Big 3 Auto Bailout?

Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 26.2%
  • No

    Votes: 124 73.8%

  • Total voters
    168
Just as an update, the negotiations for the above changes to the job bank workers has broken down.

As a result, the job bank workers are participating in a ‘worker slow down.’

This is proving to be a real challenge to the job bank supervisors.

Since the job bank workers do not do anything they have no way to determine which job bank workers are actually not working and which job bank workers are just sitting there.
 
"Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?"

113 Yes
44 No

You think the Bush Administration will take a look at this thread before they decide? ;-)
 
"Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?"

113 Yes
44 No

You think the Bush Administration will take a look at this thread before they decide? ;-)

Did I miss something??? I thought it was the other way around.

Looks Like Tim bet me to it. (Grin)
 
OR

44 Yes
113 NO

No hidden message here, I misquoted, sorry folks and thanks for the correction.

I was on the phone with the mechanic who told me it was OK to use a marine approved AC outlet in our engine compartment, so I was not focusing 100% as I typed.
 
No hidden message here, I misquoted, sorry folks and thanks for the correction.

I was on the phone with the mechanic who told me it was OK to use a marine approved AC outlet in our engine compartment, so I was not focusing 100% as I typed.
Greg quit worming about that darn AC outlet in our engine compartment and consecrate:smt038 on those WATER SPOTS on your wife boat.
 
Just as an update, the negotiations for the above changes to the job bank workers has broken down.

As a result, the job bank workers are participating in a ‘worker slow down.’

This is proving to be a real challenge to the job bank supervisors.

Since the job bank workers do not do anything they have no way to determine which job bank workers are actually not working and which job bank workers are just sitting there.

Ah, but is it really a 'worker slow down.' I suspect the problem lies with the job bank supervisors. They obviously didn't give proper training to the job bank workers and are covering their a$$ by calling it a 'worker slow down.'
 
Ah, but is it really a 'worker slow down.' I suspect the problem lies with the job bank supervisors. They obviously didn't give proper training to the job bank workers and are covering their a$$ by calling it a 'worker slow down.'

How do you slow down card games? Turn the cards over more slowly?
 
No hidden message here, I misquoted, sorry folks and thanks for the correction.

I was on the phone with the mechanic who told me it was OK to use a marine approved AC outlet in our engine compartment, so I was not focusing 100% as I typed.

Can you please post a vendor who makes a "marine approved AC outlet" for your engine compartment? I assume by "marine approved" it is ignition protected such that no plug will cause a spark... I've never seen or heard of one... but I'm all ears.
 
Can you please post a vendor who makes a "marine approved AC outlet" for your engine compartment? I assume by "marine approved" it is ignition protected such that no plug will cause a spark... I've never seen or heard of one... but I'm all ears.

I would love to help you out here, but I did not purchase it so I have no idea where it came from. I recall them stating it was approved for marine/water use and they did it all the time.

I can PM you the name of the marine service folks that did the install if you like.
 
Can you take a picture of it? I'm very curious....

Sure, it's gonna be a while before we get to the boat again though.

Per your feedback on the subject a while ago I did call them. They said I could install a junction box (think that is the right word) if I was concerned with the outlet. They said they do both all the time for bilge heaters.
 
Sure, it's gonna be a while before we get to the boat again though.

Per your feedback on the subject a while ago I did call them. They said I could install a junction box (think that is the right word) if I was concerned with the outlet. They said they do both all the time for bilge heaters.

Here's an excerpt from the ABYC E11 Guidelines:

E-11
7/03

11.5.1.3. IGNITION PROTECTION
11.5.1.3.1. Potential electrical sources of
ignition located in spaces containing gasoline powered
machinery, or gasoline fuel tank(s), or joint fitting(s),
or other connection(s) between components of a
gasoline system, shall be ignition protected, unless the
component is isolated from a gasoline fuel source as
described in E-11.5.1.3.3 (See Figure 1, Figure 2,
Figure 3, Figure 4, Figure 5, Figure 6, Figure 7, and
Figure 8.)
EXCEPTION: 1. Boats using diesel fuel as the only
fuel source.
They also define ignition protection as:

Ignition protection - The design and construction of a device such that under design operating conditions:
a. it will not ignite a flammable hydrocarbon mixture surrounding the device when an ignition source causes
an internal explosion, or
b. it is incapable of releasing sufficient electrical or thermal energy to ignite a hydrocarbon mixture, or
c. the source of ignition is hermetically sealed.
NOTES: 1. A flammable hydrocarbon mixture is a
mixture of gasoline and air, CNG and air, or
propane (LPG) and air between the lower explosive
limit (LEL) and upper explosive limit (UEL).
.... stuff deleted
3. It is intended that the protection provided be
generally equivalent to that of wiring permitted by this standard wherein a definite short or break would be necessary to produce an open spark.
.... stuff deleted

An AC plug is going to violate #3 above.... unless it is some special plug that I've never heard about.

In trying to locate this "ignition protected AC plug", I did stumble across several marine surveys and surveyor companies that listed under "Immediate Attention Required" was to remove AC outlets in a bilge with gas engines...

So I don't understand how your mechanic says it's "ok"...
 
Can you please post a vendor who makes a "marine approved AC outlet" for your engine compartment? I assume by "marine approved" it is ignition protected such that no plug will cause a spark... I've never seen or heard of one... but I'm all ears.

I cannot imagine any sort of male/female type connector that could be made "spark proof" with the circuit energized.

when I bought my boat there was a regular everyday Home Depot 50 cent 2 gang box mounted. It was powered off of the AC junction box. so it would only work when the AC was running anyway my mechanic told me as there is some sort of relay that allows power to that AC junction.

Anyway, that box does not exist in my boat anymore. It scared the hell out of me just knowing it was there.
 
I cannot imagine any sort of male/female type connector that could be made "spark proof" with the circuit energized.

I guess you could call it a "spark plug"... get it? "spark"... "plug"...

Ha ha ha ha
 
Not sure I ever made a statement that the outlet being spark proof. Looked at the invoice, here is the box:

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/section-v-datasheet.asp?FAM=Marine&PN=HBL60CM83

and here is the receptacle:

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Marinco_Receptacles-MARINCO_5262CRR_15_AMP_RECEPTACLE.html

So, a loud and clear message has been delivered, don't use this box in the engine compartment. So, what should I replace it with and is this a job I can do or should I turn it over to the shop? There is a breaker at the panel for this outlet.
 
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