Has Sea Ray gone stupid ???

miss read the post.. sorry

Do Over said:

you guys talk like this is something out of the ordinary ......I don't think so.....I have the invoice from when my boat was purchased back in 2002....$244,000.00......my purchase price last Sept......$60,000

ALL boat manufacturers have been raping folks forever on new boat pricing....no thanks

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That must be the cost of the completed deal....how much was the boat?

Summer Fun II said:

Sea Ray is pricing themselves out of the market.

Who on here or anywheres has $53k to $300k to pizz away on a boat ?

I'm not seeing it on CSR.

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For some it's not an issue of affordability...it's an issue of sanity. I agree, prices today are crazy and it's hard to look at these prices and think you're getting a good value for the money. I know that boats are not an investment but there is no way to do the math on a new boat and have it make any sense whatsoever.

Do Over said:

you guys talk like this is something out of the ordinary ......I don't think so.....I have the invoice from when my boat was purchased back in 2002....$244,000.00......my purchase price last Sept......$60,000

ALL boat manufacturers have been raping folks forever on new boat pricing....no thanks

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The economy and boat market were much better in 2002. In 2008 the boat market was tanking and I bought my brand new 2008 240SD fully loaded with a 350 MAG and all the goodies for exactly $50k. At the time I felt that was a good value... I got a lot of boat for good price and our family used it a ton.

In 2009 we traded for a new 2008 280DA and paid $100k. The dealer gave me $50K for my 240SD and again, I felt it was a good value... a lot more boat, a lot more uses for us and it was cheaper than buying a lake home. We sold the 280DA in the 2012 season for $85k. That, to me, was a fair price and losing only $15k for 4 seasons of use didn't bother me bit.

Today... there is no way that I can look at new boat prices from ANY manufacturer and feel like the price is a good value. I just purchased a 1997 23' boat that is loaded and in showroom condition that I paid under $15k. That is a good value to me.

Woody said:

That must be the cost of the completed deal....how much was the boat?

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Thats not the price of the final financed deal....it's the price on the boat invoice ( including options)....the guy financed $190,000.

My muddled thoughts:

1) Everything is relative
2) Everyone loves to feel like they got a GREAT deal in their favor.
3) One man's value is another man's excess.
4) Manufacturers will price their wares based on what the market will bear.
5) With new technologies comes expensive capital/equipment upgrades.
6) Some guy in Boston is selling and shipping snow across the country.
7) A fool and his money are soon parted.
8) Some manufacturers will reinvest and save during the boom years for a rainy day.

I love car services that tell you what others paid for the car you are contemplating purchasing so that you know if you got a good deal. It is such strange a concept to me, it reminds me of the old adage: if everyone jumps off of a bridge ..............

There's a big part of me who thinks that anyone who buys just about anything new is nuts.

I have a pretty good understanding of how depreciation eats away at the value of things, and toys are among the worst when it comes to losing their value.

I went to a Sportsman Show here in Phoenix a week ago and was amazed to see how many 22'-26' boats ranging in price from $75K to well over $100K.

So, if a person buys a new $75K boat today and takes good care of it and does all the maintenance, it will be worth somewhere around $40K in 5 years. That's a pretty big hit.

I guess economy of scale went out the window with the economy. How many do you think they sell a year? If they sold 4x as many, the price would be a lot less.

You'd think the price of entry for a new boat would drive prices of used boats up.

Gofirstclass said:

There's a big part of me who thinks that anyone who buys just about anything new is nuts.

I have a pretty good understanding of how depreciation eats away at the value of things, and toys are among the worst when it comes to losing their value.

I went to a Sportsman Show here in Phoenix a week ago and was amazed to see how many 22'-26' boats ranging in price from $75K to well over $100K.

So, if a person buys a new $75K boat today and takes good care of it and does all the maintenance, it will be worth somewhere around $40K in 5 years. That's a pretty big hit.

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There's a lot of ways to look things. Boats kind of fall in the category of fun and entertainment. You could spend the 75K on Caribbean cruises and have nothing to show for it....even the suntan is gone.

Woody said:

There's a lot of ways to look things. Boats kind of fall in the category of fun and entertainment. You could spend the 75K on Caribbean cruises and have nothing to show for it....even the suntan is gone.

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That's true, though we are the sum of our experiences.

Certainly the price of these boats concern me from the value proposition. Yet, my biggest question is how they are being purchased. If the financial fundamentals are solid and the people purchasing can afford them with cash then great. But, I'm just getting the feeling this is a house of cards and a little deja vous.

As long as there are people willing to,pay the price of something new, then that's not overpriced. It's the basis of most things. A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller. So...I'm not willing to pay the price, therefore it's not for me.

I paid aid what I considered a fair price for my previously loved Sea Ray...I'm happy.

Mark

Summer Fun II said:

Don't give me that crap Sea Ray is built better with fit and finish workmanship.

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Hi Wayne. Karen and I just went through this and although I hate to bring up the issue again, I must say that there definitely IS a HUGE difference between the two. You gotta dig, and look in all the nooks and crannies on the new ones, and compare similar sized boats of similar years that have had similar treatment when you're looking at the pre owned ones. In the end, even though the parent company is the same, Sea Rays are quality builds in general. We are still looking for a "hard top' or "pilot house" type of boat in the 22 to 24 foot range and there just aren't any around here. In a moment of weakness, and panic, and frustration, I actually managed to convince myself to consider the 24' Baythingy. I was convinced once and for all that I would not be happy with one, regardless of how new or old it was. By keeping the price down they are providing a way for people who may not normally be able to budget for a boat, an opportunity to get on the water. Sorry I got a bit off the thread topic there.

I think a lot of folks who buy new boats in the 19 to 23' range are more interested in how much per month the boat will cost as opposed to how MUCH the boat will cost. We know a few couples who went to look at boats "just to see" and ended up coming home with the classic 19 to 23 foot Baythingy not because the price was right, but because the PAYMENTS were right. None of them were remotely concerned with depreciation, maintenance costs, durability, finish, alpha vs bravo, projected trade in value etc. Their mode of thinking was more like "for x number of dollars per month OUR family can be out there on the water too". God bless 'em man, that's what it's all about. And then there are the folks who are more critical, anal, particular, analytical, or whatever you want to call it, who would rather pay more for Sea Ray, Formula, Cobalt etc. I'm not making excuses here for the manufacturers trying to rape us. Just sayin' that the prices are the prices 'cause there's someone out there who is willing to PAY the prices or MAKE the payments. Oh-oh, I'm rambling again :smt021

Summer Fun II said:

Sea Ray is pricing themselves out of the market.

Who on here or anywheres has $53k to $300k to pizz away on a boat ?

I'm not seeing it on CSR.

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I couldn't even look second hand here under $100k for my next one


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Summer Fun II said:

Just got a email trying to sell me a new boat.
$52,995*220 SUNDECK (4.5L)

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Woody said:

Just tell them you sleep in a culvert under cardboard covers and maybe they'll take you off the list.:huh:

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I don't think that will work so well, I'm sure there is a program from the current administration that would then get you one for free. :lol:

I am with most of you and the viewpoints. With the crazy new numbers you could buy 10 years old, throw new engines in and still be way ahead of the game.
For me the restoration process is enjoyable too, as long as it can be used during the process.
It's all relative though, look at new trucks 65K for the equivalent of my 1999 F350 that I bought for 31K.
Like Chris said, it's easier to finance new and I think many look only at the monthly payment.

We'll be sticking with the monthly payment being fuel - :grin:

So im in the market for a boat right now, looking at the 2015 sea ray 280 sundancer, i was at the LI Boat show as well. The price i was given was no where near the signs they had on the boats. It was discounted very nice. So im like do i buy a used boat for 20k less or get something new? I think unless you are going wayyyyy used it makes sense. I said i would never buy a new boat but after looking at what is out there and the delta its not a bad deal. Plus the low interest rates also help. Any opinions?

That's another thing to consider. There are new boat interest rates and used boat interest rates. Plus you also get that piece of mind that it's under a warranty. For some the benefit of not having unexpected expenses in repairs is a comfort. We are considering buying the extended warranty on our purchase for just such comfort but then we are also not buying a brand new boat because I know what depreciation is and I know when I want to exit my ownership of this boat.

estoltz said:

That's another thing to consider. There are new boat interest rates and used boat interest rates. Plus you also get that piece of mind that it's under a warranty. For some the benefit of not having unexpected expenses in repairs is a comfort. We are considering buying the extended warranty on our purchase for just such comfort but then we are also not buying a brand new boat because I know what depreciation is and I know when I want to exit my ownership of this boat.

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So i found a 2013 280 w 20 hours asking 120,000 so figure they would take 90 to 100k if some one offered it to them, the new boat i am looking at was cheaper than there asking price. But if i look at boats w 200plus hours i can get way cheaper but what am i buying? Is the new technology and peace of mind worth the money?

a boat is not an investment so i am not looking at when im selling and for what but the fact i keep hearing dont buy new just sticks in my head.

JimT said:

Be thankful there is a steady supply of people willing to pay new boat prices so we can buy them used at depreciated prices later.

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This is true

You know if I listened to what other people said all the time I would never go near a boat. My favorite is "it's a whole in the middle of water that you throw money into" It completely discounts the value of the enjoyment you get in owning and operating a boat. I imagine that saying was created by the guys that bought a boat used it one season and then let it rot in the water at the slip.

ajcjr said:

So i found a 2013 280 w 20 hours asking 120,000 so figure they would take 90 to 100k if some one offered it to them, the new boat i am looking at was cheaper than there asking price. But if i look at boats w 200plus hours i can get way cheaper but what am i buying? Is the new technology and peace of mind worth the money?

a boat is not an investment so i am not looking at when im selling and for what but the fact i keep hearing dont buy new just sticks in my head.

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I can't imagine someone who's asking $120k would be wiling to take 25% off the asking price. Unless it's grossly overpriced to begin with you are not likely to get a 25% discount on a used boat with 20 hours.

ajcjr said:

So im in the market for a boat right now, looking at the 2015 sea ray 280 sundancer, i was at the LI Boat show as well. The price i was given was no where near the signs they had on the boats. It was discounted very nice. So im like do i buy a used boat for 20k less or get something new? I think unless you are going wayyyyy used it makes sense. I said i would never buy a new boat but after looking at what is out there and the delta its not a bad deal. Plus the low interest rates also help. Any opinions?

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Sea Ray and Marine Max are notorious for having extremely high sticker prices so the "discounts" are not really discounts. Even the discounted prices they show are still are grossly inflated.

I don't agree with the notion that something is worth what another is willing to pay. That doesn't really establish the true market value if you can find a few people who are less sophisticated and overpay.

I'm not saying you are crazy for considering a new boat but there a lot of used boats that are a great value though.

estoltz said:

That's another thing to consider. There are new boat interest rates and used boat interest rates.

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I know rates vary from region to region but at some of the credit unions up here you can get 2.99% for any vehicle -- new or used. For used boats they just look up the Blue Book value to determine the value.

Chris Nowell said:

I think a lot of folks who buy new boats in the 19 to 23' range are more interested in how much per month the boat will cost as opposed to how MUCH the boat will cost. We know a few couples who went to look at boats "just to see" and ended up coming home with the classic 19 to 23 foot Baythingy not because the price was right, but because the PAYMENTS were right.

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This is what's dangerous for people buying used new boats based strictly on the affordability of monthly payments. Most people who purchase boats with this mindset get loans for 10+ years but they only keep the boat for 3-4 years and when they sell they are completely upside down. A loan for $55k for 3 years at 4% interest is over $1600/mo...that is not affordable for most people which is why so many people lease their cars of the equivalent price. Take that same $55k loan for 10 years and now you're down to $550/mo...more affordable but after 4 when they sell it won't be worth what they still owe. I don't care what anyone says going into it... very few people keep their boats for a long time, let alone the term of most boat loans. People here on CSR probably keep their boats a long time but we're enthusiasts...most people who buy boats are not enthusiasts.

estoltz said:

You know if I listened to what other people said all the time I would never go near a boat. My favorite is "it's a whole in the middle of water that you throw money into" It completely discounts the value of the enjoyment you get in owning and operating a boat. I imagine that saying was created by the guys that bought a boat used it one season and then let it rot in the water at the slip.

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Just briefly scanned this thread. The above statement is dead on...you can't put a price on boating. We do it because we love it.

We bought a new boat because I didn't want to inherit someone else's problems. We could afford it, payed cash, and all good. Ordering the boat from the factory, and then watching it travel through the Panama Canal on a ship are memories we will always treasure.Regarding new or used; as with anything in life we all weigh the pros and cons..its a personal decision.