E15 in fuel !

Probably nothing unless you live in the Midwest. It is just a mid-term election ploy to help the farmers in the mid-west cover the gap in foreign tariffs. Most experts agree that E15 is a a serious mistake in older cars and boats which is why they are making it optional.
 
There should be a regulation prohibiting ethanol from marina sales, it is that damaging to marine engines, particularly anything older than 2011 or so.

MM
 
We are in the midwest, and we are starting to see specific E15 pumps separate from the normal E10. I have not seen a "standard" pump with E15.

The E15 pumps have a separate label that is clear and obvious.
 
Should not mean anything to most boaters. marinas typically don't sell ethanol gas
 
It's the boaters who fill up at gas stations that have to look out. Probably should always use fuel stabilizer. Ethanol absorbs water.

We had a car once that could use E85. So we filled up and saved a lot of money. Or so we thought, until we found the mileage on E85 was dismal. Didn't pay to use it.
 
I would hazard a guess that a majority of boaters don't use fuel from a marina. Their boats are on trailers or they take jerry cans of fuel to their boats. Those boaters will need to be careful.

I'm a hybrid: I use marina fuel (which by me still is E10) for my AJ; I also use gas station pumps to fill the tank for my dingy.

I see the push for E15 as an ill-advised ploy for short-term political gain. IMO, it's only purpose is to sway the opinion of a very small audience that is being hurt by recent retaliatory tariffs issues. I also see it as the camel's nose under the tent for E15. E10 was bad enough, causing us boaters all manner of issues. But at least engine systems were by-and-large designed to handle it (with exceptions of course). All of my engines (land and marine) explicitly say max ethanol content is E10; once E15 is "optional" there are forces that will try to make it "mandatory".
 
Is there additives that can be added to counteract?
 
Is there additives that can be added to counteract?

Nothing removes the offending alcohol, just attempts to stabilize it. Alcohol eats the rubber that makes seals for fuel systems. That is why alcohol race cars use stainless braided lines and specific alcohol resistant parts not found in most boats. E fuel is also low octane gas with high octane ethanol to reach spec. The gas is generally 3 octane less than advertised.

Ethanol has a 90 day shelf life before deterioration begins in a sealed container and a 30 day shelf life in a vented container, which is of little consequence in a car that uses a tank a week, but could be catastrophic in a boat that fills up once or twice a season, not to mention winter layup.

Once deterioration sets in the octane of the fuel is lost as well.

MM
 
Should not mean anything to most boaters. marinas typically don't sell ethanol gas

Once your in New England the only non E10 you can buy is in one gallon small engine gas or if you look around you can find high octane non ethanol fuel used in aviation or race cars. All options are of course stupid expensive.
 
Nothing removes the offending alcohol, just attempts to stabilize it. Alcohol eats the rubber that makes seals for fuel systems. That is why alcohol race cars use stainless braided lines and specific alcohol resistant parts not found in most boats.
MM
Racing uses methanol which is very corrosive not ethanol which is the gasoline additive.
 
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Here are the issues and benefits with ethanol blended gasoline:
Good - Ethanol raises the octane rating of the fuel which helps reduce detonation (knocking and dieseling)
Good and Bad - Ethanol is hydroscopic; the good is it absorbs water that finds it's way into the fuel which is common in boats and will dispose of the water in the combustion cycle. The bad is after about a 0.5% absorption the ethanol will drop out of suspension in the gasoline and collect in the bottom of the tank where it can be a cause of corrosion in metallic tanks.
Bad - Ethanol is not compatible with some rubbers used in hoses and gaskets. Some rubbers used in fuel systems pre-mid 90's softened and tended to deposit in the carburetors causing gumming and malfunctioning of the fuel system. In the late 80's SAE made changes to fuel system materials which rolled into the marine industry in the 90's.
Bad - Fuel efficiency is not as good as non-ethanol gasoline. With E15 count on your "mileage" to be about 10% less. There is negative economic benefit to the consumer using ethanol blended gasolines.

The bottom line is for outboard engines and their fuel systems manufactured and installed from the early/mid 90's on there should be no compatibility issues with ethanol blended fuels. Same for inboard engines. The issue with water absorption over 0.5% is still valid however the key is to use a fuel additive and use your boat.
 
Good - Ethanol raises the octane rating of the fuel which helps reduce detonation (knocking and dieseling)

That what you got for good? Fake News, true but still wrong. This is corn lobby BS, just get the octane grade of gas you want without the negatives of ethanol to boost the octane like most of us do.

The bottom line is for outboard engines and their fuel systems manufactured and installed from the early/mid 90's on there should be no compatibility issues with ethanol blended fuels. Same for inboard engines. The issue with water absorption over 0.5% is still valid however the key is to use a fuel additive and use your boat.

This is not entirely true either. Yes, hoses have been required to be ethanol resistant since the 80's, but this brings up two additional issues, the small parts in carbs fuel filters etc. were not, and because of the nature of ethanol even the resistant hoses are not capable of long term ethanol use. If they are older than 20 years they should be replaced to safely handle ethanol.

Living in an area with mostly day boaters that fill up at the gas station rather than a marina i have discussed this with dozens of marine mechanics and every one of them will tell you that ethanol has boosted their business because it destroys fuels stems.

MM
 
That what you got for good? Fake News, true but still wrong. This is corn lobby BS, just get the octane grade of gas you want without the negatives of ethanol to boost the octane like most of us do.



This is not entirely true either. Yes, hoses have been required to be ethanol resistant since the 80's, but this brings up two additional issues, the small parts in carbs fuel filters etc. were not, and because of the nature of ethanol even the resistant hoses are not capable of long term ethanol use. If they are older than 20 years they should be replaced to safely handle ethanol.

Living in an area with mostly day boaters that fill up at the gas station rather than a marina i have discussed this with dozens of marine mechanics and every one of them will tell you that ethanol has boosted their business because it destroys fuels stems.

MM
I hesitate to reply due to your tone however; ethanol has a nominal minimum octane rating of 112, you do the math, it's not that hard. The gasoline blend between the two octane ratings lends the pump rating. I'm simply stating the chemistry.
Seems your statements are mostly hearsay so we'll leave it at that....
Just to qualify myself I have built and owned methanol / nitrous oxide injected outboard boats, blown/turbocharged methanol injected jet boats and professionally I'm a propulsion engineer in the space launch business...… so to state that what I say is untrue or "fake news" you'd be better served to put up some science and facts..
Tom
 
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