420/44 DB Owners Club

We had a opportunity for a 2004 420DB fall into our lap last week and currently have just put it under contract. It has the Cummins 6CTA engines with about 900hrs. Other major adds are a bow thruster and hydraulic lift (with a 10'6" Walker Bay centre console tender & 30hp engine). I have gone thru most of the thread for guidance on what to look for and saw the posts around 1050 to JoAna and bjturner on their purchases.

Survey is this coming Wed and hopefully the Cummins tech can come on Thursday - open to any additional words of wisdom of what to have checked out.

Question around the sea-trial - is it common for the surveyor to do this? and what 'tests' get performed?

Thanks!


Tomco, Well congrats on the 6CTA'S I love those things and anybody can work on them - they're old school and any marine mechanic worth his salt would know his way around those. Of course the first thing is a regular boat survey on the boat itself. Make sure the boat's hauled out of the water by the boat yard so you and the surveyor can get a look at the hull to make sure there are no blisters and if any, how severe. They can also check the running gear/props for damage. The most important thing of all is the mechanical survey, this would be done by your Cummins Technician, not to be confused with the regular boat survey. Insist that your cummins tech pulls oil samples from both motors and transmissions along with the generator to have them tested for salt water or fresh water intrusion. It usually only costs about $50 per sample and can tell you most everything you need to know about your motors. It's also a good thing for the Cummins tech to check your cylinder temps with an infrared gun and also a good idea to check exhaust temps simultaneously. While you're running the boat under speed at survey, the engines should go to 2600 rpm's and hold for about a minute or two then watch your water temps and see if they rise above 195 degrees (hopefully they won't). If they do you'll need to consult with the Cummins Tech for ideas. It's important that the boat runs to 2600 RPM'S to make sure it is properly prop'd. Our rule of thumb out here on the west coast is 2600 min on the 420DB not to exceed 5% of the 2600. (which would be 2730) that would be bad. Or 2470 as a bare minimum at 100% throttle. When most people sell a boat they strip it of unnecessary weight ie. fuel, water personal items, to help the boat run faster and cooler - you might want to make a personal note of these things.
 
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Tomco
Just thought of something else in addition to everything above. I'm sorry to say that experience has taught me not to allow the selling broker to choose YOUR boat survey technician or the mechanical survey technician. The brokers will only hire people that will not hinder the sale. If they have control on hiring the surveyors they also have the control of how informative the surveys are. Remember the brokers don't get paid until you buy the boat and they sure don't want anyone around that will jeopardize their payday.
 
Here's a question I posted on another thread (a thread I just realized I hi-jacked...about to rectify that!):

The wiring diagrams for this boat show "Line Side Panel Feed" and "Load Side Panel Feed" on both main battery solenoids. The main disconnect enclosure also has dedicated breakers for each. It seems the drawings that would show where they go are not included in the customer documentation, however.

Does anyone know what these two (line side and load side) feeds go to? Is one for switched loads and the other for continuously powered items?

Line and load to me usually mean power source and power destination, but it doesn't seem to the case here.

index.php


Also, the starboard load side panel feed is 150A whereas all the others are 100A. Is that because the windlass is fed from that breaker?
 
Well guys is official, we closed on a new to us 2008 470 Sedan Bridge in Bayport MN. Heading up on Thursday to bring it home 1700 down the Mississippi and Tenn-Tom back to New Orleans. One problem, now we own two boats. Please let me know if you guys know anyone who is interested in a very well maintained 2004 420 DB. I will consider any reasonable offer.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2004-sea-ray-420-sedan-bridge-103330820
 
Well, sorry for not getting back sooner to the comments posted - thank you! I had them with me last week and used them as a check list, so thanks for taking the time to post your guidance.

We did the hull survey last Wednesday which included a water test and haul out. The hull, stringers and deck were nice and dry but there were a few things noted: tachs were erratic, batteries for the bow thruster were undersize (Group 27); the smart craft system didn't work (had a 'could not connect' error message); the props had a couple small nicks, and bow thruster compartment was full of soot. The thruster sounded rough during operation. Also did a run in the dingy - that's going to be fun!

On Friday we had a Cummins tech on board for the engine survey - due to logistics there was just no way to have both inspectors on the boat at the same time. He spent about 4 hrs, including a water load test going over the engines. I had the list of comments you guys provided and went thru each with him - the aftercoolers was one of specific interest and the tech put a probe thru the anode hole. Both were clean as a whistle with only a piece of an impeller present and absolutely no corrosion. Being only a fresh water boat is probably the difference. Since the tachs didn't work properly and the tech couldn't get an accurate reading of the RPM's we couldn't determine if the boat was prop'd correctly - he did measure the boost under full throttle and said they were bang on. There were no oil, fuel, coolant or exhaust leaks after the water test - the engine compartment is actually quite clean. At the end I asked the tech if there were any red flags - none; any reason we should proceed - none; out of all the boats he works on what would he rate the condition of these engines - 95 out of 100!

We also did a complete system and boat walkthrough on Friday - every system tested and verified, every hatch opened and inspected, every door opened and closed, every light turned on and off (yes, there was one blown bulb).

We negotiated an adjustment for the survey and have agreed to purchase - it will close this week and we will be floating on it by Saturday!

Again, thanks for all the guidance as it was very helpful and informative
 
Well, sorry for not getting back sooner to the comments posted - thank you! I had them with me last week and used them as a check list, so thanks for taking the time to post your guidance.

We did the hull survey last Wednesday which included a water test and haul out. The hull, stringers and deck were nice and dry but there were a few things noted: tachs were erratic, batteries for the bow thruster were undersize (Group 27); the smart craft system didn't work (had a 'could not connect' error message); the props had a couple small nicks, and bow thruster compartment was full of soot. The thruster sounded rough during operation. Also did a run in the dingy - that's going to be fun!

On Friday we had a Cummins tech on board for the engine survey - due to logistics there was just no way to have both inspectors on the boat at the same time. He spent about 4 hrs, including a water load test going over the engines. I had the list of comments you guys provided and went thru each with him - the aftercoolers was one of specific interest and the tech put a probe thru the anode hole. Both were clean as a whistle with only a piece of an impeller present and absolutely no corrosion. Being only a fresh water boat is probably the difference. Since the tachs didn't work properly and the tech couldn't get an accurate reading of the RPM's we couldn't determine if the boat was prop'd correctly - he did measure the boost under full throttle and said they were bang on. There were no oil, fuel, coolant or exhaust leaks after the water test - the engine compartment is actually quite clean. At the end I asked the tech if there were any red flags - none; any reason we should proceed - none; out of all the boats he works on what would he rate the condition of these engines - 95 out of 100!

We also did a complete system and boat walkthrough on Friday - every system tested and verified, every hatch opened and inspected, every door opened and closed, every light turned on and off (yes, there was one blown bulb).

We negotiated an adjustment for the survey and have agreed to purchase - it will close this week and we will be floating on it by Saturday!

Again, thanks for all the guidance as it was very helpful and informative

Congratulations on the purchase! This site has help me tremendously through two boat purchases. The best $25 boat bucks I spend every year!
 
Well guys is official, we closed on a new to us 2008 470 Sedan Bridge in Bayport MN. Heading up on Thursday to bring it home 1700 down the Mississippi and Tenn-Tom back to New Orleans. One problem, now we own two boats. Please let me know if you guys know anyone who is interested in a very well maintained 2004 420 DB. I will consider any reasonable offer.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2004-sea-ray-420-sedan-bridge-103330820

Congrats! I love the 420 and yours looks great. Probably a little too far from me, however! Quick question (sorry if it’s answered in the ad) did you reprop the boat or is it running with the OEM stock props? Have you done any exhaust manifold work?
 
Congrats! I love the 420 and yours looks great. Probably a little too far from me, however! Quick question (sorry if it’s answered in the ad) did you reprop the boat or is it running with the OEM stock props? Have you done any exhaust manifold work?

First thing I did two years ago when we purchased the boat was have the props removed and took out 1.5 inches of pitch to match the fuel curves recommended by Tony Athens. I have not had any issues with exhaust leaks.
 
My horn compressor tank does not seem to be holding air. The compressor is located behind the jenny in the bilge, and is going to be very difficult to get to, so before I make the crawl of pain I thought I'd see if anyone has diagnosed/fixed this issue before me.

Here are the symptoms. Normally when I power up my 12V system the compressor would run for a minute or so and then shutoff. I'd rarely hear from it again. Over the last couple of years it has slowly started to run more frequently, until this summer when it would only shutoff for a few minutes and then it would start again. I've flipped the breaker so that I don't have to listen to it running all the time, so now I have no horn.

Planning to fix in the off-season. Anyone deal with this or have ideas?

Thanks,
Scott
 
My horn compressor tank does not seem to be holding air. The compressor is located behind the jenny in the bilge, and is going to be very difficult to get to, so before I make the crawl of pain I thought I'd see if anyone has diagnosed/fixed this issue before me.

Here are the symptoms. Normally when I power up my 12V system the compressor would run for a minute or so and then shutoff. I'd rarely hear from it again. Over the last couple of years it has slowly started to run more frequently, until this summer when it would only shutoff for a few minutes and then it would start again. I've flipped the breaker so that I don't have to listen to it running all the time, so now I have no horn.

Planning to fix in the off-season. Anyone deal with this or have ideas?

Thanks,
Scott

Start at post #1227 on this thread and read forward. I think you will find all you need to know. I have the same issue as you and others. I am going to order the kit before I attempt the try and get to it just so I have it and hope that is the issue. I am waiting for cooler weather to "make the trip" to get to it.

Bennett
 
Start at post #1227 on this thread and read forward. I think you will find all you need to know. I have the same issue as you and others. I am going to order the kit before I attempt the try and get to it just so I have it and hope that is the issue. I am waiting for cooler weather to "make the trip" to get to it.

Bennett
Thank you! Missed that whole discussion. Calling Kahlenburg now.
Scott
 
We have a slow drip/flow of water from the external water heater vent on the stbd side. I haven't identified why it is venting - water pressure or temperature, but there is also rust mixed in and now there is a rust stain down the side of the boat.

Wondering if there are two problems - one being the cause of water exiting the vent and second, the rust (tank needing replacement?)

Anyone else deal with similar problem(s)?
 
Mine does the same, no rust just a scale build up to buff off. Been meaning to figure out what’s going on with that.
 
My hotwater heater is a Atwood 11gal - regarding the weeping from the vent, it seems this is 'normal' and there is no 'problem' with the tank. It is corrected by ensuring there is an air gap at the top of the tank. Here is the Atwood document http://waterheatertimer.org/pdf/Atwood-Water-Heater-Service-manual.pdf and you will find the instructions on pg26. In short from this document:
PRESSURE-TEMPERATURE RELIEF VALVE
Weeping or dripping of a pressure-temperature relief valve while the water heater is running DOES NOT mean it is defective. This is normal expansion of water as it is heated in the closed water system of a recreation vehicle. The Atwood water heater tank is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank to reduce the possibility of weeping and dripping. In time, the expanding water will absorb this air. To replace the air follow these steps:

Step 1: Turn off water heater
Step 2: Turn off incoming water supply
Step 3: Open the closest hot water faucet in the coach
Step 4: Pull handle of pressure-temperature relief valve straight out and allow water to flow until it stops.
Step 5: Allow pressure-temperature relief valve to snap shut, turn on water supply and close faucet


For those of us that have to drain and winterize, the winterization process re-establishes this air gap. If its weeping during the season then this is the procedure to follow.

Now, just need to resolve why there is rust in the weepings but not from the taps!
 
Ok! Seems that summer in Michigan is over with?
Time to start thinking about winter Florida cruising!
The Pura Vida dos has spent the summer on the hard down south (sitting out hurricane season!)
Going down next week to start prepping for the season. One project is to install overboard waste discharge system in preparation for a trip to the Bahamas. I am working from 6 month old memories of a boat 2000 miles away. I am thinking there is not enough room above the installed waste tank to be able to poke a dip-tube from the top as in the factory system, can anyone confirm? If that is not an option I will tee into the dockside waste pump out line. I am wavering between a y-valve or just a y-tee fitting. Also wavering between a Macerator pump or the Sealand T series pump?
Any thought or opinions would be greatly appreciated! Also any photos of the factory system would be helpful
 
I swapped out every bulb on the boat to LED, which will help usage when on the hook...every little helps as they say
On our list of upgrades to make - would you mind posting the details (source, part numbers)?
 
On our list of upgrades to make - would you mind posting the details (source, part numbers)?

I replaced everyone of the G4 halogens (28 I think) with these and they have been perfect so far. Not heat and no amp draw. The issue with our light fixtures is finding a LED short enough to fit. These came from Amazon.

upload_2018-11-5_13-16-18.png


Bennett
 
My hotwater heater is a Atwood 11gal - regarding the weeping from the vent, it seems this is 'normal' and there is no 'problem' with the tank. It is corrected by ensuring there is an air gap at the top of the tank. Here is the Atwood document http://waterheatertimer.org/pdf/Atwood-Water-Heater-Service-manual.pdf and you will find the instructions on pg26. In short from this document:
PRESSURE-TEMPERATURE RELIEF VALVE
Weeping or dripping of a pressure-temperature relief valve while the water heater is running DOES NOT mean it is defective. This is normal expansion of water as it is heated in the closed water system of a recreation vehicle. The Atwood water heater tank is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank to reduce the possibility of weeping and dripping. In time, the expanding water will absorb this air. To replace the air follow these steps:

Step 1: Turn off water heater
Step 2: Turn off incoming water supply
Step 3: Open the closest hot water faucet in the coach
Step 4: Pull handle of pressure-temperature relief valve straight out and allow water to flow until it stops.
Step 5: Allow pressure-temperature relief valve to snap shut, turn on water supply and close faucet


For those of us that have to drain and winterize, the winterization process re-establishes this air gap. If its weeping during the season then this is the procedure to follow.

Now, just need to resolve why there is rust in the weepings but not from the taps!



I would guess that the rust stain is probably caused by a high iron content in your water supply(well or city).

under normal use you usually don't see the rust color in the water but when it is continuously dripping and evaporating in the same area it tends to show its presence. Some homes that have high iron in water tend to show up where the lawn sprinkler sprays the side of a house or a fence over and over the whole area takes on the brown tint.
 
I would guess that the rust stain is probably caused by a high iron content in your water supply(well or city).

This could very well be the issue. I drained the water out of the relief valve per the procedure and it was clean, also drain the water sitting in the vent hose and it was clean. This is a new boat to us, plan to put on a water filter next season and will monitor.
 

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