OFFICIAL 390/40 Motor Yacht Thread

Robf said:

Guys, this is my first upcoming winter with the 390 MY. I have always winterized the fresh water systems and heads myself, but never had a boat with the manifold system. Any tips on winterizing the freshwater, or is it treated the same as any other system, basically ignoring the manifold and pumping the pink stuff though the entire system? Has anyone devised a good system for accessing the hot water tank easier? (i.e. an access port from up above under the settee in the salon?) Any thoughts appreciated!
Rob

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Rob, as I guess you're thinking, winterizing the water system is problematic in this boat with the optional washer/dryer because it blocks the water heater. On mine it pretty much blocks the manifold as well. Getting to the water heater either requires an ectomorph with very long arms who can fit himself over the top of the washer (after removing the cross-brace) or completely removing the washer; that is a full day or so job and not easy. I have tried to think about how to leverage the manifold but have never come up with anything. For the first few years I simply put in enough pink in the water tank to run it through the system. This will take 15 or so gallons because you have to fill the hot water tank for the pink to get to that side of the system. De-winterizing takes a while as well and my system developed a persistent smell I was convinced was from having to use so much pink. Without being able to reach the drain valve, flushing and cleaning the tank was not possible without the ectomorph or removing the washer.

Last year, I installed a new water heater with a stainless tank; no smells since. Here is the tank I used:


No more smell and the placement of the tank allows me to reach the drain valve by facing forward and putting my back against the after bulkhead . My first step in winterizing after running down the tank as much as possible has been to use compressed air at the shore water fitting to blow out the system. Now that I could reach the water heater drain, that is all I did last season. But, I did develop a leak on a water heater supply fitting; not sure if that was freeze expansion or they just came loose. So, just this past week I pulled the washer again and installed a standard winterizing bypass:


The bypass valve is placed such that I can reach it the same way as I do the water heater drain. I am hopeful that this year winterizing will only take a couple of gallons of pink. I will still blow out the system after draining the water heater, then flip the bypass valve and will run pink through from the shore water fitting.

Alnav, thanks for the suggestions. This is also my first season with a 390 MY and I'm contemplating doing some of the winterizing myself.

Do you have more information about that water heater you installed? That looks like a good move.

On an unrelated note, how do you feel about having the Cummins QSB engines as opposed to the bigger C-Series Cummins in the older model years?

Joel_MD said:

Alnav, thanks for the suggestions. This is also my first season with a 390 MY and I'm contemplating doing some of the winterizing myself.

Do you have more information about that water heater you installed? That looks like a good move.

On an unrelated note, how do you feel about having the Cummins QSB engines as opposed to the bigger C-Series Cummins in the older model years?

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The new water heater is an Isotemp SPA. It is a rather new model that, while the tank is stainless, the cover is poly as opposed to stainless so less expensive. More info here.

I did not see any 480CE's when I was looking so no direct experience. But, I believe the two engines are fairly equivalent in terms of fuel burn and max RPM. I certainly appreciate the advantages of a fully electronic common rail engine. Not sure if the 480CE smokes much but not having to clean the after part of the boat constantly as I did with older diesels I have owned is a huge plus. My sense is that the QSB engine is physically smaller and probably easier to get around and over while servicing.

Al
Thanks for the suggestions. You are correct on the hot water tank, I had to replace the pressure release valve and damn near killed myself. My chest had a bruise for weeks from wedging between the washer and the bulk head! I am contemplating cutting an access hole over the hot water tank, which I believe could be under the salon couch. I installed the bypass in my last boat and it worked great and would like to do on this one as well. I hate to replace the hot water tank before I need to, but may if I cannot access another way. I was hoping there was some magical combination on the manifold that made things easy!
Rob

Can anyone tell me some diagnostics for figuring out why the horn wont work. I checked the breaker under the helm and it did not fault out. I pushed it anyway and still no sound. I hear there is a compressor and the horn. And hear the compressor is what usually goes but I don't know where it is in the 40MY. Its big bucks so I want to take a turn repairing it myself. Thanks

RIVERDAZE said:

Can anyone tell me some diagnostics for figuring out why the horn wont work. I checked the breaker under the helm and it did not fault out. I pushed it anyway and still no sound. I hear there is a compressor and the horn. And hear the compressor is what usually goes but I don't know where it is in the 40MY. Its big bucks so I want to take a turn repairing it myself. Thanks

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The horn compressor should be at the forward starboard corner of the engine room right next to the Vacuflush units. It should be a Kahlenberg P449 series pump. There is also an air accumulator tank mounted on the forward bulkhead. The compressor makes a lot of noise so you should hear it if it is running. It could just be ready to run and waiting for the pressure to go down. There is a lever switch on the side of the pressure switch (black box on top of the compressor pump) that needs to be set to "Auto". You might then try to open the drain on the bottom of the accumulator tank, that will make the pressure drop and start the pump if it has power and is in auto.

Thanks, Al. If all is ok there I'm assuming the helm switch opens and closes an electro-pneumatic solenoid for air feed to the horn so will check that out I'm slowly getting through all the "as-is" items when purchased. I replaced the VHF antenna that was broken, working with the media center conversions done to the boat, locating GFIs that have sprung, cleaning out sump etc etc. Good thing the big mechanics appear all good (knock on wood).
Mac

RIVERDAZE said:

Thanks, Al. If all is ok there I'm assuming the helm switch opens and closes an electro-pneumatic solenoid for air feed to the horn so will check that out I'm slowly getting through all the "as-is" items when purchased. I replaced the VHF antenna that was broken, working with the media center conversions done to the boat, locating GFIs that have sprung, cleaning out sump etc etc. Good thing the big mechanics appear all good (knock on wood).
Mac

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Mac, yes there is a solenoid between the accumulator tank and the horn. I've never had a problem with it but I think it is mounted right under the horn.

The sump is ugly, sounds like you may already know this. Having the float switch so far above the bottom causes a mess to develop and fester. I changed out the sump pump for a unit that has an imbedded switch so that the tank is always almost fully drained.

Hi Al, I really appreciate your input. Yes the sump is ugly. My bilge is pristine and that sump tank sticks out. Whats the unit you used to replace the OEM sump? Fortunately this is in a semi accessible place for working on it. Someday maybe I'll have advice you can use, but being a one week owner that may be a little while. Not my first boat boat they are all different. Cheers

By the way my first choice for a boat name was "Ship for Brains" Just couldn't do it. Mayday Mayday Mayday This is Ship for Brains....I can only imagine the replies.

RIVERDAZE said:

Hi Al, I really appreciate your input. Yes the sump is ugly. My bilge is pristine and that sump tank sticks out. Whats the unit you used to replace the OEM sump? Fortunately this is in a semi accessible place for working on it. Someday maybe I'll have advice you can use, but being a one week owner that may be a little while. Not my first boat boat they are all different. Cheers

By the way my first choice for a boat name was "Ship for Brains" Just couldn't do it. Mayday Mayday Mayday This is Ship for Brains....I can only imagine the replies.

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Mac, I put a Rule RM750A pump in the sump. It's worked well for two seasons now. It will come on when the water level is 2.75 inches and will keep running a few seconds as well. This ensures the gunk, if any accumulates, is mostly confined to the lower well of the sump instead of the whole sump always staying about half full.

Your original choice of name would have been cool but agree you may have run into problems using it on the radio.

I've lost audio on my Clarion CMD4. I have the upgraded sound system from Sea Ray. Does anyone know where the external amp is hidden? if indeed there is one? I've checked out under the dash through the circuit breaker door, under the media center and can't see one. I'm assuming since all bands and sources are being displayed and all functions are working on the display, the external amp somehow lost power. I'll check out the schematic but usually that doesn't give much info on locations.
Thanks

RIVERDAZE said:

I've lost audio on my Clarion CMD4. I have the upgraded sound system from Sea Ray. Does anyone know where the external amp is hidden? if indeed there is one? I've checked out under the dash through the circuit breaker door, under the media center and can't see one. I'm assuming since all bands and sources are being displayed and all functions are working on the display, the external amp somehow lost power. I'll check out the schematic but usually that doesn't give much info on locations.
Thanks

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I found the problem. Loose fuse on amp that is located inside to the back of the media area above the salon AC units. Tough to get to but doable.

Just got a new bottom paint job and it looks great, new zincs and had the sump cleaned. Now for the one remaining fixit on my list.... for now. The signal horn doesn't work when pressing the helm button. I can hear an actuator click on and off as I press the switch so assume that is the solenoid. The air compressor works when hot wire was reconnected, accumulator tank good but the tech diagnosed there is an air leak somewhere in the run from the tank to the horn since the accumulator won't hold air. I told them I would make a go at finding it. Has anyone else had this problem? or know how the air line is routed to the horn on the hard top? (drawings in the manual show the horn on the fore deck but that's not my configuration).

Has anybody figured out a solution to rainwater getting under the wing doors and flooding the aft seating area? The previous owner of my 390 MY tried a Macgyver fix by fabricating teak strips as a threshold at the bottom of the doors in an attempt to keep water from flowing through the gap, but it doesn't work and might be making the problem worse by allowing the water to pool once it enters. It seems there is a design flaw in the slope of the floor in the aft seating area. Looking at the transom of the boat, there are scuppers that allow water to flow out from that area, but with the normal resting state of the boat the water won't flow out the scuppers until it pools to about 1/2" deep.

Joel, does this happen with every rain or just some extreme down pours? I don't recall having any issue with water coming in and pooling in the aft area and have operated in some heavy rains. Is the water pooling in the center since there are scuppers on each side and the transom door on the starboard side? Can you take a pic of where it is pooling?
Rob

Joel_MD said:

Has anybody figured out a solution to rainwater getting under the wing doors and flooding the aft seating area? The previous owner of my 390 MY tried a Macgyver fix by fabricating teak strips as a threshold at the bottom of the doors in an attempt to keep water from flowing through the gap, but it doesn't work and might be making the problem worse by allowing the water to pool once it enters. It seems there is a design flaw in the slope of the floor in the aft seating area. Looking at the transom of the boat, there are scuppers that allow water to flow out from that area, but with the normal resting state of the boat the water won't flow out the scuppers until it pools to about 1/2" deep.

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Robf said:

Joel, does this happen with every rain or just some extreme down pours? I don't recall having any issue with water coming in and pooling in the aft area and have operated in some heavy rains. Is the water pooling in the center since there are scuppers on each side and the transom door on the starboard side? Can you take a pic of where it is pooling?
Rob

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The one time I saw it happen it was a very hard rain which hit the port-side door. Other times I have come to the boat and found the puddle. I don't have a photo of it, but it's basically the entire floor in front of the aft seating area. I've learned to take up the carpet when I leave so I don't return to a soggy mess, and I keep a sponge mop on board to soak up the water. The scuppers don't seem to do much good because the floor doesn't slope in that direction. If the bow of the boat was a tad higher so the floor had a slight aftward slope then the scuppers would take care of the water.

Joel_MD said:

The one time I saw it happen it was a very hard rain which hit the port-side door. Other times I have come to the boat and found the puddle. I don't have a photo of it, but it's basically the entire floor in front of the aft seating area. I've learned to take up the carpet when I leave so I don't return to a soggy mess, and I keep a sponge mop on board to soak up the water. The scuppers don't seem to do much good because the floor doesn't slope in that direction. If the bow of the boat was a tad higher so the floor had a slight aftward slope then the scuppers would take care of the water.

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I have never had this problem either. I think there is a problem with the resting attitude of your boat. A full, or even partially full water tank may make that better but even empty mine is always a little stern-down. Any chance you have some extra weight forward? Last year, I did discover a flooded void last fall. The void starts in the forward bilge and goes quite a way forward. In the picture you can see the location of the void and the access plate we installed after cutting a hole to see what was up. The tell-tale was the red color near the pump, this is from the soaked plywood and was slowly weeping out. We were afraid it might be a serious issue but after a haul-out to check for external leaking and some non-destructive tests done by the dealer, we determined it was isolated and had not done any damage. Best guess is that the water came from the nearby water heater platform which had developed some leaking piping earlier in the year. Anyway, I did not experience any problems with the cockpit draining and did not check the attitude of the boat but I imagine it would have a big impact if not corrected.

alnav said:

I have never had this problem either. I think there is a problem with the resting attitude of your boat. A full, or even partially full water tank may make that better but even empty mine is always a little stern-down. Any chance you have some extra weight forward? Last year, I did discover a flooded void last fall. The void starts in the forward bilge and goes quite a way forward. In the picture you can see the location of the void and the access plate we installed after cutting a hole to see what was up. The tell-tale was the red color near the pump, this is from the soaked plywood and was slowly weeping out. We were afraid it might be a serious issue but after a haul-out to check for external leaking and some non-destructive tests done by the dealer, we determined it was isolated and had not done any damage. Best guess is that the water came from the nearby water heater platform which had developed some leaking piping earlier in the year. Anyway, I did not experience any problems with the cockpit draining and did not check the attitude of the boat but I imagine it would have a big impact if not corrected.
View attachment 49073

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Hmmm, that is thought-provoking. When I bought the boat last summer the hull surveyor and I had a similar discussion about that void being full of water. Apparently the previous owner did the same thing by putting in a clear plastic access plate/sight glass, and we could see it was filled with water. The surveyor found it peculiar to have that void filled with water, but didn't think it would cause a problem. I've been apprehensive about opening it up when the boat's in the water. I assumed the void was not very big, so it couldn't be more than 50-100 lbs of water in there. Is that void where the bow thruster is located? My boat is high and dry right now, so maybe I'll open up the access plate and see what's going on in there.

Joel_MD said:

Hmmm, that is thought-provoking. When I bought the boat last summer the hull surveyor and I had a similar discussion about that void being full of water. Apparently the previous owner did the same thing by putting in a clear plastic access plate/sight glass, and we could see it was filled with water. The surveyor found it peculiar to have that void filled with water, but didn't think it would cause a problem. I've been apprehensive about opening it up when the boat's in the water. I assumed the void was not very big, so it couldn't be more than 50-100 lbs of water in there. Is that void where the bow thruster is located? My boat is high and dry right now, so maybe I'll open up the access plate and see what's going on in there.

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I assumed that void was foam filled. Can anyone confirm what's actually in there?

I'd always assumed the stern high attitude of the boat was down to the heavy 480CE's midship, which sit further forward than the lighter the 8.1s.

Joel_MD said:

Hmmm, that is thought-provoking. When I bought the boat last summer the hull surveyor and I had a similar discussion about that void being full of water. Apparently the previous owner did the same thing by putting in a clear plastic access plate/sight glass, and we could see it was filled with water. The surveyor found it peculiar to have that void filled with water, but didn't think it would cause a problem. I've been apprehensive about opening it up when the boat's in the water. I assumed the void was not very big, so it couldn't be more than 50-100 lbs of water in there. Is that void where the bow thruster is located? My boat is high and dry right now, so maybe I'll open up the access plate and see what's going on in there.

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Joel, the void goes quite a ways forward but luckily stops just before the bow thruster. It took several shop vac fills before it was empty. Not sure but some rough guess calculations are that it holds at least 50 gallons which would be 400 pounds or so.

My yard's biggest concern was that the water was coming from the outside and yours probably isn't either but probably needs to be checked out. Even if yours is under pressure I don't think you need to be worried about sinking from opening it up although it is alarming to have a geyser in the bilge. I have had older boats with speed paddle wheels through-hulls had to be removed and cleaned just about every week so I got used to it.

I had thought my problem was a one-off but I'm wondering if it is a class problem. It seems the void is probably not well sealed somewhere.