Sea Ray Interior Veneers/Laminates

PlayDate

Well-Known Member
Dec 25, 2006
3,593
Washington DC
Boat Info
1994 370 Express Cruiser
Engines
454 Mercruisers
Many of you have contacted Restoration Marine about laminates used by Sea Ray on cabinets from 2004 models on. For most of these boats, Sea Ray used Leeuwenburgh Fineer BV out of Norway. Their manufacturing process creates a real wood veneer on a polycarbonate substrate. We do not stock these laminates although we have tried to build a relationship with Leeuwenburgh.

I received a notification today from an executive of Leeuwenburgh Fineer that Ultrawood, their US distributor, has gone out of business. We recently referred at least 30 CSR members to them and their phone number and email went dead last week.

While this may present a business opportunity for us it is really complicated by high cost of off-shore manufacturing, shipping, inventory requirements and reshipping costs. Further, the material requires skilled woodworkers for installation which have been equally hard to identify.

Of specific concern is that there is not an existing inventory of material stock used on Sea Rays for us to purchase. In fact the only US stock (limited finishes) is with Sea Ray and some at FPmarine (very limited). Leeuwenburgh indicated that Restoration Marine would have to fund production runs (50 sheets for each finish) to reproduce the material used on Sea Ray models which would be a material financial investment for us. Boat manufacturers are a small part of the their global business.

I'm posting this so that CSR members have the latest information and that those members who reached out to us understand the situation. As it currently stands, existing material in inventory can still be ordered through your Sea Ray dealer.

-John
 
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I called Searay and they gave me the name of ultrawood to call. They had none in stock themselves. If anyone finds a dealer with the laminate in stock for a 2007 48 sundancer please let me know.
 
John, As a prospective buyer of Searay's in this era specifically 07/08 48 sundancers. Are you saying our options for interior repairs due to delamination of cabinets and interior finishes is significantly diminishing?

In your experience if a boat of this vintage doesn't already have delamination issues are they likely to occur in the future?
 
Zach,

The usual problem we see with Leeuwenburgh Fineer is chipping near the door/drawer openings. The wood separates from the underlying structure.

This photo came from a thread by Joel_Md:

60848C4F-83DF-4790-8ED2-39E86CE5E47A_zpsb0nejbbb.jpg


It is not an easy repair. If your boat (or the one you are looking at) does not have a problem.......it is just something to keep an eye out for. In this specific case....the motion of reaching into the storage cabinet and the top drawer probably dragged a shirt sleeve or something being removed from the drawer like a towel catching the thin wood edge and breaking it. You can see it is not an issue on the other lesser used drawers.

I believe the issue with product availability will be resolved if there is demand for it. My bigger concern is finding people competent to install it. Our other products frequently are installed by owners and interior mechanics who usually have no previous experience working with it. Real wood is also sensitive to humidity.

dcwjd: I checked FPmarine today and they have zero inventory. It would appear that US inventory is a lot lower than Leeuwenburgh believes. If Sea Ray and FPmarine are both without stock....only a few Sea Ray Dealers may have the only inventory left.

I will reach out to Leeuwenburgh again but the business economics of creating a new supply of vintage finishes is seriously problematic. It could have been the major reason behind Ultrawood going out of business.
 
Many of you have contacted Restoration Marine about laminates used by Sea Ray on cabinets from 2004 models on. For most of these boats, Sea Ray used Leeuwenburgh Fineer BV out of Norway. Their manufacturing process creates a real wood veneer on a polycarbonate substrate. We do not stock these laminates although we have tried to build a relationship with Leeuwenburgh.

I received a notification today from an executive of Leeuwenburgh Fineer that Ultrawood, their US distributor, has gone out of business. We recently referred at least 30 CSR members to them and their phone number and email went dead last week.

While this may present a business opportunity for us it is really complicated by high cost of off-shore manufacturing, shipping, inventory requirements and reshipping costs. Further, the material requires skilled woodworkers for installation which have been equally hard to identify.

Of specific concern is that there is not an existing inventory of material stock used on Sea Rays for us to purchase. In fact the only US stock (limited finishes) is with Sea Ray and some at FPmarine (very limited). Leeuwenburgh indicated that Restoration Marine would have to fund production runs (50 sheets for each finish) to reproduce the material used on Sea Ray models which would be a material financial investment for us. Boat manufacturers are a small part of the their global business.

I'm posting this so that CSR members have the latest information and that those members who reached out to us understand the situation. As it currently stands, existing material in inventory can still be ordered through your Sea Ray dealer.

-John
Just got this email response from Searay corporate:
Sorry the material is NLA from Sea Ray but click on the link below they supplied Sea Ray the material .

https://restorationmarine.com/about-us


This is why you’ve gotten so many inquiries. Searay is giving your company out as a source to have it repaired.
 
We have a great relationship with Sea Ray and they have been awesome to work with. Sea Ray is correct that we are in discussions with Leeuwenburgh but we have a ways to go before we pull the trigger on ordering a production run at our expense.

I traded emails again today with Leeuwenburgh Fineer and they seem to take great exception to the skill required to install their product. I mentioned that Sea Ray only recommended a single installer (Mike who has disappeared completely) and the owner of Leeuwenburgh was not amused.

He did identify the most popular finishes Sea Ray used:

He indicated that 2 colors: Light Cherry 165 & Dark Cherry 164 were the most popular finishes in production. He indicated that both finishes were sold in Satin and High Gloss .....with High Gloss being the most popular. That seems to run counter to what I have seen but I would appreciate feedback from CSR members who have the Leeuwenburgh veneers on their boat.

Leeuwenburgh indicated that no orders for these finishes have been made for some time which would explain the lack of US inventory.
 
We have a great relationship with Sea Ray and they have been awesome to work with. Sea Ray is correct that we are in discussions with Leeuwenburgh but we have a ways to go before we pull the trigger on ordering a production run at our expense.

I traded emails again today with Leeuwenburgh Fineer and they seem to take great exception to the skill required to install their product. I mentioned that Sea Ray only recommended a single installer (Mike who has disappeared completely) and the owner of Leeuwenburgh was not amused.

He did identify the most popular finishes Sea Ray used:

He indicated that 2 colors: Light Cherry 165 & Dark Cherry 164 were the most popular finishes in production. He indicated that both finishes were sold in Satin and High Gloss .....with High Gloss being the most popular. That seems to run counter to what I have seen but I would appreciate feedback from CSR members who have the Leeuwenburgh veneers on their boat.

Leeuwenburgh indicated that no orders for these finishes have been made for some time which would explain the lack of US inventory.

I have the High Gloss in my '08 48DA.

-Tom
 
High Gloss Light Cherry
 
The boat I have under agreement is a 2011 520 sedan bridge and it has delamination issues that I will be looking to have repaired. It is high gloss dark cherry.
 
PlayDate, curious if you have made any progress on the material order. We've looked at probably five boats from 2007, 2008, and 2009 and every single one has the delamination issue. There is most certainly demand for the material. All the boats we looked at had the high gloss dark cherry.
 
Same thing here... Just sent you an inquiry via your website. Would like to learn how we could get some work on on the cabinetry of a 48 sundancer
 
PlayDate perhaps you could mitigate production cost concerns by considering other options other than the marine market for the products. For instance I purchase my woodworking veneers from www.rockler.com and www.woodcraft.com. If you explore your options as a supplier of woodworking specialty products beyond the marine market perhaps your inventory carrying costs would be closer to your acceptable risk level.
 
It might be of interest to some of us in investing in a production run if there was a return on investment in a reasonable time frame. Maybe you could email us what the initial cost would be and some idea of ROI and time.
 
PlayDate perhaps you could mitigate production cost concerns by considering other options other than the marine market for the products. For instance I purchase my woodworking veneers from www.rockler.com and www.woodcraft.com. If you explore your options as a supplier of woodworking specialty products beyond the marine market perhaps your inventory carrying costs would be closer to your acceptable risk level.


A number of you have contacted us so let me give you an update.

Basically, a production run of 50 sheets of light cherry gloss and 50 sheets of dark cherry gloss is required to create a US inventory. 50 sheets per color is the minimum order quantity that they are willing to do. Lignapal is a lacquered finish wood veneer which has some flexibility.

Basically, creating an inventory and customer shipping will be more expensive. We are concerned that US delivered customer pricing would be in the $850-900 per sheet range.....which is pretty expensive.

CNYBoater- I appreciate your suggestions. Our wholesale agreements with Nuvacor are focused on the global Marine market. We have a great relationship with them and we are a very small part of their Global Sales. Restoration Marine was founded to keep the Sea Ray 1990-2004 Nuvacor laminate finishes available to boat owners, mechanics, Marine Max and Sea Ray. The product we carry is an exact match for the finishes that Sea Ray used during that period. It is by definition a niche, repair focused market. We have sold the laminates to refinish other manufacturers boats but most boat owners simply want something repaired....they don't want to change finishes.

That brings us to your broader play question. Our concern about a broader play is what happened to Ultrawood. Ultrawood was a broad based play of selling Lignapal finishes to anyone in the US. To make that work in the laminate business you have to sell to cabinet manufacturers that will use your finish. Those manufacturers are the ones who build new cabinets for boats, planes, RVs, homes and offices. If Ultrawood could not make that happen in the last 5 years in the US.....it raises a concern about their price points and where those cabinet manufacturers are actually located.

In closing....we will probably work something out with them for the repair market but it may take another month of so of discussions. Even then we still have concerns about exact finish and color matching when stain and wood are involved.

Best,

John
Restoration Marine
 
A number of you have contacted us so let me give you an update.

Basically, a production run of 50 sheets of light cherry gloss and 50 sheets of dark cherry gloss is required to create a US inventory. 50 sheets per color is the minimum order quantity that they are willing to do. Lignapal is a lacquered finish wood veneer which has some flexibility.

Basically, creating an inventory and customer shipping will be more expensive. We are concerned that US delivered customer pricing would be in the $850-900 per sheet range.....which is pretty expensive.

CNYBoater- I appreciate your suggestions. Our wholesale agreements with Nuvacor are focused on the global Marine market. We have a great relationship with them and we are a very small part of their Global Sales. Restoration Marine was founded to keep the Sea Ray 1990-2004 Nuvacor laminate finishes available to boat owners, mechanics, Marine Max and Sea Ray. The product we carry is an exact match for the finishes that Sea Ray used during that period. It is by definition a niche, repair focused market. We have sold the laminates to refinish other manufacturers boats but most boat owners simply want something repaired....they don't want to change finishes.

That brings us to your broader play question. Our concern about a broader play is what happened to Ultrawood. Ultrawood was a broad based play of selling Lignapal finishes to anyone in the US. To make that work in the laminate business you have to sell to cabinet manufacturers that will use your finish. Those manufacturers are the ones who build new cabinets for boats, planes, RVs, homes and offices. If Ultrawood could not make that happen in the last 5 years in the US.....it raises a concern about their price points and where those cabinet manufacturers are actually located.

In closing....we will probably work something out with them for the repair market but it may take another month of so of discussions. Even then we still have concerns about exact finish and color matching when stain and wood are involved.

Best,

John
Restoration Marine

John,
Thanks for working on this. I have now closed on the boat and I have noticed even more delamination than I saw at the survey. I would be interested in buying sheets of it if it is available but would prefer to have an option to have it installed as well so I do t have to track someone down locally that is capable of installing it correctly.
 
Zach,

That is good news. I'm glad you were able to find some material. Was it the 1mm or 2mm material?
 

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