460 DA Owners Thread

James
I appreciate the continued thoughts -
I didn't pull out the cockpit fridge and had kind of ruled that out because in a previous boat when I had a leak in the connection to the ice maker I had it also running out the cockpit from behind the cabinets along the port side.
I thought of a pressurized water line although when I run the fresh water pump they hold pressure and don't cycle like I would think they would if it's a leak.
The carpet was very wet all the way across the aft area from about 12-18" away from the salon step up (if that makes sense)
My current hypothesis is that it's from a leak in the a/c recirculating flow some how
The water that was in the bilge below this carpeted area was no where near the carpeted level, at least 12" below it

Check the washer/dryer front clean out drain? I removed mine a month ago and was surprised how much water was in it. Since you are taking about the mid berth salon carpet and NOT the cockpit carpet, the possibilities are somewhat limited. Anything from the cockpit floor should hit a separate bilge compartment before it ever gets to the carpet. I have had my entire salon torn apart...fridge, washer/dryer, sofa, both heads and all head drain lines (replaced). If the carpet is wet, it is from something like the W/D or hot water heater which you have ruled out. There is an off chance that the water supply line to the mid-berth sink leaked and traveled to your carpet.

If the AC floor plan overflowed it would be a remote possibility to get to that carpet but not likely. I have attached a couple of PDF's that show the hull and stringer configurations below the carpeted floor in the mid-berth. This is very helpful in seeing what water should flow to where.

On a separate note: All summer long I would have water in the aft lower bilge you describe behind the sofa. I spent the summer trying to isolate HOW the water would get into that damn bilge. I would vacuum it out, wait for a rain storm or wash the boat and no water...I will make a LONG story short. After pulling the boat for the season I wanted to flush the water system a couple of times. The bilge was dry and it is stored indoors so rain can't be an issue. I removed the fridge and searched for any leaking water lines that could be draining into it..nada..I filled the water tank and about 10 minutes later, water in the bilge. I thought I was in serious trouble and had a cracked water tank. Turns out, the water fill hose and over flow hose clamps were loose! I didn't put water in my tanks all that often in the summer as I am connected to dock side water, but after thinking about it, it turns out the water would show up after filling the tank full and heading out on a trip/cruise.

So, if you are getting water back there, check the hose clamps...its not easy, but it may be a culprit in the bilge (not the carpet though). The other item that drains into that bilge aside from the hot water heater overflow, is the main sump overflow. As you would guess, I have a fix for that as well. :)

Hope this helps.
 

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Yes, I thought aft area meant cockpit but now I understand it to be the aft of the salon. All the above are good possibilities, washer/dryer and H.W. tank. I have never had water collect in that mid cabin bilge.
I have two different freshwater issues that are annoying:
1) I've replaced both pumps recently and one pump #2 wants to keep running at a low volume. Some have written about this but I wondered if a second check valve might help. It didn't. I end up just using the #1 pump and it produces better pressure than dockside connection on its own.
2) Sometimes, but not always, when connected to city water, the water tank fills. It shouldn't but it does.
Anyways, just little annoyances.
BTW, how do you get at the water fill and overflow connections to the main water tank? It's under the mid-cabin floor I assume but there are no access ports. Thanks.

On another front, I started losing prime in the port engine and had to prime like crazy with the little plunger to get it started. Ran fine once it was going. It only happened at the end of this boating season just before storage. So I had a diesel mechanic aboard last week and we started tracing and diagnosing. Checked Racors, Fleetguards, all lines and the manifold valves. No loss of diesel, just an air leak. Now we appear to have the leak identified. The primer plunger mechanism on the 6CTA has a check valve inside the assembly. Air was going back and forth through it and answers the question why it took a ridiculous number of strokes lately to get that motor primed. Parts are on order and I hope this fixes the loss of prime problem.

James
 
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Yes, I thought aft area meant cockpit but now I understand it to be the aft of the salon. All the above are good possibilities, washer/dryer and H.W. tank. I have never had water collect in that mid cabin bilge.
I have two different freshwater issues that are annoying:
1) I've replaced both pumps recently and one pump #2 wants to keep running at a low volume. Some have written about this but I wondered if a second check valve might help. It didn't. I end up just using the #1 pump and it produces better pressure than dockside connection on its own.
2) Sometimes, but not always, when connected to city water, the water tank fills. It shouldn't but it does.
Anyways, just little annoyances.
BTW, how do you get at the water fill and overflow connections to the main water tank? It's under the mid-cabin floor I assume but there are no access ports. Thanks.

James

My pump #2 was also cycling and I felt I had looked at everything. I knew it wasn't a bad pump because it was brand new. After a couple weeks of investigating, it turned out to be the small in-line water filter. It had a crack in it that wouldn't leak any water, but would leak air...or pressure. The pump wouldn't be able to maintain pressure for more than a couple minutes...even though the crack wasn't visible to the naked eye. So maybe check that if you have it in line.

The water tank filling is an odd one for sure!! I wish I could do it..LOL I know that in newer boats it is an option through a switch valve. I think it may be too much work to modify our existing, but haven't looked at it that closely. Interesting that it fills the tank...it should be connected to the downstream side of the pumps (outlet sides) not incoming from the tank. I wonder if your dock side pressure is so great that it is back flowing through the pump diaphragms??? The only way to stop that would be check valves on the 2 pump outlets I guess...but I'm not a plumber..:)

Getting to the water fill and overflow...Yes, that was a fun task! Open the floor hatch in front of the recliner. I found it was much easier to access the tank top once I removed the vacuum system in there...3 screws, 2 clamps and it's out. Then, I removed the 6 screws on the cover of the water sump pump...they really HURT to lay on...have a flashlight ready, prepare to cuss a little bit...tool in hand to tighten hose clamps...because it REALLY sucks to crawl in and out of this tight little spot...did I say flashlight...long arms are an asset...slither your arms and head in this space until you can get to what you need. It's not too bad, just a bit cramped. To identify it was leaking I had one of those cameras on a stiff wire that bluetoothed the picture to my iPhone...readily available at Amazon. I angled the camera into the location and saw the water coming from the 2 hose clamps. Since I have tightened it up...I have drained and filled the tank to overflow status 3 times and no water is leaking or appearing in the aft bilge under the sofa or on the top of the tank...so hopefully it has been resolved.
 
All - Great suggestions. I do appreciate the thoughts!
I talked with Sea Ray also this morning and the were quite helpful but couldn't come up with much more than we have here. I'll have some time on Saturday to help diagnose again.
I did learn that the water heater is a 220V 50Hz model that they now have a replacement part number for (Camco 11866) which is a Sea Ray specific model (previous was an Atwood) with a lower psi pressure valve. There is a Camco / Kuuma model that's the same with a 150psi pressure valve and is less expensive as you don't source through your local dealer.
 
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Yes, I thought aft area meant cockpit but now I understand it to be the aft of the salon. All the above are good possibilities, washer/dryer and H.W. tank. I have never had water collect in that mid cabin bilge.
I have two different freshwater issues that are annoying:
1) I've replaced both pumps recently and one pump #2 wants to keep running at a low volume. Some have written about this but I wondered if a second check valve might help. It didn't. I end up just using the #1 pump and it produces better pressure than dockside connection on its own.
2) Sometimes, but not always, when connected to city water, the water tank fills. It shouldn't but it does.
Anyways, just little annoyances.
BTW, how do you get at the water fill and overflow connections to the main water tank? It's under the mid-cabin floor I assume but there are no access ports. Thanks.

On another front, I started losing prime in the port engine and had to prime like crazy with the little plunger to get it started. Ran fine once it was going. It only happened at the end of this boating season just before storage. So I had a diesel mechanic aboard last week and we started tracing and diagnosing. Checked Racors, Fleetguards, all lines and the manifold valves. No loss of diesel, just an air leak. Now we appear to have the leak identified. The primer plunger mechanism on the 6CTA has a check valve inside the assembly. Air was going back and forth through it and answers the question why it took a ridiculous number of strokes lately to get that motor primed. Parts are on order and I hope this fixes the loss of prime problem.

James

James,
On the engine losing prime issue, I had an experience a couple months ago that it took a long time to discover. 3 different Cummins techs, $$$ parts replaced and no help. Then a friend of mine had a nitrogen tank and gauges helped me pressurize the lines and Whola! the supply line from the tank had split a flare fitting and was drawing air. That's in my to-do file for posting here but haven't got to it
 
Thanks Bill and Fred,
There is the true value of this forum when we can exchange issues and solutions.
I will wedge myself into the area aft of the shower sump next time and check those fittings on the freshwater tank. Also I will check that strainer filter as well on the #2 pump. You guys probably notice that the pump pressure is often higher than the city water connection, and I reinforced that after I mistakenly put on a new inlet, thinking it was a bad pressure regulator.
James
 
Thanks Bill and Fred,
There is the true value of this forum when we can exchange issues and solutions.
I will wedge myself into the area aft of the shower sump next time and check those fittings on the freshwater tank. Also I will check that strainer filter as well on the #2 pump. You guys probably notice that the pump pressure is often higher than the city water connection, and I reinforced that after I mistakenly put on a new inlet, thinking it was a bad pressure regulator.
James
Hi James,
Just a thought...if you have a "selfie" stick for your phone...try that first before wedging yourself back in there to take a look. That is how I learned it was leaking. I actually had a camera on a wire like this...https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYTHWK4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It may be of assistance.
 
Good evening.....I am going to change my canvas on my 1999 460. The current canvas is nice and was extended from the factory original but it still does not allow us to use the back bench seat comfortably when the back piece is installed. Our guests (or us) have to slouch down in the seat so we are not resting our heads on the back glass.

The new extension will allow for it to be a "camper back" (?). A bit more vertical back glass and no slouching to sit in the back bench.

Has anyone had their canvas modified on this year's model that I could get some pictures of? I would like to see how your canvas fabricator created the side pieces as well as where they placed the support poles. I trust my canvas guy implicitly but would like to see other examples of 460's. If anyone has modified their canvas I would love to hear from you and see some pics if available.
Thanks
Bill
 
I have a camper back on my 2003 and absolutely love it! I think my design wouldn't help you as I have a hard top and this shortens the top span. Let me know if you want any photos- I can email them to you.
 
I have a camper back on my 2003 and absolutely love it! I think my design wouldn't help you as I have a hard top and this shortens the top span. Let me know if you want any photos- I can email them to you.
Thanks for the response. I was able to find MANY pics of the 2002/03 like yours and after some searching and help from others on the forum found pics of the 99. So I am all set and look forward to getting the project started after the first of the year.

The gel coat work is all done wherein I had all the original snaps/studs on both sides removed, filled and sprayed so it looks as if they were never there.
IMG_1027.JPG IMG_1028.JPG
 
Have you checked A/C condensation drain lines being stopped up, making the AC pan overflow.
 
Great responses everyone - I found the issue
It is the pex tubing connection to the shower valve in the guest head.
Now the problem is correcting the issue.
The pex tubing comes from a constrained chase that isn’t conducive to making the connection to the shower valve connection. I’ll have to have a more flexible tubing to make the bend and connection required. It’s a tight spot without much area to work behind the access panel within the vanity cabinet.
 
Fred. I have a Milwaukee pex tool with the shrinking uponor connectors. If you want you are welcome to it.
 
L
Fred. I have a Milwaukee pex tool with the shrinking uponor connectors. If you want you are welcome to it.
Of course you have one!!!
The issue is the tight space that’s between the valve and the inside wall then to make a 180 turn back to the pex supply line.
I’m sure there’s a way to do it but I’m leaning toward getting a plumber. But 3 calls in I can’t get one that will come to a boat.
 
So This is happening right now on our winterized 2001 460 Sundancer .. My husband John jjcllc328 is doing all the work himself .... She's getting a new wood vinyl floor and Corinthinan marine carpet over our plastic synthetic cockpit flooring .. With two huskies on the boat almost daily..the plastic faux teak floor has been getting very scratched up... It was down when we bought the boat but I'd never recommend it with larger dogs and their nails ... My husband jjcllc328 did the template for Corinthian marine .. We went wall to wall and also wanted to cover the whole existing flooring underneath .. Will update with more pictures as we lay out the carpet... and finish the wood vinyl flooring ..
I am in the process of buying an 01 460 that I hope to bring home in mid January. I notice that you have the faux Teak flooring in the cockpit. Can you tell me what brand it is? Mine is coming without carpet. Thank you.
 
I am in the process of buying an 01 460 that I hope to bring home in mid January. I notice that you have the faux Teak flooring in the cockpit. Can you tell me what brand it is? Mine is coming without carpet. Thank you.
Knot at Work, the product that I installed is called smart core.it comes in 5" wide stripes by 4' long. It is 100% vinyl and waterproof. I glued it down with VCT glue. I squared off the hatches as it was easier then keeping the corners rounded. it took one day to remove carpet, about 1.5 days to smooth out the existing floor, .5 day to do the aft cabin and about 2 days to do the salon. We went on an angle following the galley cabinets as the admiral did not like howit looks going straight bow to stern. the hatches took a full day as it is a lot of cutting and i was going up and down all by myself to make the cuts. If you have any other questions let me know

John
 
I am in the process of buying an 01 460 that I hope to bring home in mid January. I notice that you have the faux Teak flooring in the cockpit. Can you tell me what brand it is? Mine is coming without carpet. Thank you.


Knot at work.........jjcllc328 (my Husband) misunderstood your question.. I see he answered you about the Inside cabin flooring he just installed..... The boat came with PLastic (hard like real wood NOT carpet) decking in the cockpit and on the swim platform....we are Not sure of the brand of the Cockpit flooring since the boat came with it when we just purchased her the end of August ....... I can tell you its glued down.... its hard like real wood Teak flooring...its not foam or carpet like at all...... We dislike it to be honest... its lifting up in spots... (glue must be wearing down underneath) and its scratches horribly with or 2 huskies who come on the boat with us daily.... We had Corinthian marine carpet custom made for the whole cockpit...my husband jjcllc328 made a custom Template for our boat to completely cover the faux teak flooring.... We are getting a new larger swim platform and will get the Corinthian marine vinyl carpet for that as well... while the hard plastic faux teak Flooring looks nice ... its hard underfoot....... it stains..... looks dirty all the time... and shows wear horribly..(scratches especially) .. We prefer the Vinyl Corinthian marine Carpet instead... I will show pictures once its installed on the boat.. I believe I did show a picture of it on the helm in a previous post...hope this helps...
 
Knot at work.........jjcllc328 (my Husband) misunderstood your question.. I see he answered you about the Inside cabin flooring he just installed..... The boat came with PLastic (hard like real wood NOT carpet) decking in the cockpit and on the swim platform....we are Not sure of the brand of the Cockpit flooring since the boat came with it when we just purchased her the end of August ....... I can tell you its glued down.... its hard like real wood Teak flooring...its not foam or carpet like at all...... We dislike it to be honest... its lifting up in spots... (glue must be wearing down underneath) and its scratches horribly with or 2 huskies who come on the boat with us daily.... We had Corinthian marine carpet custom made for the whole cockpit...my husband jjcllc328 made a custom Template for our boat to completely cover the faux teak flooring.... We are getting a new larger swim platform and will get the Corinthian marine vinyl carpet for that as well... while the hard plastic faux teak Flooring looks nice ... its hard underfoot....... it stains..... looks dirty all the time... and shows wear horribly..(scratches especially) .. We prefer the Vinyl Corinthian marine Carpet instead... I will show pictures once its installed on the boat.. I believe I did show a picture of it on the helm in a previous post...hope this helps...
Thanks. I'm planning on Sea Dek which is soft. It is also a glue down but most people on this sight and others seem to really like it.
 
Thanks. I'm planning on Sea Dek which is soft. It is also a glue down but most people on this sight and others seem to really like it.

Sounds great!... Post pictures when its done.....We were afraid of the *soft* Sea Dek as well with both our Huskies.. they tend to get Rambunctious on the boat at times and Love to play and run around...the Corinthian vinyl carpet is great for us.....
 

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