Possible 410 DA Purchase

It all depends on where and how you're going to use your boat. If it's inland and short hops you'll be very happy with the 8.1's and so will any prospective buyers in the future in your area. If you're on the coast and in salt water then the appeal of the boat will plummet. I'm on one of the largest freshwater lakes in Texas and have a good friend who is a Sea Ray salesman. He's says that 90% of the 420's he sold (so I have to assume the same is true for the 410's) where gassers. People here just don't value the long range capability of the diesel's as they do on open water.

Put me on the coast and I wouldn't select my boat again, but with how we boat I'm thrilled with it.
 
Wow Rick. No offense, but wonder the diesel guys make fun of your boat. Those performance numbers are pathetic! You only get 19.1 knots at THIRTY SIX HUNDRED RPM!?!? I'm going more than 24 knots at that point, and my original, high-hour engines are burning much less fuel

Part of the problem is your tankage policy. You're carrying more than 10% of your boats overall weight in those tanks. I prefer to travel as light as conditions and plans allow. Even so, I doubt you could get light enough to get her up to reasonable performance. Something else is amiss.

If the flow scans are correct (and when they tell me I have burned 100 gallons, I have burned a 100 gallons) then the numbers are pretty accurate. We are going to experiment with adding some cup to the props in the spring to try and get the 3700 rpm cruise up to 23 knots, but, the motors are fine the bottom is slick, the trim is correct and proper.

I carry A LOT of stuff with me, from clothing, to spare parts, to tools, to full tanks. You are right about the fuel and water. It is the equivalent of riding around with 15.23 two hundred pound people on board all the time.
 
...Now, before I go on, I have this to say:

Dom, Frank H, GW - all of you all can kiss my lily white a$$



For the record, and I'm sure I speak for Frank H and GW, I will NOT be kissing any male person's lily white arse....!!!


I had to do it over again, after listening to that wise old sage Frank Webster and knowing what I know now, I probably would have bought a diesel boat


That right there is a keeper....

I think we burnt $11,000 worth of fuel last year at .6 mpg. If I had a diesel, I would have gotten 1 mpg and saved 3 grand.

That must be some of that new South math. The difference between 1.0 mpg and .6 mpg is more like 40% less....or $4400....using average fuel burns.....and that assumes gas and diesel are the same price per gallon....which diesel is less on the water....so round it up to $4500 anually. Over a 5 year ownership that's a savings of $22,500....nothing to sneeze at.


The 410DA is a GREAT boat! Speaking solely DA, it's plenty big enough for an average family or a cruising couple who like to entertain. The second head and real aft cabin door are a luxury no matter how you look at it. Tons of cockpit space and just the right amount down below. My CAT powered diesel 410DA has excellent handling manners around the dock and very respectifull performance out on the open water.

I run my motors between 2325 RPMs and 2425 RPMs and make 22-24 knots depending on conditions and loading. I keep very detailed logs and use the old fashioned "AVERAGE" calculation to determine my fuel burn. I consistantly 'average' 1.1 sMPG.
 
Rick,

I believe your data - flowscans etc. I just don't accept it as optimal, or even normal for that matter.

I'm glad to hear that you're willing to tune the propps. I think that will go a long way, but I wouldn't be happy with even 23 knots at 3,700. Would you consider lightening the load too? I use my fuel meters to gauge my remaining fuel, and that has allowed me to travel much lighter than I was comfortable with in the past. Assuming calm water, I can go faster and further.
 
For the record, and I'm sure I speak for Frank H and GW, I will NOT be kissing any male person's lily white arse....!!!

That right there is a keeper....



That must be some of that new South math. The difference between 1.0 mpg and .6 mpg is more like 40% less....or $4400....using average fuel burns.....and that assumes gas and diesel are the same price per gallon....which diesel is less on the water....so round it up to $4500 anually. Over a 5 year ownership that's a savings of $22,500....nothing to sneeze at.


The 410DA is a GREAT boat! Speaking solely DA, it's plenty big enough for an average family or a cruising couple who like to entertain. The second head and real aft cabin door are a luxury no matter how you look at it. Tons of cockpit space and just the right amount down below. My CAT powered diesel 410DA has excellent handling manners around the dock and very respectifull performance out on the open water.

I run my motors between 2325 RPMs and 2425 RPMs and make 22-24 knots depending on conditions and loading. I keep very detailed logs and use the old fashioned "AVERAGE" calculation to determine my fuel burn. I consistantly 'average' 1.1 sMPG.

That does it, I am calling the prop scan guy today! I am only getting 20knots at those RPM's
 
Ken:

A few Q's...

-What tachs do you have? If they are the factory analog tachs, then you are only guessing. Upgrade to the Aetna digitals and you will never look back.

-Assuming you have factory analog tachs, have you ever laser tached your WOT RPMs? You should work the props to see ~2825 RPMs +/-15 RPMs FULLY loaded with a clean bottom. That's how you will know that you are getting the right amount of horsepower out of the motors while at the same time optimally loading them.

-Have the valves been timed by a CAT certified tech according to the service manuals?

Factory props on CAT powered 410DAs are 22 X 23 with a slight cup. I bought a set of identical spares when I got my boat 5 years ago. I tuned them each year for the first three years till I got it right. Right now they are 22 X 22 with a custom cup put in by my prop shop. Props are so important to aquire optimum performance from any setup.
 
Can I make fun of Rick even though I don't have a 410? Rick's burning twice what I do at planing speeds and our boats aren't that different. Dom is right, the correct props make all the difference. Sometimes you just have to throw out the old ones and buy pretty new ones.
 
That must be some of that new South math. The difference between 1.0 mpg and .6 mpg is more like 40% less....or $4400....using average fuel burns.....and that assumes gas and diesel are the same price per gallon....which diesel is less on the water....so round it up to $4500 anually. Over a 5 year ownership that's a savings of $22,500....nothing to sneeze at.

Ahchoo! You still can't buy a single 3126 rebuild for that kind of money.

And I figured that SOME YANKEE who was sitting around the house all day today because they are a State employee and today is a holiday for those folks, would whip out a calculator and question my math. 30%, 40%, whatever... I have to run 300+ miles, one-way to Atlantic City, NJ just to say hi to youse guys. You are so close to AC, you don't even have to unplug your shore power cord to get there.

I appreciate the input on the performance, but, it is not my nature to lug all my stuff in and out of the boat every time I want to go somewhere to lighten the load. Nor is it my nature to run around with little or no fuel because I don't think I am going too far. So, we have to tune the props as she sits and that'll be the best it can do.

Coments are welcome from the diesel boat peanut gallery.

PS. I am on the way to NJ in about 30 minutes. I wish I could stay and visit, maybe spill some beer and food on your boat carpets, but, I am in and out. Maybe next time!
 
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[h=2]Re: Possible 410 DA Purchase[/h]
Can I make fun of Rick even though I don't have a 410? Rick's burning twice what I do at planing speeds and our boats aren't that different. Dom is right, the correct props make all the difference. Sometimes you just have to throw out the old ones and buy pretty new ones​



Go on with it. It's part of the deal.

If a fellow is here and can't take a little ribbing now and again, well, it just ain't the place for you...I have been listening to the Josiey Boys make fun of my gasser ever since I got here and every year at the annual Atlantic City get together. No reason for them to stop now.
 
I appreciate the input on the performance, but, it is not my nature to lug all my stuff in and out of the boat every time I want to go somewhere to lighten the load. Nor is it my nature to run around with little or no fuel because I don't think I am going too far. So, we have to tune the props as she sits and that'll be the best it can do.

Fair enough. Everyone should make their own priorities. Even so, your boat is skewing all kinds of expectations here on CSR, so on behalf of well-performing gas boats, would you mind asking Gary to Photoshop a pic of a your boat with a bunch of Envinrudes on your swim platform so they don't think MY boat is a slow-arse gas guzzler? :grin:
 
If the flow scans are correct (and when they tell me I have burned 100 gallons, I have burned a 100 gallons) then the numbers are pretty accurate. We are going to experiment with adding some cup to the props in the spring to try and get the 3700 rpm cruise up to 23 knots, but, the motors are fine the bottom is slick, the trim is correct and proper.

I carry A LOT of stuff with me, from clothing, to spare parts, to tools, to full tanks. You are right about the fuel and water. It is the equivalent of riding around with 15.23 two hundred pound people on board all the time.

Rick,

I guess at this point the only question is, are you making your rated WOT RPMs with all the gear, fuel and water?
 
Excellent question.

At this very moment, I am about 200 rpm low.

When we went in this Spring we were making 4600, with all the crap on the boat, fully loaded, which is rated WOT for these 370 hp engines.

I have spare wheels in the garage. I have already talked to the prop guy and the yard guy and they will cooperate with a bunch of testing for a reasonable price.

So, we bang these back to spec, then we start cupping them. If I can get 23 knots at anything less than 3900 I can keep up with Speed Racer on a jaunt up or down the Bay. One of Dom's buds at Atlantic City this year thought it could be done.

Prop guy thinks he can get it there.

Here are Sea Ray specs for 2003:

2003 410 spec.jpg
 
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