Kohler 5E Generator Wont Crank - Help

Alex F

Alex F

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2006
9,167
Miami / Ft Lauderdale
Boat Info
2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
Engines
Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
Just few days out of extended warranty and my generator quits. I’ve done some troubleshooting and have preliminary conclusion. But, I was hoping to get some advice before I start spending money on parts.

The problem - is that the unit wont crank. It just makes the “click….click” sound, but nothing else.

Some facts and symptoms:
- all batteries are good
- the generator switch is on in the control panel
- The only part I’ve done different this morning is that I had started the generator from the start button right on the unit. I was changing the zink and needed to run some water through it to clean some old zink stuff. I cranked it couple of times without turning the START button in the control panel in the cabin. I didn’t plan to, but the generator started up on the 2nd or 3rd crank. So, I just let it run for a minute or so. Then, I shut it down by pressing the stop button on the unit.
- So, when it was time to heat up dinner while at anchor all I heard was click-click from the generator. The behavior is the same whether I use control on the unit or in the cabin.

Troubleshooting Steps:
- Got some tools out and started searching. The clicking sound comes from two places: 1-fuel valve and 2-solinoid for the starter.
- My first thought was that starter solenoid has an issue, so I had used screwdriver to force the connection. That made no difference.
- Got the light tester out and started following the power lines. Input from battery has power, but when I cranked the START switch the solenoid didn’t pass the power to the starter. I used the screwdriver again and it didn’t make the difference. This was very strange, so I decided to isolate and disconnect the wire going from solenoid to the starter, just to be sure. When I disconnected the wire form the starter I can see that the solenoid is passing the power to the wire that goes to the starter, but then I had found that the connecting point on the starter is giving me NEGATIVE (-) and makes the tester light go off when I put one end on the starter and the other on the solenoid output. Thus, my conclusion is that there’s some kind of short in my starter that makes PSITIVE (+) connecting point to produce NEGATIVE(-) instead.

So, before I go and order new starter can someone tell me if my conclusion is valid? Is there anything else I could do as a proof of concept?

Thanks,
Alex.
 
Did you check the three fuses on the front of the unit?:huh: I had the 10A fuse blow on my 5E once and it wouldn't crank.
 
Alex
Whenever I've had "clicking" I've always taken a jumper cable and gone directly from the (+) battery terminal to the (+) terminal on the starter. If you bypass everything else and the starter spins, it's a wiring thing. If not you have to keep looking. Only problem here is that you will likely throw a spark doing this. Open every hatch, turn on blowers, use your NOSE & proceed with extreme caution if you even want to try.

Once I found it to be dirty battery connections (that was on an old lawn tractor). Twice (on the boat) it was a bad starter solenoid. The first time this happened (port engine) was on my seatrial. Boat wouldn't start for beans so the mechainc at Wehrlens did the jumper cable trick to diagnose and get her going.

Are you getting any alarms when you try to start from the panel now? Do you normally get alarms when you start the genny (oil pressure, etc?). My gen will not start from the bilge unless the switch on the panel is in the first detent (ie: the alarm sounds). Maybe you blew a sensor that now won't allow it to crank ??

One other thing - have you tried some judicious blows to the starter? That sometimes works.
 
Last edited:
Maybe is missed in in your post I am only on the first cup of coffee. Did you make sure the switch was set to AUTO? I know when I start mine manually in the bilge I have to press the switch back over to "AUTO" for it to start remotely from the cabin.
 
Yes, I forgot to mentioned that after reading the manual I had checked the fuses, but they appear to be fine.

rondds said:
Alex
Whenever I've had "clicking" I've always taken a jumper cable and gone directly from the (+) battery terminal to the (+) terminal on the starter. If you bypass everything else and the starter spins, it's a wiring thing.
Click to expand...

The red wire after the solenoid gives me juice, according to tester light, so this should rule out the jumping procedure.
rondds said:
Are you getting any alarms when you try to start from the panel now? Do you normally get alarms when you start the genny (oil pressure, etc?). My gen will not start from the bilge unless the switch on the panel is in the first detent (ie: the alarm sounds). Maybe you blew a sensor that now won't allow it to crank ?
Click to expand...

No alarms. The simptoms are the same if I try starting from cabin or use switch on the genny itself.

rondds said:
One other thing - have you tried some judicious blows to the starter? That sometimes works.
Click to expand...

what is "judicious blows"?

My biggest puzzle based on my test is that POSITIVE (+) connection on the starter gives me NEGATIVE(-). So, as I mentioned when I use tester light (12v) connecting one end to the red wire tht goes to the starter and the other end to the starter connection point (where that red wire shouls be connected on the starter) the light goes off. Is this normal? I was under the impression that this sopose to be only positive current travelling trhough this connection while negative picks up from the starter's body.

On the other hand I'm also thinking that there's some kind of hidden fuse or senser that's blown. But, if I get juice to the starter and it wont spin that's the first problem I think that needs resolving.
 
Last edited:
post-900sledge.jpg


Judicious blows. Kinda like what the Fonz would do to get the jukebox running at Arnold's. Careful and gentle bangs with a hammer cushioned by a block of wood. Could be stuck on a flat.
 
I was able to use screwdriver to move the pin with teath (don't know the name for it) that moves the flywheel. I was able to move in and out a bit and even spin just a touch. I think this was a bit better effect than banging on the starter, but still no luck.

I also conformed that by connecting tester light to NEGATIVE on solenoid and POSITIVE to the starter I get the light when I hit the START button. So, to me the starter gets juice but just sits dead. I feel like I'm ready to order new starter, but it'll be a bummer if there's a hidden sensor. But, I'm also thinking that despite any sensors if juice gets to the starter it has to turn.
 
Alex

Is the starter solenoid on the starter connected to the bendix drive than engages the starter to the fly wheel or is it remote from the starter. If the starter is not too difficult to remove, I would pull it and then using a set of jumper cables and a 12V battery see if you can get it to spin by connecting the negative clamp to the body and the positive clamp to the input wire connection. If it run you know the starter is probably OK and you have a wiring issue. I once had a stater on a 351 Ford V8 that was hooked to a OMC Cobra drive quit working like this. I pulled the starter and tested it and it ran fine. Turns out corrosion between the starter housing and the engine flywheel housing had insulated the ground connection.
 
Any chance that your cylinders are full of water? You said you were flushing out the zinc material. Maybe your exhaust back siphoned and filled the cylinders?

Just a thought.
 
It's normal to see ground though an electrical device. An electric motor is just a coil of wire connected between positive and negative. If you don't connect positive, then the positive terminal is at the same potential as ground, since that's what is connected.

Usually there is a solenoid mounted on the starter with a terminal connected to the battery and another terminal connected to the starter motor windings. Putting +12 with a jumper cable to that second connector should cause the motor to spin. Only touch the wire briefly. You don't want the unloaded starter motor to overspeed and damage itself.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Alex F said:
Yes, I forgot to mentioned that after reading the manual I had checked the fuses, but they appear to be fine.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you meant by "appear to be fine". Fuses are either good or bad. Are you saying you performed a continuity check on the fuses? These are ceramic fuses and looking at them tells you zip. I to had a click sound as I attempted to start my 5E when my 10A fuse was blown.
 
Alex, I second (I mean "third") what Frank said. It only takes a second and could shed some light on the subject.

Whenever I've had "clicking" I've always taken a jumper cable and gone directly from the (+) battery terminal to the (+) terminal on the starter. If you bypass everything else and the starter spins, it's a wiring thing. If not you have to keep looking. Only problem here is that you will likely throw a spark doing this. Open every hatch, turn on blowers, use your NOSE & proceed with extreme caution if you even want to try.
Click to expand...
 
I had double checked all 3 fuses and they're fine. I spoke with Jon and explained him my latest tests results. I'm down to only two options, verify that grounding is good and remove the starter to see if it's operating while hot wired.

My boat is scheduled for some pending repairs at local MM, so I asked them to take a look at it.

BTW, I'm noticing that we have a big time lack of service on generators. Even MM uses 3rd party.
 
Just because you have the juice making it to the starter does not mean that you have enough juice. Check connections. Bypass them with cables to confirm (well vented, as described).
 
Hampton said:
Just because you have the juice making it to the starter does not mean that you have enough juice. Check connections. Bypass them with cables to confirm (well vented, as described).
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: I agree with John. Had same problem, hooked a small trickle charger to generator battery over night. Bingo! Problem solved.
 
I ruled out "dead battery", b/c as far as I know I don't have dedicated battery for generator. The mains start right up. I would expect port engine to show some signs if the battery was low. I was told, while back, that on 320 port battery 1 is for genny and port engine. The boat is at MM, so I'll have to see what they say now.
 
Hi Alex

We only brought one car down this weekend, and my wife took it to the beach on Saturday. And it was her car, not the "portable garage" full of tools. If MM doesn't fix it, give a call and I'll ride over and take a look with you.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Thanks a lot Frank. That's what friends are for!!!
 
Watch out Alex, he's gonna charge you ;-)
Just messin' witcha Frank. That really is very nice of you (or you have endless free time, like some other people out there).
 
Thanks to great advice from the know it all mechanic on my right I was able to successfully change the zink on the genny. Wait a minute, this was the last time genny worked, I got to get my little mechanic back in there to fix the genny problem.

July_2009425.jpg
 
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