Brunswick selling off Sea Ray brand

You have a right to be pissed.....but you are headed to be banned from this site if you continue on this course. Go to the Holding Tank and say whatever you want....if you want to get pummeled.
 
There are lots of reasons boating is expensive and why so many manufacturers have gone out of business over time. Sea Ray has lasted a lot longer than most and the people that own them are proud to be part of the Sea Ray family. The only real question for Sea Ray and whoever buys them is: how large is the US market going forward?

Year over year it has declined and will continue to do so. I don't blame millennials.....my own kids in that age range just don't have the interest to have that as part of their lifestyle and discretionary spending. They just are interested in other things. It is their loss but they can still enjoy it with me from time to time.
 
Ah yes, more attacks on my character and word choice, yet absolutely no response to any of the information. I'm am PISSED. Both political parties are only operating for the interests of corporate America. The middle class is being destroyed.
As a fellow 37 year old, who has minimal college education I'd say you are way off. If the CEO's are the ones making all the money, then BECOME a ceo. YOU alone are responsible for your destiny, and regardless of what you've heard Bernie ain't handing out free boats for everyone. I'm debt free worth 7 figures and it didn't happen overnight.
 
The thread did take a turn for the worse, but I TOTALLY agree with ADDvanced and I'm a Boomer, not a Millennial.

Sea Ray's plight is reflective of the industry as a whole and a microcosm of the entire economy. Without the next generations entering the consumer economy, there is no economy. When the economy fails, all our assets go with it because nothing is worth anything unless someone else wants it and can afford it. When you come right down to it, the only things worth anything are food, water, and maybe shelter (of meager means). Everything else has an artificial value set only by the market.

The marina where I keep my boat has 850+ slips. Last season, easily 20 - 30% of the slips were empty and there were few transients coming in to fill them. What the marina did was to raise prices, not lower them, to cover the loss. They didn't increase services and do anything really to make it more attractive a destination. Guess where a lot of us are thinking of going next year? Sea Ray and the other boat manufacturers did the same. Boating is incredibly expensive now compared to what it was 20 years ago. Raising the prices and repeating the same old business model only kills the product. That's why none of us are really crazy about Sea Ray's product line. What have they done to innovate? Lipstick on a pig is still a pig. You have to think different.

Take another look at those charts and graphics that were posted and take the time to understand them. Is it true that youth expects too much? Maybe, but that's what Socrates said about the youth of Greece at the time. If you are confident about the future, then you might be lying to yourself more than necessary.

Gene
 
The marina where I keep my boat has 850+ slips. Last season, easily 20 - 30% of the slips were empty and there were few transients coming in to fill them. What the marina did was to raise prices, not lower them, to cover the loss

So sort of like the US Government raising taxes rather than cutting spending?
 
I love Pie...and pie charts. AADvanced, tone down the F words a bit. It would be a shame to see this thread end up deleted. You are clearly passionate in your feelings so express them in a way that won't get you banned. Unlesss that's your goal, which would be a shame.
 
Boats are expensive because everything it takes to make a quality boat has increased in price. Labor, precious metals, etc. it all costs more.

Quick story, in 1986 a close friend was deciding between a new Sea Ray 230 Weekender. I believe, or a new 30 foot travel trailer, both were near $20K. Today one can still buy a new 30 foot TT for around $20K due to engineering and new cheaper materials. A boat is a significantly different animal, smoke and mirrors will fail in harsh marine environment and kill people. Cheaper boats use cheaper parts, but even they cannot do it as cheap as the RV industry. This makes it hard to compete with the RV industry that has been going great recently.

MM
 
The other point worth making here is that all these folks who are the targeted demographic for the larger boats demand that their boats now have virtually every conceivable modern convenience on them. A friend of mine ordered a new 2000 460DA from the factory built to his specs. His option cost was almost as much as the cost of the boat itself and included a hardtop, a bow thruster, a hydraulic swimplatform, air conditioners, a cockpit air conditioner, a washer/dryer, a bose sound system, an icemaker, ultra leather seating, and cockpit carpeting. If you buy a new 510DA (the closest model in actual size to the 2000 460DA) you will find that the 510 has all those features as standard equipment with no upcharge......guess what happeded to the price of boats between 2000 and 20015.

So, has Sea Ray gone nutty with their prices or are Sea Ray buyers demanding more features ? Millennials also comprise a reasonably large part of Sea Ray's targeted demographic. So, if you millennials didn't require every conceivable modern convenience on your new boats, then more of you could afford them. That isn't Sea Ray's or the marine industry's fault.....in fact, if they are guilty of anything, it is of trying too hard to please the customer.
 
Millenial here. Income has increased sevenfold since I entered the workforce in 2008, two homes, two cars, and a boat. Stop asking Bernie for things and go get them yourself.

I still stand by my initial point that the SeaRay pricing for moderate dayboats is insane, talking MSRP and not 'negotiated price'. I still spent 'good car' money on a year old 24' boat, it just wasn't a SeaRay, unfortunately.
 
Millenial here. Income has increased sevenfold since I entered the workforce in 2008, two homes, two cars, and a boat. Stop asking Bernie for things and go get them yourself.

I still stand by my initial point that the SeaRay pricing for moderate dayboats is insane, talking MSRP and not 'negotiated price'. I still spent 'good car' money on a year old 24' boat, it just wasn't a SeaRay, unfortunately.

Another Millennial here - I entered the workforce in '04. Really hate to see this happen to Sea Ray but the marketplace has changed drastically over the past few years. It isn't just new Sea Ray pricing that's insane - most makes pricing is out of whack. So, I've bought used.

Four Winns has been sold a few times over the past 20 years (started out with a Sea Ray and then a few FW). I'm really interested to see who buys them and what happens.

Opposite end of the spectrum as "AADvanced" - if you want it, go for it. No one is to blame for their destiny but themselves - we have great opportunity in this country! Too many millennials give up easily, quit when it gets tough or want it handed to them.
 
The market is flooded with used boats. Go to boattrader.com you can find any late model low hour used Sea Ray you want at a fraction of new price. Why would anyone buy a new boat?

I haven't read this entire thread but the above comment is part of the problem with buying a new boat these days...manufacturers like Sea Ray and Cobalt made same dang nice quality boats so it's hard to justify buying new. You can buy a really nice used boat for a good price.

Very few people can afford the new boats of equal quality to used ones of "the good old days". The number of people who can afford these new boats are small and they are savvy with their money.

On the flip side, the wake and ski boat market seems to still be on fire. The target market in this segment are the millennials with discretionary income who want to flaunt their incomes.

Just my opinion...
 
I am guessing that it will be a shrinking market moving forward. There is a much larger boat sharing market today and expanding. The car industry has been investing heavily in new market directions and it is probably a great time to market Sea Ray.
 
One of my favorite boat builders was Reggie Fountain. With multiple World Championships....he could build a boat. He created many of the fast hull technology boat builders use today. Unfortunately, the US market caught up with him as well. It's just what happens when the virtual world is far more appealing than the real one to a lot of people.

Big congratulations to the Millennials that have cracked the financial success code without setting up more gofundme sites to achieve their dreams or whining about rich people. Hopefully you can help others sort it out.
 
Business questions for those of you with business smarts (especially you 37 year old ceo type and millenials with two cars and two houses and such; by the way I just told my 33 year old son to go find a ceo job and he will be all set. He's hopping right on that. Now if just the other 330 million people in this country will get off their butts and do the same) - What is the purpose of Sea Ray's over inflated listed retail price only to settle on a deal for significantly less price? What does that methodology buy you?
 
I'll speculate two reasons for that.....

1) Price management for US Sales, International Sales and resale (similar to the automobile model).
2) Perception management during the Sales process. If you can qualify someone on the list price.....they will "feel great" when the discounts are applied and/or they get more for a trade in.

The bigger issue is what can be done to save the company. The reason premium off-shore brands are having success in the US is because they filled a void. Sea Ray has moved to counter that with its L Class but it will take time. I have a friend who owns two Azimuts (55' and 65') and never considered a Sea Ray because he liked the European styling. He also is not a boater and has Captains and crew to maintain them.

While I like the L strategy.....some rationalization needs to happen regarding the boating market domestically and internationally for the next 10 years. While there is a lot of action at the low end and high end of the market, Sea Ray's core strength, in my opinion, has been the middle market.
 

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