Your token sailor... :)

Stopped following that PLEASE DELETE thread a week + ago. Too much to catch up on there.
 
Canuck01 said:
That's actually a valid point - but the blazing guns were due to a couple of mortars - depth charges? - like 'sailboat infestations' that got launched here.... You think anyone would have paid the least attention if I'd come in quietly? Not likely, but I bet a few folks are rethinking their attitudes towards the other. I am - and in favour of the powerboaters too. You guys aren't nearly as bad as I expected....hmmm... no saying that well, is there? :)
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Hardly the case at all. Let’s man up here and accept blame. Maybe then some of the others might be willing to overlook your cyber indiscretions.

Repeat after me:
I made a mistake...I shouldn’t have trolled your forum. I’m sorry, I won’t do it again.

The truth will set you free.
 
Canuck01 said:
That's actually a valid point - but the blazing guns were due to a couple of mortars - depth charges? - like 'sailboat infestations' that got launched here.... You think anyone would have paid the least attention if I'd come in quietly? Not likely, but I bet a few folks are rethinking their attitudes towards the other. I am - and in favour of the powerboaters too. You guys aren't nearly as bad as I expected....hmmm... no saying that well, is there? :)
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Canuck, you did come in "guns ablazing" but what bothers me is it was over basically a single post and it could have been handled differently. Perhaps privately or with a more subtle tone. You have stated you are a proficient "wordsmith" so I am sure that you could have achieved your goals in other ways.
There were a couple of other new member sailors that added to the melee prior to your entrance and have not been heard from since. Even one our most respected members tried to calm one of these new members down and was rebuked. Granted there were a few posts mentioning the SV motor etc. and did the SV change course but the general tone of the thread was the MV captain was to blame. There were questions and a discussion about what possibly could have happened. Then you showed up and "all hell broke loose" and the thread got far away from the initial subject.

To me, all most of what you have written has done is reinforce the negative vibes towards sailors. And for the record, I have dockmates that are sailors and I respect them highly. And as an aside, twice I have assisted an SV. Once when they couldn't get their motor started and the other time when an SV capsized and they couldn't right it. Both times I towed the SV into the harbor.

Also I can relate to the "sail infested" comment. In my world on Lake Michigan there are pockets of many sailboats, mainly around several of the harbors. When I first started boating out there, I would stay relatively near the shoreline and I found myself in the middle of a crowd of sailboats. Like myself at the time, these sailors tended to be relatively inexperienced. There were several times where I would be steering a course to avoid an SV and then they would change course back into mine. The simple solution for me? It is a very large lake and I have the power (and experience now) to go farther from the shoreline and away from the crowd. My respected and experienced sailor friends also tend to head for deeper waters.

There was a comment about MV captains "whizzing around at 30 kts with a beer in their hand". I am not going to say that it doesn't happen. One of the reasons I started boating on Lake Michigan was the amount of inebriated and generally inexperienced boaters on one of the most heavily traveled waterways in the US, the Fox River "Chain o Lakes" in Northern Illinois. I got tired of avoiding them, sold my smaller boat and moved up to a larger cruiser and moved to Lake Michigan. I find Lake Michigan boaters tend to respect the waters and take their responsibilities seriously. Personally I describe the difference as "drunks with a boat versus boaters with a drink (on the dock)". As a pilot I take the "8 hours from bottle to throttle" rule and captaining my Sea Ray seriously.

I am part of this forum so I can learn from more experienced boaters such as yourself and especially to learn about our favorite boats, Sea Rays. But I tend to not listen to members who degrade others or pontificate about topics. I look for subjective responses in the posts.

We tend to think of CSR more of a family and although a public forum, more of a private Sea Ray family. It is easy to forget that the whole internet may see these comments. Comments such as the one that raised your ire was not aimed at sailors specifically. Heck it was the first response in a long line of responses. When you consider the entire thread, not a single comment, the MV captain was being blamed.

So like yourself, after a few days of reading your posts I had to respond. Welcome to CSR. Have a cold Molson or other Canadian beer, get to know people here and take individual comments "with a grain of salt" before getting so worked up. Personally, I like a good German beer...
 
He's an f'ing idiot troll. Quit feeding him.
 
All I heard is a guy telling us how great sailboats are... built for the big open ocean and stormy seas, but can’t handle a little boat wake in a calm channel
 
wyrman said:
He's an f'ing idiot troll. Quit feeding him.
Click to expand...
I think you just did....

It's like this political shit show we are in right now... This country allows free speech... Unless you disagree.
 
I’m going to assume that the OP had good intentions when initiating his thread so let’s go with that assumption. I’ve been boating for over 18 years and I’ve encountered sailboats in Lake Washington, in Lake Union as well as out in the Puget Sound. I’ve encountered experienced and considerate sailors and others who could have used a little more understanding of the navigational rules as well as understanding more about how power boats run and the challenges we face.

I think the best parallel I can draw between sailboats and powerboats is the same challenge that skiers have with snowboarders. Yes we are sharing the same space (water/snow) but we move in very different patterns across that space. I was a ski instructor when snowboarding started to become really popular and inevitably, there were accidents when skiers were predicting a certain pattern that the snowboarder might follow, when in fact the snowboarder took a far different path.

There is a very similar issue happening when sailboats and power boats share the same waterways. Power boats primarily travel in predictable paths (unless when engaging in water sports such as towing a water skier or wake boarder), whereas sailboaters tend to be out just enjoying being on the water and they might just travel in a triangular pattern (such as in a bay) unless underway to a specific destination. I think what would be helpful here is for our sailor friend to enlighten us as to how their boats are used when just out for a day sail versus when there is a regatta underway or when they are traveling to a destination. I think that this is where much of our misunderstandings lie and it would be great to be able to get more information on the patterns that most sailboats follow. The intention of course is to increase understanding between our two communities and above all to prevent accidents.

When it comes right down to it, we all enjoy the water in our own ways - lake boaters, boaters in salt water, boaters rafting up on rivers - we all enjoy the water and the beauty all around us so why can’t we find some common ground and create some understanding? Just because you enjoy the ocean at 7 knots when I travel at 28 knots doesn’t automatically imply that we can’t get along.

I do believe that there was good potential in this thread so why don’t we start over and try to start the dialogue again? I’m sure that we can all refrain from the snarky comments long enough to learn a little something.

Respectfully...

Sandy
 
Must admit I was always curious about the different types of sailboats based on their masts, sails and positions. How can your boat have a 5' draft? Doesn't your keel go deeper than that?

And welcome aboard (pun intended) to a fellow Canuck.
 
I personally I like sailboats, I like powerboats, rowboats, canoes, kayaks - I just like boats. I don't engage in the bickering threads, this is my hobby that I do for enjoyment, so not going to get all worked up over it. I welcomed Canuck in another thread - yeah he might be a little edgy on some of his comments, but he is not the only one around here like that. I bet if we met in person we would all be friends. I figure he can add to the conversation - most serious sailors have traveled much farther and wider than the average powerboater, they know how to tie all these crazy knots, and can spend hours discussing when to tack or jibe (even if you don't sail you should know what this is), do we need another reef in or out, should we put out the code 0, there is a lot going on out there at 5-6knots (I am being serious, not mocking at all). I would like to hear more about all of these things.

And one other thing, eventually that 20hp motor in Canuck's sailboat is going to have a problem - that’s where we come in!

There is a country song that pretty well sums up what we should do:

Get along while we can
Always give love the upper hand
Paint a wall, learn to dance
Call your mom, buy a boat
Drink a beer, sing a song
Make a friend, can't we all get along
 
If y'all have a problem with him, why not just ignore him and move on? There are those that find his different experience interesting or useful or whatever. There's a nice long weekend ahead of us, life's too short for this BS....chillout
 
Thank you Steve S. for finally quoting me correctly. “sail infested waters” and “sailboat infestations” are two different vibes. Another member called me out on that as having a tone. I explained my intent and position and that was that.

Now I do have 2 legitimate questions for Canuck, which will be extended on an olive branch, but I need to preface.

This past weekend I was running straight down the middle of the lake heading home at 10 knots or so when I saw boat under sail running a few knots slower, but on the same arrow straight course that I was.

When I got within a couple of hundred yards of his stern I slid about 20 degrees off his port quarter and hoped in looking around he’d see me. I figured the least likely place I was to be seen was directly behind him.

As I got a bit closer I matched his speed, held my course and hailed him on the radio and got no response. I kept an eye on the captain to see if he would look in my direction, but he didn’t.

Before I had a chance to decide on my next move an amazing thing happened. The boat tipped and made a 160 degree course change that seemed to take place within its length. This had him heading across my bow and slightly towards me, but we were far enough apart that there was no problem.

My questions are:

1) How is that maneuver executed or even possible?

2) What observations could I have made to anticipate such an abrupt move?

I should add that we were many miles up the lake all by ourselves. This was not an avoidance maneuver.
 
Blkbird said:
Must admit I was always curious about the different types of sailboats based on their masts, sails and positions. How can your boat have a 5' draft? Doesn't your keel go deeper than that?

And welcome aboard (pun intended) to a fellow Canuck.
Click to expand...

I joined a Facebook group called “Women Who Sail & Cruise” and I’ve actually learned quite a lot about sailing though what I’ve learned has taught me that we have it pretty easy with power boats. Sailboats require a much deeper knowledge of wind and current and it seems that there are many different types of keels, masts, sails. I don’t know that most people who sail are able to do so without some type of formal training or years and years of experience. In a former life, my ex owned a sailboat and I learned quickly that it wasn’t for me. I got sick nearly every time we went out (which might have had something to do with his refusal to ever turn on the engine, but I digress...), the bobbing around when there was no wind was no fun, having to hang on for dear life when the boat was heeling hard over, didn’t help my upset stomach either. Thankfully I don’t get sick on our boat at all though I’m not able to go down below for very long if we’re under way and on plane.

So while I’m curious about sailing, owning a sailboat is most definitely not in my future.
 
Canuck01 said:
Actually, Mother Ocean teaches us humility on a regular basis. And as I said, I think to you - it ain't bragging if you've done it.
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Actually, that's the definition of bragging....If you haven't done it, it's called lying....

Humility is approached in a much different way...Usually by those that have done it and understand that they still might not have all the answers...

I hope you do gain something by being here and treat people with dignity, as most members do...Otherwise, pull up anchor.

Wally, you can provide some useful info.... You can also set back sailboater / powerboater relations a decade....You decide...Good luck.
 
I have sailed at least as much and probably more than this guy. I will admit power boat wakes are a pain and more than one pissed me off. My Dad was an avid boater. We had both Sail and power boats on Lake Erie. I have sailed from San Diego to Mexico and the Sea of Cortez and back. Most power boaters think sailors are too cheap to pay for fuel. Most Sailors think power boaters are arrogant a-holes. Neither is true. Sailing is a skill I found to be a challenge to learn with personal satisfaction to master. That is not to say it is any less of a challenge to run my power boat in a heavy swell or dock it in the wind. My full keel sail boat was much easier to handle in a breeze than my Sea Ray.
We are all share a love for boats and the water. It amazes me at how we don't get along.
A while back I got an invite to go for a sunset sail so I went. the folks on the boat had no Idea of my experience and you could feel the Power boater vs Sail boater rift. When the jib was un furelled I was sitting next the the winch so I sheeted and trimmed the sail later the skipper asked it some one could adjust the traveler on the main, again I was close so I did it. At that point some one commented that I seemed to know my way around a sail boat. So I told them my experience and they all agreed I had more sailing experience than everyone else on the boat combined!
I'm not better that any one nor is any one better than me. We all do what we do for fun. Lets have fun on our boats and don't waste time on BS that doesn't amount to anything anyway.
 
just saying- do I have the only powerboat that gets tossed and turned when another powerboat passes me while I am slow cruising at 7 knots. Where do I file this complaint?
 
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