Thoughts on using Honda generator

People. Let's be civil.

I think the fuel system issue is probably related to where you put the generator when you are not using it. Is it sitting on deck, or do you put it in the cabin? The safety implications of those two positions would be quite different.

If you commonly get CO alarms in the cabin when running the Genny, I wonder if there is another issue. . .like exhast going into the bilge. . Does the problem still manifest if the blowers are running while the Genny is running?

Having a Cuddy with no AC and no Genny, my boat does not have factory CO detectors. I will be buying them this year. . .because I believe the engines would represent a possible hazard due to the station wagon effect, particularly when running at idle speed or maneuvering in a marina. We hardly ever have people in the cabin when running due to claustraphobia (SIC) issues. .and we hardly ever have canvas up. . .but I don't want to limit myself.

This thread, as I said before, emphasizes the poor ventilation of boat cabins, which therefore requires extra care.
 
BS flag is pulled and thrown. I don't see anywhere what type of generator caused the deaths. Houseboats are notorious for not correctly exhausting gennie fumes. The problem is so bad, the industry has developed a new style muffler that dissapates the CO several feet above the deck.

jitts3 said:
http://www.catamarantest.com/Resources/view_news.aspx?NewsID=324
this is the URL to the above link.


carbon.jpg




July 10th twenty-one people on houseboats for a family gathering at Lake Powell were treated for carbon-monoxide poisoning, just a few days after a 7-year-old girl drowned when she was overcome by carbon monoxide fumes, officials said. The odorless gas came from the exhaust from generators that were used to run air conditioners, said Marianne Karraker, a spokeswoman for Glen Canyon National Recreation Area on the Utah-Arizona border.​


In addition to the 21 people from Utah, Texas and Washington who were treated July 10, three others had been treated in a separate but similar incident earlier that week, and a child, Megan Evans, of Flagstaff, Ariz., died after she and a friend were exposed to fumes while swimming near boats along the Lake Powell shore. The other child survived. "It's hot out there, but I would tell people to turn off those generators and open all the windows," Karraker said. "It's playing with fire to have the generators running like that." A Coast Guard advisory on boating safety warns that boat operators should turn off "gasoline-powered generators with transom exhaust ports when the swim platform on the stern is in use," because of the potential for carbon monoxide to build up​



Just incase of others accusing me of making this up, check the link.
I'd be more worried about the exhaust. Seems to more likely cause of death. CO.
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dpmulvey said:
BS flag is pulled and thrown. I don't see anywhere what type of generator caused the deaths. Houseboats are notorious for not correctly exhausting gennie fumes. The problem is so bad, the industry has developed a new style muffler that dissapates the CO several feet above the deck.
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To what end? The vapor density of C/O is 1. This means it has the same vapor desnity as air consequently it does not rise or fall. Just wondering.
 
fc3 said:
It's my post and my data is correct based upon the symptom of the reversed polarity lamp being illuminated. That your light does not illuminate sheds no light on the other poster's problem. Post a logical refutation explaining the reason for his indication or shut up.
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Frank I was nice and polite to you and you come back and tell me to shut up.
I post fact and a quote by you and you tell me to shut up.
I tell you my gas tanks are vented to the atmosphere and you tell me to shut up.
I thought for the past 6 months this was a friendly place, Frank you did prove me wrong.

Ken
 
Maybe so, but the way I look at this, too each his own. I don't like the idea of dealng with somthing I cant see smell or know anything about until It sickens me. And even then may still not recognise it. Some people may get ill and think they are seasick. Then they lay down and don't wake up. You want to call my last post BS, fine, I could care less. I thank those who posted all this debate for educating me on this. I never planned on a genny on my boat and prefer installing an inverter and dual deep cycle batteries. As for the ones who insist on running one, take many precautions. And hope that if CO ever makes you sick, pray you realize it in time, after all when you are sick, you may not think straight. As I said, too each his own.
 
Engine exhaust is a hazard because of the CO. The primary components of exhaust are CO2 and H2O. There are other trace exhaust components, ppm unburnt hydrocarbons, and PPM other stuff. The CO is the hazardous component. CO itself is odorless. . .but the other stuff is not.

And I think the quoted text does not distinguish portable generators from built in gas powered Gennies. . .not when they are refering to transom exhausts.
 
dpvandy01 said:
To what end? The vapor density of C/O is 1. This means it has the same vapor desnity as air consequently it does not rise or fall. Just wondering.
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Correct, CO at ambient temperature has nominally the same density as air. The exhaust from a motor (like a generator) would normally be hot, and thus would tend to initially rise like hot air. Once it cools to ambient temperature, it would stop rising and would not descend.

Putting this stuff into the air at a height sounds much smarter than putting out a transom.
 
comsnark said:
Correct, CO at ambient temperature has nominally the same density as air. The exhaust from a motor (like a generator) would normally be hot, and thus would tend to initially rise like hot air. Once it cools to ambient temperature, it would stop rising and would not descend.

Putting this stuff into the air at a height sounds much smarter than putting out a transom.
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Good point
 
comsnark said:
Engine exhaust is a hazard because of the CO. The primary components of exhaust are CO2 and H2O. There are other trace exhaust components, ppm unburnt hydrocarbons, and PPM other stuff. The CO is the hazardous component. CO itself is odorless. . .but the other stuff is not.

And I think the quoted text does not distinguish portable generators from built in gas powered Gennies. . .not when they are refering to transom exhausts.
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I can't remember where I read this but somebody wrote somewhere online, not a forum, on why not to swim near the stern emediatly after shutting down. If the person takes a breath from under the swim platform they can get sick and or die from 1 full breath. Now I don't know how true that is but I can account from this.
I Have a truck I used to run on englishtown dragstrip. One day I installed headers and needed to take it to the exhaust shop for custom exhaust. Now then I could barely afford the job and sure as hell not gonna pay for a tow to the shop. So I drove it. With the windows down, open headers that blasted out at the beginning of the front of the cab. LOUD. Buy the time I got there I was sick. It stunk bad but after a while I got used to it. I was also trying to stay off the throttle and not atteact the cops. I did get lost and had to ditch the truck at a mall while searched for it in my friends car. It was late at night. I started to feel better after a few in the car. I had gotten stupid on the fumes trying to find the place. I knew where it was, just not thinking clear. Once I got my head right and back to the truck. Local cops back and fourth looking for a "Muscle Car". I hustled to the exhaust shop. Just as a shut her off and locked her up, a cop showed up. I got asked "what are you doin?" "Droping my truck off, it needs exhaust work."

Point is, if you are unfortunate enough to get sick, you may not be well enough to realize why. I got lost where I shoukd not have. And most of the exhaust was gong under the truck as I drove.

Do what you want, but think first.
 
comsnark said:
Correct, CO at ambient temperature has nominally the same density as air. The exhaust from a motor (like a generator) would normally be hot, and thus would tend to initially rise like hot air. Once it cools to ambient temperature, it would stop rising and would not descend.

Putting this stuff into the air at a height sounds much smarter than putting out a transom.
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May be, but then you have wind pushing the stuff around. Any may push it into your boat. Its not always dead calm. You can't predict where the fumes may go.
 
fc3 said:
dpmulvey said:
Plug adapter for me. Other than the red reversed polarity light (not an issue if you follow the electric flow (or lack thereof!)) it was not an issue.
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Actually, that's an interesting issue that I forgot, having not thought about these thing for several years. These things use inverters. Now an inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have potential between neutral and ground. With ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this implies a shock hazard may exist that normally should not. Since I don't have one of these generators, all users should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.

Best regards,
Frank
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Iprof said:
Frank I was nice and polite to you and you come back and tell me to shut up.
I post fact and a quote by you and you tell me to shut up.
I tell you my gas tanks are vented to the atmosphere and you tell me to shut up.
I thought for the past 6 months this was a friendly place, Frank you did prove me wrong.

Ken
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The post that I quoted seem to indicate that the reverse polarity light was illuminated. My response clearly says that anytime the reverse polarity light is illuminated, a problem exists. This problem potentially can be result in a fatality. This type of problem can exist because certain types of inverters drive both neutral and ground. My suggestion that when the light is on that he prove out that the system is actually safe by using a good DVM is the correct and prudent response. I fail to see how you twice claim that this is incorrect without providing data to support your position. I believe that the colloquialism is "put up or shut up." Pick one. I care not which.

BTW, it is entirely possible that in a forum of 5,708 members, that three or more might have the same first name of Frank. Not saying just because you ignore some details that that might be indicative that you tend to ignore all details, but one might get that idea...
 
fc3 said:
The post that I quoted seem to indicate that the reverse polarity light was illuminated. My response clearly says that anytime the reverse polarity light is illuminated, a problem exists. This problem potentially can be result in a fatality. This type of problem can exist because certain types of inverters drive both neutral and ground. My suggestion that when the light is on that he prove out that the system is actually safe by using a good DVM is the correct and prudent response. I fail to see how you twice claim that this is incorrect without providing data to support your position. I believe that the colloquialism is "put up or shut up." Pick one. I care not which.

BTW, it is entirely possible that in a forum of 5,708 members, that three or more might have the same first name of Frank. Not saying just because you ignore some details that that might be indicative that you tend to ignore all details, but one might get that idea...
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Well you did ask. We have been talking about the Honda, the original post was asking about a Honda and every one of my replies has been about the Honda. While a Honda does use inverter technology the fail safes built into the generator shuts the system down if the inverter fails or is not working correctly. Applying power to the neutral will shut the power off instantly. I don't expect an apology but I would expect you to abide by the rules of this form and threat others with respect.
What I have had happen on my boat was using a an extension cord at a marina that had only 15 amp service the polarity light came on. It was caused by a faulty ground on the extension code. My DVOM found the problem, a faulty ground on a extension cord used on a Honda would trip the generator and power would be lost.

Ken
 
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OK, this is from the other Frank...........although it really doesn't make any difference since the 2 Franks in this discussion are of the same mind, but why is it that these discussions always end up in the same place? Experienced boaters who are safety conscious are called wrong and argumentitive because we try to point out the risks of portable generators on boats whne someone asks for opinions.

Just because you have ignored the obvious risks and survived using your Honda generator on your boat doesn't make us wrong, it just makes you lucky......so far.
 
fwebster said:
OK, this is from the other Frank...........although it really doesn't make any difference since the 2 Franks in this discussion are of the same mind, but why is it that these discussions always end up in the same place? Experienced boaters who are safety conscious are called wrong and argumentitive because we try to point out the risks of portable generators on boats whne someone asks for opinions.

Just because you have ignored the obvious risks and survived using your Honda generator on your boat doesn't make us wrong, it just makes you lucky......so far.
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Trouble is that you can only be wrong once. The ones who were wrong can't get on the forum and say "I was wrong."

But I'll tell you, not only is this informative, but entertaining.
 
fwebster said:
OK, this is from the other Frank...........although it really doesn't make any difference since the 2 Franks in this discussion are of the same mind, but why is it that these discussions always end up in the same place? Experienced boaters who are safety conscious are called wrong and argumentitive because we try to point out the risks of portable generators on boats whne someone asks for opinions.

Just because you have ignored the obvious risks and survived using your Honda generator on your boat doesn't make us wrong, it just makes you lucky......so far.
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Sorry Frank if you thought any of my posts were directed at you they were not but this one is. While I do consider myself to be lucky to be boating for over 40 years I do not ignore any hazards or put myself or any of my family or guests at risks. I also never said you were wrong, the statements made about how a Honda works is wrong but you did not make that statement. Hope that this clears up a few of the misunderstandings.

Ken
 
I for one really appreciate threads that gain this much momentum. For me, it forces me to rethink my on board practices and protocols and that is always a good thing.

On that note, we are first time genny owners. The sales rep strongly suggested we run our factory installed Koehler when under way. He said it would keep the batteries charged and that it is good for the genny to run under load. We don’t run it every time we go out, but I would say we are very consistent in firing it up once we are clear of the dock and we run it to cool the cabin, let the kids play video games etc. Once we drop the hook, we turn it off- we find the noise unacceptable.

The direct question I have here is should I be concerned about CO if the genny is running while we are moving? I assume the “station wagon” effect could be present under certain speeds and wind conditions, especially with a camper top. We keep the cabin door shut at all times when under way as per manufacturer instructions, but lets be honest, that door is a far cry from being airtight.

We normally cruise at very low speeds, low rpms and of course we run the bilge blower the entire time.
 
Sure, the "station wagon" effect can occur from genset exhaust just like your engines' exhaust. If the SW effect occurs when running, steps need to be taken to eliminate it since CO poisoning can occur on deck as well. Open windhsield side vents (if equipped) and open/remove canvas as necessary to elminate or minimize backdrafting.
Keeping the cabin door open could actually help eliminate the SW effect PROVIDED forward windows and hatches are opened to facilitate fresh airflow through the cabin and then the cockpit.

It makes me wonder about Helm A/C on express boats. The drop curtain most definitely can cause the SW effect in the cockpit...
 
spimik said:
....The direct question I have here is should I be concerned about CO if the genny is running while we are moving? I assume the “station wagon” effect could be present under certain speeds and wind conditions, especially with a camper top. We keep the cabin door shut at all times when under way as per manufacturer instructions, but lets be honest, that door is a far cry from being airtight.

We normally cruise at very low speeds, low rpms and of course we run the bilge blower the entire time.
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I think that Comsnark's assertion in an earlier post that (paraphrased here) if the cabin was to be better ventilated, then the CO risk could be greatly reduced, if not eliminated. I agree. And that said, I would think that you would be better off NOT closing the cabin door. In fact, I would think you would want to open the forward hatch and the cabin door and the windshield vent and the rear canvas to move air througout while you are moving.
 
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