Can this guy really be for real, no fee unless we win

Unreal. Watched Dateline last night where an attorney created an organization to pay bail for criminals. One was bailed out through this program and was re-arrested as she walked out for a warrant for shoplifting and trespassing. The attorney said the problem was she didn't have the $900 for bail and they need to fix this. NO, THE PROBLEM IS SHE SHOPLIFTED!!! Don't do the crime and you won't need to worry about bail!
 
I'm an Illinois CCW holder. In our training we are taught about this specific scenario, albeit from the perspective of an individual (or homeowner) rather than a security guard. The laws for a security guard may be different.

In Illinois, as a homeowner, if someone breaks into your home and threatens you or your family, you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have the right to chase them outside and shoot them, because if they are fleeing your home they are no longer an immediate threat. You don't have a right to shoot them just because they are taking your property. At that point it is a job for the police.

I'm not offering (or interested in) a political debate - just communicating what may facts applicable to the situation. There are plenty of laws I would like to see changed, and this is a boating forum so its not the place for those discussions.

Overall, the overarching guideline is to protect life, not property.
 
Golfman25 we might be neighbors. I live close by and have stopped at that McDonalds also.
 
yobub said:
I'm an Illinois CCW holder. In our training we are taught about this specific scenario, albeit from the perspective of an individual (or homeowner) rather than a security guard. The laws for a security guard may be different.

In Illinois, as a homeowner, if someone breaks into your home and threatens you or your family, you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have the right to chase them outside and shoot them, because if they are fleeing your home they are no longer an immediate threat. You don't have a right to shoot them just because they are taking your property. At that point it is a job for the police.

I'm not offering (or interested in) a political debate - just communicating what may facts applicable to the situation. There are plenty of laws I would like to see changed, and this is a boating forum so its not the place for those discussions.

Overall, the overarching guideline is to protect life, not property.
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Same here but in PA. I used to be a certified armed guard and also was a state constable. In PA a security guard has no more authority than a private citizen (except retail theft, where a guard can 'detain' a suspect until police arrive). In other scenarios a guard cannot detain. To detain is to arrest, same thing. You are restricting their freedom to leave. And same scenario as you described, cannot use deadly force for property and cannot use deadly force on a retreating threat.

I don't know the facts of this case but did read that the suspect had pointed a gun at the security guard. Justifiable self-defense in my opinion if that is true but that is for the DA and/or jury to decide.
 
yobub said:
I'm an Illinois CCW holder. In our training we are taught about this specific scenario, albeit from the perspective of an individual (or homeowner) rather than a security guard. The laws for a security guard may be different.

In Illinois, as a homeowner, if someone breaks into your home and threatens you or your family, you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have the right to chase them outside and shoot them, because if they are fleeing your home they are no longer an immediate threat. You don't have a right to shoot them just because they are taking your property. At that point it is a job for the police.

I'm not offering (or interested in) a political debate - just communicating what may facts applicable to the situation. There are plenty of laws I would like to see changed, and this is a boating forum so its not the place for those discussions.

Overall, the overarching guideline is to protect life, not property.
Click to expand...
yobub, I could be wrong but I think that standard is pretty much the same across the country.

That kind of falls in line with the "stand your ground" laws. You can shoot to defend a life (yours or someone else's) but not to save property from being stolen.
 
yobub said:
I'm an Illinois CCW holder. In our training we are taught about this specific scenario, albeit from the perspective of an individual (or homeowner) rather than a security guard. The laws for a security guard may be different.

In Illinois, as a homeowner, if someone breaks into your home and threatens you or your family, you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have the right to chase them outside and shoot them, because if they are fleeing your home they are no longer an immediate threat. You don't have a right to shoot them just because they are taking your property. At that point it is a job for the police.

I'm not offering (or interested in) a political debate - just communicating what may facts applicable to the situation. There are plenty of laws I would like to see changed, and this is a boating forum so its not the place for those discussions.

Overall, the overarching guideline is to protect life, not property.
Click to expand...

That is correct. However, in this case the guard ran out and yelled stop. He didn't shoot until the perp pointed the gun at him. It's a fine line there. But, imo, no way a jury convicts.
 
Gofirstclass said:
yobub, I could be wrong but I think that standard is pretty much the same across the country.

That kind of falls in line with the "stand your ground" laws. You can shoot to defend a life (yours or someone else's) but not to save property from being stolen.
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Your first point is correct, your second falls into the murky water. Stand your ground does not apply in this situation at all.

Stand your ground is a reversal or clarification of "duty to retreat" standard, which required the victim to run away if at all possible. Then if a perp was shot their attorneys always claimed you could have ran, so you were in the wrong. Stand you ground just clearly removes the obligation to run away.

The basis for defending yourself and others is life endangerment, not property loss.

MM
 
MonacoMike said:
Your first point is correct, your second falls into the murky water. Stand your ground does not apply in this situation at all. MM
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My bad for not being more clear on what I wrote. I wasn't referring to the situation where the security guard chased him out of the store, or where a homeowner might chase a burglar out of the house. Once the bad guy leaves your house the immediate danger has passed. If you chase him out and shoot him you just cooked your own goose.
 
Gofirstclass said:
My bad for not being more clear on what I wrote. I wasn't referring to the situation where the security guard chased him out of the store, or where a homeowner might chase a burglar out of the house. Once the bad guy leaves your house the immediate danger has passed. If you chase him out and shoot him you just cooked your own goose.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly what I thought you said, just wanted to define the stand your ground part.

MM
 
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