Jew Fish Key, Longboat Key, Anna Maria...2018-11-23

Happy Dayz

Active Member
Jun 26, 2017
543
Sarasota, FL
Boat Info
'06 260 Sundancer, 6.2, BIII, Kohler 5kw
79' classic Kona Family Cruiser jet boat..
Engines
6.2 w/ BIII, 502 w/ Berkekley
Great weekend and weather to relax and reflect! Very Thankful!

No Red Tide and most clear have seen water!

























 
Don't want to discourage your optimism, but I'm down here learning about the issue and the algae blooms coming from Lake Okeechobee... I'm very concerned about the aerosolization of the Karenia brevis toxins from a public health standpoint. I was on Siesta Key yesterday and the amount of children and adults coughing was alarming.... As someone that frequents many beaches I've never experienced anything like it...

Further, people seem very complacent and think there are no issues as the news / State of Fl hasn't been reporting the potential issue. It seems there are economic issues at play.

Originally I came down to study as it relates to the health of our waterways. Now, I've shifted focus on the potential adverse health effects and how the gov't is dealing with the issue.... There are notices on the lifeguard stands but no one seems to care.

There are the latest sampling results...Seems to have little to do with what is visible.

HAB_ID HABW181119-034
Sample Date Nov 19 2018
Location Description Longboat Pass Boat Ramp (Sarasota Bay)
Latitude 27.45
Longitude -82.69
Sample Depth (m) 0.50
Abundance high (>1,000,000)
Export Date 11/26/2018

Helpful links..
https://myfwc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...MkdskeOzi6kmunwW0V2xVE7k8gDJ4ffy_-Z-6G-QhrMOc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gq...zKriyfACsETn0_fIlw6kQVUKID4CWjf7Xzhmyhwy64YFo
 
Don't want to discourage your optimism, but......

I totally understand your concern.. as well, myself. But... born and raised in FL and deal with Red Tide every year. And I think the Lake O algae doesnt help, they need stop the dump, route back through everglades as filter before it too dies... both oxygen depleters...

and not near the water wildlife... sad..

didnt boat around here all summer! couldnt see your hand in the water!

Getting better... and the cold weather will help... got to boat!!
 
Well, I am on the way back. If this weather ever calms down enough to move the boat some more.

Hope to be back in CLW after the first of the year. Detouring through the Keys for a while.
 
....
didnt boat around here all summer! couldnt see your hand in the water!

Getting better... and the cold weather will help... got to boat!!

Good luck boating....I was hoping the winter would help, but I'm not liking the data... FYI - The toxicity is highest as the bloom dies... Love the sandy beaches and the sunsets...
 
Yeah water clarity still a bit off...but without question much much better than earlier this year.
Be down there in just a few more weeks, can't wait to spend New Years at The Tender by bridge.
 
No, it's because as it decomposes it releases several toxins including neurotoxins.

Appreciate your insight - seems like you are very knowledgeable on to the topic.

Could you help me with the effect that the Okeechobee discharge has on Red Tide.

Boating in the area at least half of the year, have a reasonable understanding of the water flow. I always thought that due to the gulf stream influence - northern areas such as Anna Marie Island, Clearwater did not receive the flow from the Caloosahatchee river. Yet they have significant red tide impact.

What is the impact of the Okeechobee issues on Red Tide north up the coast?

Thanks
 
Green algae is completely different than Red Tide. Red Tide is a natural occurance that has been documented since the time of the Spanish explorers. Green algae is much more recent and is due to the the lack of free flowing water from the dike that was built to stem flooding from lake O in the 1930s and the sugar cane plantations' runoff.
 
Could you help me with the effect that the Okeechobee discharge has on Red Tide.

What is the impact of the Okeechobee issues on Red Tide north up the coast?

Thanks

There are a lot of factors at play here.
*Red Tide blooms are naturally occurring in nature...
*Red Tide blooms occur a bit more in certain...more closed off water systems ..such as the Gulf of Mex, because it doesn't "flush out' as much with tides.
*Add to that point...major rivers such as the Mississippi River and others feeding the GoM dump more things into that GoM that the Red Tide blooms feed on. So the combination of being a bit closed off, and heavily fed by rivers..makes the GoM even more susceptible to Red Tide blooms rising a lot more than they occur along open ocean Atlantic coast. The water in the GoM isn't as clean as open ocean.

*Lake Okee...prior to man messing with it, it used to slowly drain into the everglades. Think of the everglades acting like a big cigarette filter...cleaning the water discharge. Two things happened...that man did. One...basically "diked" off that flow into the 'glades....and build lots of farming on that land. Namely sugar plantations. Two...diverted the lakes runoff into two rivers. One flowing west..it exits at Ft Myers. And one flowing east...exiting by Stuart/Jensen Beach. Now the lake builds up a lot of "bad stuff" from mans messing with land around there, namely the sugar farming, lots of fertilizers, pollution run-off from urban sprawl, etc. As the rivers flow from the lake to the shoreline...they of course pass through more farming, golf courses (lots of fertlizer run off on those), urban areas...picking up more pollution. These two rivers hit the ocean..and pour out this accumulation of green algae blooms and fertilizer and other pollutants. The "K.Brevis" algae that makes up the Red Tide....LOVES to feed on this polluted run-off and the red tide blooms REALLY take off...they just multiply like crazy.

Each year, look at where the Red Tides start. Ft Myers on the west coast, and Stuart on the east coast.

Now, on the east coast, it's wide open Atlantic Ocean...lots of tidal flushing there. So normally it's not that bad there. But this years Lake Okee "quality" was exceptionally poor..much worse that usual. You can refer to lots of pics and articles and posts over this past year..showing the lake and its runoff areas and the rivers that drain it east and west. They were a carpet of green! So even the Stuart area on the east coast this past year had a noticeable lingering algae bloom this past year.

Also adding to it...all the urban sprawl along the shoreline. Immaculate lawns kept green with fertilizer. Runoff from rain...more concrete, roads, developments. More boating pollution out in the water, dumping holding tanks. It all contributes!

As for how the red tides travels north ...after starting around Ft Myers..when this years Red Tide started (back in June)..my wife and I were in Captiva/Sanibel area for a while. It typically does travel north..but usually doesn't make it too far north. The tidal flow as the tide comes and goes twice each year...combined with how the "bay side" water flows on the inland side of islands such as Sanibel, Captiva, Boca Grande, Manasota, ...it just creeps along the coast. Granted much of the current offshore moves south, there's still flow going north as the tide comes in twice a day. As it creeps north it gets into all those nooks and crannies along the shoreline and just keeps creeping north.

Rare to see it make it all the way north to Anna Maria. And the flushing that Tampa Bay brings along usually keeps it from going much farther north. But this years was sooo bad..it even made it across Tampa Bay up to St Pete and Clearwater. I forget how much farther north it made it from there.
 
Appreciate your insight - seems like you are very knowledgeable on to the topic. / Could you help me with the effect that the Okeechobee discharge has on Red Tide. .... the gulf stream influence - northern areas such as Anna Marie Island, Clearwater did not receive the flow from the Caloosahatchee river. Yet they have significant red tide impact. / What is the impact of the Okeechobee issues on Red Tide north up the coast?

Thanks

You're welcome...

The issues of our waterways and oceans are one of my passions....I prefer to watch the Humpbacks in Hawaii, but sometimes the issues are more deadly than fun...

I've been down here studying and meeting the marine biologists from Mote, UF, FGCU, and the state...

You can follow and learn more by going to my FB page oceanproorg. I have many helpful links in the notes section...

Others here have posted some useful information...I will add a few issues.

Okeechobee plays a major roll in the blooms, but so do other watersheds. Everyone wants to point the finger at Lake O, but there is major runoff everywhere... Nutrient rich runoff happens from wastewater, watersheds, and elsewhere. Don't be fooled by legislatures focusing on one area. Yes, the reservoir they call Lake O is a big issue, but people need to also worry about their own backyard.

Also, people think because the blooms are no longer seen, it's safe...The data shows differently. These toxins can be odorless and undetectable without special equipment...

Further, these toxins -- From both the "Red-Tide" and "Green-Blue" are making their ways into the water systems and also becoming airborne.

I don't want to sound alarmist but for me it's a bit like WTF people... It is my opinion, that these toxins are potentially deadly and have adverse chronic health effects...And people here go about their business and are on the beach like there is no issue...I hear people coughing on the beach like it's normal... I've been to beaches all over the world and have never experienced the coughing I heard just last weekend on Siesta Key... Normally people go to the beach because of the water and the positive emotional and physical health effects... The health officials warn people about the acute health effects and basically tell people that the coughing is primarily in the populations of the young and elderly with weaker immune systems, and will go away once you leave the beach...To me, that is reckless guidance... They make these claims because it hasn't been overly studied, and there is little data...My opinion is this is by design...The underlying tone here shows clearly that the economic impact is of utmost concern...The area has lost tourist dollars and wants people to come here and spend and get the real estate market back up....It's been highly educational in all aspects to see the issue first hand, meet the players, and study all the factors...

I'm not here specifically because of west Fl.... This issue of algae blooms and water quality could happen anywhere. In fact as sea water temps rise it will become a bigger issue in other places.

Re gulf stream.... Yes, it has a major impact flushing and also providing warm water... It is the major contributor to Red-Tide on the east coast...

Look, I could type for hours, but I'll end with a couple of notes.

One, this issue is serious from the chronic health effect position... Airborne and drinking water (and seafood - fish and shellfish ingest these toxins).... You don't have to be in the water to be compromised. Further, I doubt there will be a correlation with peoples "neuro" related issues years later...So, I think the health officials are coerced into downplaying the issue by the leaders wanting economic growth.

Two, I read a research paper where the biologists were studying the east side. The issue of their HAB was primarily due to storm water run-off and waste water from cesspools, septic tanks, and waste water management...Not Lake O... The infrastructure needs improvement

The truth is the data is there...The knowledge is there....But, will the people actually do what needs to be done to solve it? Not sure....I see so much complacency...And people love to spend OPM, not their own. There is no question in my mind that the health effects are caused by human behavior.

"solution is dilution" is not the answer --- We are destroying our beaches, our oceans, and our health.
 
Thank you for that thoughtful perspective.

There is some logic that run off from rivers could provide a food source for Red Tide.

But why does Red Tide start showing up well off the coast - for example off of Clearwater this past year first showed up 20 miles out.
 
As has been reported....used to manipulate the optics...and to stay on talking points...

"Red-Tide" is a natural occurrence that has happened offshore for centuries. --- Sounds great, right? Those that want to pass this off as "natural" have their talking point....

Let me be very clear - Karenia brevis, the dinoflagellate primarily responsible for the "Red-Tide in FL is natural -- So what? Yes, the blooms can start offshore...Usually, without nutrient rich cocktails and warmer water, the blooms "naturally" die... It is all the nutrients along the coast (human & animal waste, fertilizer, FW algae) that have provided the perfect environment for their growth and death cycles.
 
well swimming is probably done for the year anyway... lol

was 44 here this morning :eek: dang winter till sat and 81/rain... but that will cool the water that last bit for me to get in... :cool:
 
Saw the temps in central FL. Cold!

Our boat is in Charleston - got there before Thanksgiving as per plan. December is about moving to Miami, planned to fly up tomorrow but the weather is horrible off shore. Don't really want to cross GA on the ICW - we have a 6ft draft.

Will get back to "nirvana" soon - when weather permits.
 

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