'98 450 vs 2000 460

All good points and I could add that the extra beam on the 460 is noticeable for more living space. You see it mostly in the mid cabin. Josh and Frank are the respective experts here and the biggest advantage of the 460 is when you get a hardtop but it does add weight. It's worth it if you can get one however.
My friend had a '99 450DA, probably one of the last ones built. Really nice boat and faster than my 460 with Cummins 6CTA. I carry more weight and beam and his CAT 3126 seem well suited to the task. I performed much of his 450 maintenance so I know both engine rooms quite well. Yes, the 450 is a tad easier to get around and much of that is due to where they had to place the Glendenning Cablemaster on the 460. However having changed impellers on both starboard engines I can't say that one is easier than the other. They are a PITA if done in place so you drop the pump and change it on the bench. CAT does have a better primer and I like the Racor placement a bit better on the 460 but that's just opinion.
I liked his '99 450 layout with the galley starboard but the washer/dryer took up space until he removed it. Our combo unit hides in the mid cabin where it continues to remain unused, but it's out of the way. Also don't get hung up on the cherry interior thing. We were too before we realized that the maple interior does lighten up "the cave" and we are glad we went that route. But the right boat is the important issue not the shade of the fake wood.
The other point is the bow-rise that Frank talks about. While more noticeable on the 460 (the 450 seems to rise out of the water more easily), it is still very controllable but the boat does carry more weight. I've never thought it to be an issue on our boat. We are at 35,500 lbs with half fuel load. You're just propelling more real estate with similar rated power (She really needs about 50 bhp more per engine IMHO). Every boat I have owned has exhibited bow-rise and this one is just fine. I simply tab down as I power up and never really notice it but I am aware of other boats around while doing that. The horizon is always visible on our boat if I stand while getting on plane, so maybe our weight distribution is more ideal than other 460's? (Maybe it helps to have a bunch of chain in the anchor locker, but again, no problem.)
If you are looking for a 460 you will pay more for a good one of course. Look for a hard top if you can, balsa was deleted in the hullsides part way through 2001 so any potential port or stanchion leaking is less destructive. Bow thrusters are standard on most 460's but the 450 hardly needs one. Hydraulic swim platforms are different on the two boats, if equipped. The 450 had the TNT system which had the advantage of going straight down. Our GHS system is levered like a garbage truck and makes the same beeping noise. It extends aft a bit when deploying but isn't prone to jamming like the TNT. It works well and people still stop on the dock to watch the process.
We purchased our boat through a Sea Ray dealer at five years of age from a first owner who was meticulous and I have kept her to a high standard ever since with a few improvements (like lighting and SMX raw water pumps). I think that if you could find a good example of either boat from a CSR member, you would probably enjoy excellent examples that are well maintained. Both can be ideal boats and I agree that 450's are generally under-valued at present.
Just my thoughts and good luck in your search.
James
Jaws,
I, too am in the market for a 450 or 460. Having looked at both I'm curious why you prefer the hardtop option? Aesthetics? It would seem to me that it might increase the engine noise level at cruise. There would be a weight difference as well. I realize that canvas wears out much quicker than fiberglass as well but other than that, what am I missing?
Thanks for all of your information and help!
Bob
 
Jaws,
I, too am in the market for a 450 or 460. Having looked at both I'm curious why you prefer the hardtop option? Aesthetics? It would seem to me that it might increase the engine noise level at cruise. There would be a weight difference as well. I realize that canvas wears out much quicker than fiberglass as well but other than that, what am I missing?
Thanks for all of your information and help!
Bob

Canvas wear for sure, and I could be wrong but the hardtop boats seem to be more likely to have cockpit AC. That I would imagine is a big deal down south.
 
The hardtop boats offer a few things

Aesthetics,

Interior lighting
Lots of space for mounting electronics, lighting, hailer, gps, domes...

They main thing is they are much cooler. The hardtop doesn’t get hot like canvas and really keep the cockpit cooler with or without ac.
 
The hardtop boats offer a few things

Aesthetics,

Interior lighting
Lots of space for mounting electronics, lighting, hailer, gps, domes...

They main thing is they are much cooler. The hardtop doesn’t get hot like canvas and really keep the cockpit cooler with or without ac.

The difference in the heat radiated through canvas vs the hardtop is immense. I had my 400EC and 420DA at the same time while I was selling the 400. One hot Texas day I was under both covers and you'd have thought it was at least 10 degrees cooler outside under the hardtop.

I've noticed no noise issues with the hardtop. In fact, I don't have all the canvas flapping and poles clanking noises I had on the 400.

Resale value. Depending on location, a boat that has a hardtop will bring BIG money over a similar canvas top boat.
 
I can't comment on the 450 as I've never owned one or been on one for that matter ...
I came out of a 370DA with canvas to a hard top 460DA and like others have said the cockpit heat difference is noticeable with the hardtop. I never use the cockpit air in the warm weather as I don't keep the canvas up but I do use the cockpit heat in the winter when I cruise and it's nice to have.
I looked for 2 years to find the right 460DA for me, it was a great lakes fresh water boat that had very low hours due to the short seasons - they are out there if you're willing to be diligent in your search.
Heck - If I could find the right 55DA / 58DA mine would be available
 
Thanks Ryan.
The difference in the heat radiated through canvas vs the hardtop is immense. I had my 400EC and 420DA at the same time while I was selling the 400. One hot Texas day I was under both covers and you'd have thought it was at least 10 degrees cooler outside under the hardtop.

I've noticed no noise issues with the hardtop. In fact, I don't have all the canvas flapping and poles clanking noises I had on the 400.

Resale value. Depending on location, a boat that has a hardtop will bring BIG money over a similar canvas top boat.
Good points!
Thanks
I can't comment on the 450 as I've never owned one or been on one for that matter ...
I came out of a 370DA with canvas to a hard top 460DA and like others have said the cockpit heat difference is noticeable with the hardtop. I never use the cockpit air in the warm weather as I don't keep the canvas up but I do use the cockpit heat in the winter when I cruise and it's nice to have.
I looked for 2 years to find the right 460DA for me, it was a great lakes fresh water boat that had very low hours due to the short seasons - they are out there if you're willing to be diligent in your search.
Heck - If I could find the right 55DA / 58DA mine would be available
I can't comment on the 450 as I've never owned one or been on one for that matter ...
I came out of a 370DA with canvas to a hard top 460DA and like others have said the cockpit heat difference is noticeable with the hardtop. I never use the cockpit air in the warm weather as I don't keep the canvas up but I do use the cockpit heat in the winter when I cruise and it's nice to have.
I looked for 2 years to find the right 460DA for me, it was a great lakes fresh water boat that had very low hours due to the short seasons - they are out there if you're willing to be diligent in your search.
Heck - If I could find the right 55DA / 58DA mine would be available
I can't comment on the 450 as I've never owned one or been on one for that matter ...
I came out of a 370DA with canvas to a hard top 460DA and like others have said the cockpit heat difference is noticeable with the hardtop. I never use the cockpit air in the warm weather as I don't keep the canvas up but I do use the cockpit heat in the winter when I cruise and it's nice to have.
I looked for 2 years to find the right 460DA for me, it was a great lakes fresh water boat that had very low hours due to the short seasons - they are out there if you're willing to be diligent in your search.
Heck - If I could find the right 55DA / 58DA mine would be available
Thanks Alls Well. Keep me in mind if you consider selling.
 
11+ years on our 450 w/3126's galley to starboard w/birdseye maple in beautiful condition. Bow thruster, new electronics in '17, new dinghy alum rib W/15hp. We just spent 17 days up in Canada and didn't want to come home. We are black canvas and on the hot 75*+ days it's pretty toasty at the helm at idle speeds. We are boathouse kept and the canvas is still in great shape after 12 years.
2018-05-03 18.52.38.jpg
 
Jaws,
I, too am in the market for a 450 or 460. Having looked at both I'm curious why you prefer the hardtop option? Aesthetics? It would seem to me that it might increase the engine noise level at cruise. There would be a weight difference as well. I realize that canvas wears out much quicker than fiberglass as well but other than that, what am I missing?
Thanks for all of your information and help!
Bob
Bob,
I think the points are pretty well covered. All you have to do is observe the changes in boat design over the past twenty years. Sea Ray started putting hardtops on the big cruisers in the late nineties. The 58 and 540 brought it mainstream and when the 460 first appeared, it had canvas like the 450. The hardtop was initially an option but it was so popular that it became standard. Fast forward thru to the latest designs (now dead) and there is little to no canvas, just enclosed cabins with glass and a sliding door. Sort of goes against the original Sundancer concept, doesn't it?
I chose the 460 in part because of the hardtop. Extra weight? Of course, but with cockpit heat/AC (and a camper back) you have three season boating in our area. Also the hardtop is fairly quiet with less wind noise at speed. But you will also have half the cockpit in shade permanently due to a non-removable hardtop. So it's a matter of preference. Buy the best boat you want to afford, and have fun.
James
 

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