Please Break Up Your Post With Paragraphs...

MonacoMike

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2009
14,721
Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
Boat Info
2000 Cruisers 3870
8.2 Mercs
Engines
85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
260hp Alpha 1
For several months we have had many good, useful, informative posts that ramble on with 15-25 lines of unbroken text. They are almost unreadable. The point of using the paragraph online is to keep points separate and make the page readable to the human eye.


Here is a post from Frank with paragraphs removed. (Frank's original post is below, I altered to make the point). Just try to make any sense out of that???


I posted this a couple of times in the past, but can’t seem to find it. These posts were in threads asking about portables and comparing them to permanent mount marine generators. I just don’t want to argue with folks who don’t seem grasp the total risk in using portables on boats. For me, its about understanding the risk, then making a smart decision, not about arguing ad infinitum on an internet forum. So here are the comments I posted but happened to save. Maybe they will answer your questions: (hope the formatting works) Post #1: about portable generator risks- 1.Carbon Monoxide (CO) is present with all generators, but on portables, the exhaust is discharged at the generator, within an inch or so of the exhaust port on the cylinder. The exhaust system on a portable generator is usually constructed of non-marine alloys that can rust through after brief exposure to a salt water environment.ﰀ There is no engineered system to remove the exhaust from near occupied spaces. When placed on a swim platform, normal air flow can cause a station wagon effect and suck CO into the cockpit or cabin. While the same problem may exist with marine generators, the exhaust is mixed with cooling water and is discharged well away from occupied space at or near the waterline and is usually cleared by wind or sea breezes. 2. Fuel Systems on Honda's and other portables are vented to the atmosphere, not internally as with marine generator installations. That means explosive gasoline vapor is released at the generator, usually through a vent in the fuel fill cap. There is also the risk of a fuel spill if the generator is upset or you encounter rough seas or a large wake when the generator is close to full. Their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled. Portable generators has simple fuel fittings and single ply fuel lines attached with hose clamps, both are substantial risks to fuel leakage if the generator isn’t new and has been around a while. Marine generators have USCG approved double ply braided fuel lines with swaged on end fittings that thread into the generator fuel pump. 3. Ignition Protection – None of the electrical components on portables are ignition protected. Marine generator electrical components are. 4. Shock Hazard Exposure –Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire. Yes, most portables sold today have 3-wire systems. Where the problem lies is that the portable generator is not part of the global ground when you plug in. When you plug into shore power you are also plugging into the ground for the entire local power system. When using a stationary mounted marine generator away from the dock, your boat is its own ground system. Even if the portable has GFI circuitry, they won’t work if there isn’t a continuous ground system. I think real risk here is that while the boat owner may understand grounding, not everyone on the boat….kids, wives, girl friends, helpful (?)guests…..usually don’t. Additionally, most portable generators now use invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded to the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally should not. Post #2: Its not about whose right or wrong, but about understanding the risks. For me this whole discussion is not about who does what, how they try to suffocate themselves or blow themselves up, but it is about our responsibility as knowledgeable boaters to help others, who are not as experienced, learn from what is posted on CSR. Almost anything we do in life has some risk associated with it. Just because my car has 180 on the speedometer doesn't mean I drive that fast. Safe boating is all about fully understanding risk and avoiding all the risky behavior that you can. When we advocate taking unnecessary risks, what kind of example are we setting for those who are new to the sport or who are non-technical and just want take their family boating? However, I do get weary of these discussions turning into World War III when some of the more experienced CSR members take the time to answer an innocent question about using portable generators on boats with irrefutable facts. Because some of you have used portable generators and have not yet blown your ass off or asphyxiated your families does not make me wrong, elitist, stupid or corny, any more than it makes you right. Honestly, I think part of the check and balance on the accuracy of the information contained on CSR is when the pros and cons on subjects like this are discussed. Those of us who feel that portable generators are inappropriate on boats would be negligent if we did not highlight the risks. I am also concerned enough about those risks that I would never agree with their use on a boat because of the potential liability.

Same text with paragraphs.

I posted this a couple of times in the past, but can’t seem to find it. These posts were in threads asking about portables and comparing them to permanent mount marine generators. I just don’t want to argue with folks who don’t seem grasp the total risk in using portables on boats. For me, its about understanding the risk, then making a smart decision, not about arguing ad infinitum on an internet forum. So here are the comments I posted but happened to save. Maybe they will answer your questions: (hope the formatting works)

Post #1: about portable generator risks-

1.Carbon Monoxide (CO) is present with all generators, but on portables, the exhaust is discharged at the generator, within an inch or so of the exhaust port on the cylinder. The exhaust system on a portable generator is usually constructed of non-marine alloys that can rust through after brief exposure to a salt water environment.ﰀ There is no engineered system to remove the exhaust from near occupied spaces. When placed on a swim platform, normal air flow can cause a station wagon effect and suck CO into the cockpit or cabin. While the same problem may exist with marine generators, the exhaust is mixed with cooling water and is discharged well away from occupied space at or near the waterline and is usually cleared by wind or sea breezes.


2. Fuel Systems on Honda's and other portables are vented to the atmosphere, not internally as with marine generator installations. That means explosive gasoline vapor is released at the generator, usually through a vent in the fuel fill cap. There is also the risk of a fuel spill if the generator is upset or you encounter rough seas or a large wake when the generator is close to full.

Their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled.

Portable generators has simple fuel fittings and single ply fuel lines attached with hose clamps, both are substantial risks to fuel leakage if the generator isn’t new and has been around a while. Marine generators have USCG approved double ply braided fuel lines with swaged on end fittings that thread into the generator fuel pump.

3. Ignition Protection – None of the electrical components on portables are ignition protected. Marine generator electrical components are.

4. Shock Hazard Exposure –Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire. Yes, most portables sold today have 3-wire systems. Where the problem lies is that the portable generator is not part of the global ground when you plug in. When you plug into shore power you are also plugging into the ground for the entire local power system. When using a stationary mounted marine generator away from the dock, your boat is its own ground system. Even if the portable has GFI circuitry, they won’t work if there isn’t a continuous ground system. I think real risk here is that while the boat owner may understand grounding, not everyone on the boat….kids, wives, girl friends, helpful (?)guests…..usually don’t.

Additionally, most portable generators now use invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded to the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally should not.





Post #2: Its not about whose right or wrong, but about understanding the risks.

For me this whole discussion is not about who does what, how they try to suffocate themselves or blow themselves up, but it is about our responsibility as knowledgeable boaters to help others, who are not as experienced, learn from what is posted on CSR. Almost anything we do in life has some risk associated with it. Just because my car has 180 on the speedometer doesn't mean I drive that fast. Safe boating is all about fully understanding risk and avoiding all the risky behavior that you can.

When we advocate taking unnecessary risks, what kind of example are we setting for those who are new to the sport or who are non-technical and just want take their family boating?

However, I do get weary of these discussions turning into World War III when some of the more experienced CSR members take the time to answer an innocent question about using portable generators on boats with irrefutable facts. Because some of you have used portable generators and have not yet blown your ass off or asphyxiated your families does not make me wrong, elitist, stupid or corny, any more than it makes you right.

Honestly, I think part of the check and balance on the accuracy of the information contained on CSR is when the pros and cons on subjects like this are discussed. Those of us who feel that portable generators are inappropriate on boats would be negligent if we did not highlight the risks. I am also concerned enough about those risks that I would never agree with their use on a boat because of the potential liability.





MM
 
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Maybe Frank will not post any longer. Will that make you happy? Maybe posts should be graded for content, punctuation, spelling, and grammar. Good Lord!~
 
Maybe Frank will not post any longer. Will that make you happy? Maybe posts should be graded for content, punctuation, spelling, and grammar. Good Lord!~
MM is working on that as you can see, but he won't use red ink because it could damage self esteem.
 
Maybe Frank will not post any longer. Will that make you happy? Maybe posts should be graded for content, punctuation, spelling, and grammar. Good Lord!~

Franks post was altered to make the point, he had paragraph breaks. I used a well written quote instead of calling someone out on a bad post. Have you tried reading some of these long posts with no punctuation or paragraph breaks. We have a system of written communication to make communication clear. The point of the site is communication.

If folks want help here clear communication is a must and it has gotten bad on here in the recent past.

MM

Original post was updated to communicate clearer...
 
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Here I sit minding my own business and .......................


For what it is worth, I've been married to an English teacher for 40+ years. I can write and I don't post goobly-gook, so if any of you are man enough, bring on your red pencils.

Mike is correct, and I agree with him. Simple sentence structure, punctuation and paragraph placement makes the difference between whether I will wade thru a post to eventually get to a question or if I say "I have better things to do" and move on.
 
Hey Mike:

It now appears that you are carrying a dictionary in that "adequate" first aid kit of yours? HAHA just ribbing you a little!! I totally agree, breaking long posts into paragraphs is a must. Of course getting some folks to use commas, periods, and capital letters is a stretch.... Good luck!
 
I can write and I don't post goobly-gook, so if any of you are man enough, bring on your red pencils.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe its "gobbledygook" not "goobly-gook"?

OK - I'm kidding around with you too, Frank!
 
I think that's a good point, Mike. I often read through posts that are just so awkward to read that I think "If this person didn't take the time to at least RE-READ his/her post, why am I spending so much time reading it and trying to understand it". I get it that not everyone is perfect (I'm certainly not) when it comes to spelling and grammar, but it's not that hard to take an extra minute to go back through what you wrote and make sure it makes sense. Didn't we all learn that in 5th grade? Although... don't the misspelled words usually show up with a red underline? And if one isn't sure how to spell something... just Google it - you're already on the computer!

I know to some this might sound like a trivial thing, but if you want people to help you, help us by making your point clear and to the point. Quite honestly, some of the time, it just comes across as "wanting someone else to do the work for them" -- and of course they want the answer immediately. But I suppose that's a gripe for another day.
 
idonthaveanyideawhatheistalkingabouteveryoneonthisforumshouldbeabletounderstandeverythingthatispostednomatterwhatpunctuationisusedgeezlouisedontwehavebetterthingstodothancriticizeourfellowpostersabouttheirlackofgrammaticalskillsiamallaboutproperpunctuationandsentencestructureihaveahardtimereadingsomeofthosepoststhatmikeisreferringtowheretheposterjustrunsonandonandonwithoutaparagraphcommaorperioditreallymakesforhardreadingsomedays
 
Grammar and punctuation:

The difference between knowing your sh!t and knowing you're sh!t.
 
idonthaveanyideawhatheistalkingabouteveryoneonthisforumshouldbeabletounderstandeverythingthatispostednomatterwhatpunctuationisusedgeezlouisedontwehavebetterthingstodothancriticizeourfellowpostersabouttheirlackofgrammaticalskillsiamallaboutproperpunctuationandsentencestructureihaveahardtimereadingsomeofthosepoststhatmikeisreferringtowheretheposterjustrunsonandonandonwithoutaparagraphcommaorperioditreallymakesforhardreadingsomedays
Disturbing that I can read that...
 
I'm with Mike and Frank on this one. I always take the time to proof read something before hitting the button to submit it. Some of the posts on here are difficult to read and difficult to try to eke out what the OP was trying to say. It's hard enough to convey thoughts when you're limited to writing them rather than talking with someone about them, but all of that is made even more difficult when you're trying to wade through a poorly written post.
 
I agree that punctuation & paragraphs help the ability to read a post & ascertain what it is the poster is seeking. If it is too jumbled for me I just move on. It's not my responsibility to assure the poster gets an answer so, if he/she gets no response I would assume they would rewrite it in a better format or move on. Either way it doesn't affect my life so I don't give it much more thought.
I also remember that there is an issue with the latest IE version that seems to block the ability to hit "enter" to start a new paragraph. I know that I had a ton of issues using my new computer for this forum (letters not typing was a big one) and now exclusively view from my iPhone.
FWIW: I could understand Ricks post too!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Todd
 
Beer and Popcorn please...Talk about wanting to pick a fight, geez... Don't read it if it doesn't fit your format...

I get that (understand). And often times that's exactly what I do - no big deal. But... I would like to be able to help people. If Mike's post brings some awareness to this subject and maybe reminds someone to re-read, then everyone's better for it.
 

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