMike said:
I am from cornfield Indiana. LOL

MM
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I'm not sure why Tiara installs these to be honest. It has never been used, although its location makes it safe. It is high in the bilge, and not accessible without the entire floor of the cockpit raised so you can use it. That being the case, you would not use it if you smelled gasoline. Well in fairness, thinking people would not use it under those conditions. I suppose it is there for convenience. With today's battery powered tools, even that reason is obsolete.
 
Hey, by no means am I am an expert on the many thousands of specifications and regulations that boat builders follow - not that all builders follow everything, anyways, since it isn't always a "requirement". But to get certain certifications (and there are many), they would need to follow the specs that a certain certification company (ABYC, NMMA, USCG, etc) sets out.

At the same time, just because a manufacturer installs a certain device, does not mean it is OK. Maybe they made a mistake - maybe they weren't worried about acquiring a certain certification. I'm not saying Tiara is wrong or right as there could very well be more to this subject - just saying that "just because" Tiara (or any manufacturer) installs something in a certain way, does not mean it is safe.

I assume that picture, SBW1, is from 2004? That brings up another viewpoint... have any regulations changed since then? Does Tiara still put outlets in gas bilges?

EDIT: I just googled for that rule... the first hit came back with an "excerpt" from the ABYC rule book. Of note: It said "ABYC recommends compliance with this standard for all systems and associated equipment manufactured and/or installed after July 31, 2009." Of course, it could also just be an update.

I do agree with you, though, that in normal use, that outlet "should" be safe. It appears that outlet is encased in a box and, as you say, is mounted up high. This would go along with my "wondering" (above) about an outlet being in a sealed box. IF it would spark, the spark would be contained. This would be similar to how, for example, a boat's water heater is wired. Are there any certifications directly on that box? The ABYC rules (it's part of regs/rule E-11) DO state that any device must not be capable of making a spark.

BUT, for sake of argument, let's go with the idea that the box, itself, is "legal". Along the lines of what you said, we're still faced with the plugging/unplugging of an accessory - which I think we know can create a spark - and I'm sure most of us have even seen it happen at one time or another around the house. Granted, the spark is still well higher than the lower parts of the bilge... but still...

SO, it's sort of a catch 22 thing going on here... possibly the outlet is allowed, but actually using it is a bad idea. Even if all power was shut off before plugging in, there's always the very real possibility that the plug gets bumped (you guys have done work in your bilge's before, right? ;) ) or knocked around and creates a spark during use.

After all this... and believe me, I didn't intend write a short novel on this... it's possible that that particular style of "box" is allowed. But, as has been said by everyone, actually using it is a bad idea. There are much safer ways to get temporary power into a bilge.

The Coast Guard spec, by the way, is 183.410 and is basically the same thing as the ABYC.
 
Just hard wire the charger to a your shore power system thru a breaker in the main AC power panel. No need for an outlet that way and no possible way for a spark to arc at a plug. That is what was recommended by ProMariner when I installed mine and that is exactly how I installed it.
 
IF it would spark said:
A boats water heater box nor a electric box will not prevent a explosion if there was a spark inside them as they are not sealed and would allow gas fumes in. As is they only prevent accidental contact with the wire connections to make them safe. The only box that will prevent an explosion and/or contain a spark inside to prevent an explosion is a sealed explosion proof box or container which a boats water heater box or regular outlet box are not.
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If you remove the neg cable first on the battery it won't spark.
 
My previous boat, a ‘90 Chris Craft with twins had a factory installed duplex in the ER.

The charger and A/C pump were plugged in to it. I never had a need to unplug either of them, but was surprised to see it initially.
 
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