Seacocks

If you knuckleheads didn't try to make a joke out of every single thread on CSR maybe members who want serious answers could get them on the regular forum. If you want to use CSR for your amusement, try using the Holding Tank.

Now, bmac got the infomation he needed from me........its not secret and its not brain surgery, but I'm not going to type that stuff twice.
 
While winterizing a few weeks ago, I broke off a handle on a seacock. They were pretty stiff, I try to move them when I can. I was surprised to see they are made of Brass or Bronze, very soft. I bought some stainless steel bolts 5/16 by 5 " long, cut the heads off, slipped on the yellow rubber handle covers. Put them in place of the others. They work well, now I can put a little beef into opening and closing them. Maybe now they will free up a bit.
 
I hope you don't damage the sensitive stuff inside. They are probably designed with the handle as the weakest link. Just a word of caution.
 
I don't think we are all discussing the same type of seacock. For that reason, it is important that you know which type you have before you go trying to put a huge bolt thru your ball valve.

I said I wasn't going to do it, but to be sure that we don't damage someone's boat with incomplete instructions, here is the method I use for clearing and lubricating a BRONZE BALL TYPE seacock.......:


The seacocks Sea Ray uses now are marine grade ball valves with vitron,nitrile, or some tough rubber substitute. They have Teflon wipers or pre-seals in them as well. All this soft stuff rubs on a polished stainless steel ball with a shaft thru it. The yellow handle you grab is attached to the shaft thru an oblong hole with flats on 2 sides in the handle and a nut on the outside.

When these valves are new, they are stiff and should be because the seals and wipers are making contact on both sides or 360 degrees of the ball. It takes very little marine growth to stick a seacock. Exercising them regularly is important.

A trick I learned is that Sea Ray uses a valve on all boats that is designed to northern climates. They have a small threaded plug on the side of the valve body down where the guts or ball is. Remove that plug and insert a grease fitting. I bought stainless steel fittings and just leave mine in place all the time. I think the thread is 1/4" X 20 NF, but you might remove one plug (don't lose it!) and take it to a parts store to match it. You can use any grease fitting that will fit for now, but you should (and probably have to) order stainless ones.

Unsticking the seacocks isn't a matter of throwing the handle with enough force to make it move. It is instead, a matter of fractions of an inch. Put the grease fittings in, first, give then a shot of grease then try to move the handle very slightly. Use a small cheater like a 12" Crescent wrench opened the width of the handle and placed on the end of it. Get the handle to move 1/4" then go back to open, then move it 3/8" and back to open, then go back to 3/8" and stop, Give it another shot of grease and open the valve again, give it another shot of grease and move it 1/2", back to open, move it 5/8", grease, then open all the way and grease it again..........get the picture?

Sometimes to get the valve started to move, you might put the cheater on the handle and add some pressure then tap the handle with a sharp blow with a hammer........a sharp blow, not a hard one. This is a job where subtlety not brute force is needed. Keep the valve movements slow and simple, just move it a lot and they will free up. Don't be afraid to over grease the sea cocks, the excess will pass on thru the cooling system with no problem.

The same approach works for all the seacocks....be careful with the 3/4" ones on your A/C and generator...they are smaller and more fragile.

If for some reason this method doesn't work, don't try anything stronger or with more force until the boat is hauled out for some reason. If you break a seacock you will have to haul the boat to fix it, and when they break, the casting usually breaks vertically down to the floor of the boat so the haul out is going to be an emergency. Don't let this alarm you.....I have never been unable to open a stuck valve using this method.

The grease I use is Mercruiser anti corrosion lubricant or their all purpose grease with numbers in the name.....4-2-C, I think.

Also, once you get them freed up, open and close each week or every time you use the boat and add grease 2-3 times a year.






The seacocks used on older boats like the '88 340DA is a TAPERED PLUG seacock with a bronze body. Those can be freed up by loosening the flange bolts slightly......1/4 to 1/2 turn.....then tapping on the side opposite the handle to drive the tapered plug toward the large side which loosens it. It will leak, but you should be able to free it up, then retighten the 2 flange bolts. You cannot lubricate these valves with the boat in the water. Once the boat is hauled, you must disassemble the valve to clean and lubricate it. To do so, remove the flange bolts and clamp ring and drive the plug out of the valve body. Once it is removed, you can clean it and the tapered bore it came out of. Then coat the rubber plug with silicone lubricant (go to a swimming pool store and buy a tube) liberally. Also coat the inside of the bronze body with silicone, then reassemble the seacock.

<YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITH YOUR BOAT IN THE WATER>

Finally, if it takes a wrench to operate your seacocks, stop now before you damage or break them. Get the boat hauled and either take them apart and clean/lubricate them or replace them.
 
Frank,

Any suggestions for the holding tank discharge? I'm required to have it zip-tied closed. I can't imagine cutting it loose to exercise it all that often. Better to just leave it closed forever? I use the pump out and can't imagine ever discharging overboard...

Jim
 
If you ever plan to use the overboard discharge, then open and close the valve every month. How expensive are zip ties?

The cost of replacing the seacock is substantially higher than that of a pack of plastic ties.
 
Jim240 said:
Frank,

Any suggestions for the holding tank discharge? I'm required to have it zip-tied closed. I can't imagine cutting it loose to exercise it all that often. Better to just leave it closed forever? I use the pump out and can't imagine ever discharging overboard...

Jim
Click to expand...

Better check local regs. The times I've seen the waste seacock required to be tied shut a USCG or NSPS seal/zip tie had to be used. Having it tie wrapped with a plain one wouldn't pass muster.

I was inspected for it one time.
 
Frank,

Thank you for the valuable information. The Taper Type is exactly what I have. When I broke the handle off, I don't think I loosened the T handle on the opposite side of the valve enough which locks the valve. I am dry docked, went today and checked the seacocks. I really had to loosen the T handles a lot then they turned easy. I could barely get at them to turn them. I can't see how to tap them out and lubricate them. They are like against a stringer. The only way I can see to open them is to completely remove them from the hull, then reinstall and reseal. I think if they were installed facing the proper direction, I would be able to tap them out. On this type of valve, what harm could I do leaving the SS Handles to operate them, naturally without forcing them? Or should I put brass or bronze handles back on? Upgrade? Please advise!
 
Its been a long time since I worked on one of those. Could you post a photo of one of your valves? I couldn't find enough detail in the Sea Ray parts list to be descriptive.
 
Frank,

These are old pic's I had. The one with 2 seacocks is Stbd. I could probably get to that one, the other is the nightmare Port. You could only see the tip of the handle, it opens and closes bow to strern so the t handle is almost against the stringer. Maybe I'm wrong, not too sure. Hope these are helpful.
 
Frank,


Good info...thanks. I'm going to take a look at installing the grease fittings.
 
Frank,

Many thanks for taking the time to provide your write p. I agree all to often comments need to be put in the holding tank rather than provide useless comments that benefit no one. I'm sorry I had to take up space to stay this but your assistance and information was and is of benefit and I appreciate your taking the time to post.

I'm sure my post speaks of appreciation for many whom sit back and read regularly.
 
Hampton said:
I hope you don't damage the sensitive stuff inside. They are probably designed with the handle as the weakest link. Just a word of caution.
Click to expand...

John,
I never thought of that, makes sense. I don't think I loosened the T handle enough, tried it again today, loosened up turned easier.
My intention with the ss handle, in case of an emergency flooding I did not want the handle to come off in my hand, at least I could get the valve closed. I thought it was just a simple Ball Valve. Frank has enlightened me, he knows what he's talking about. I deffinately have to lubricate them, he's taking a look at some Pic's I posted.
Thank you for your reply.
 
Don,

Take a look at the photo on the left..........

The yellow handle is on the reachable side of both valves. Directly behind the yellow handle is a circular plate with 2 ears on it. Two small bolts hold the plate on the valve body. The T handle is on the back side of the valve body. The tapered portion of the valve is a rubber cylinder with a hole thru the center for the water to pass thru. The T handle on the back is just a bolt that tightens against a brass plate that causes the rubber postion of the valve to swell and seal off leaks....to close the sea cock, you must loosen that T handle. To clean an service the valves.......Boat has to be out of the water!........loosen the T handle, then remove the 2 bolts on the opposite side, remove the circular plate with the ears on it, grab the yellow handle and gently slide the valve core out the same side the yellow handle is on. From there you can clean it and the valve body, grease it and reassemble it.

Its a very easy job, once you see how the valve goes together. Now , go get dirty.
 
Frank,

Thank you for the time you took to answer my questions, first chance I have this week, I'll have them apart. My wife MaryAnn (who the boat is named after) tells me I have to loose a few pounds to be able to fit down there, LOL.....I consider it the Hell Hole!! I want to do it right.
I will let you know of my progress.
 
fwebster said:
I don't think we are all discussing the same type of seacock. For that reason, it is important that you know which type you have before you go trying to put a huge bolt thru your ball valve.

I said I wasn't going to do it, but to be sure that we don't damage someone's boat with incomplete instructions, here is the method I use for clearing and lubricating a BRONZE BALL TYPE seacock.......:


The seacocks Sea Ray uses now are marine grade ball valves with vitron,nitrile, or some tough rubber substitute. They have Teflon wipers or pre-seals in them as well. All this soft stuff rubs on a polished stainless steel ball with a shaft thru it. The yellow handle you grab is attached to the shaft thru an oblong hole with flats on 2 sides in the handle and a nut on the outside.

When these valves are new, they are stiff and should be because the seals and wipers are making contact on both sides or 360 degrees of the ball. It takes very little marine growth to stick a seacock. Exercising them regularly is important.

A trick I learned is that Sea Ray uses a valve on all boats that is designed to northern climates. They have a small threaded plug on the side of the valve body down where the guts or ball is. Remove that plug and insert a grease fitting. I bought stainless steel fittings and just leave mine in place all the time. I think the thread is 1/4" X 20 NF, but you might remove one plug (don't lose it!) and take it to a parts store to match it. You can use any grease fitting that will fit for now, but you should (and probably have to) order stainless ones.

Unsticking the seacocks isn't a matter of throwing the handle with enough force to make it move. It is instead, a matter of fractions of an inch. Put the grease fittings in, first, give then a shot of grease then try to move the handle very slightly. Use a small cheater like a 12" Crescent wrench opened the width of the handle and placed on the end of it. Get the handle to move 1/4" then go back to open, then move it 3/8" and back to open, then go back to 3/8" and stop, Give it another shot of grease and open the valve again, give it another shot of grease and move it 1/2", back to open, move it 5/8", grease, then open all the way and grease it again..........get the picture?

Sometimes to get the valve started to move, you might put the cheater on the handle and add some pressure then tap the handle with a sharp blow with a hammer........a sharp blow, not a hard one. This is a job where subtlety not brute force is needed. Keep the valve movements slow and simple, just move it a lot and they will free up. Don't be afraid to over grease the sea cocks, the excess will pass on thru the cooling system with no problem.

The same approach works for all the seacocks....be careful with the 3/4" ones on your A/C and generator...they are smaller and more fragile.

If for some reason this method doesn't work, don't try anything stronger or with more force until the boat is hauled out for some reason. If you break a seacock you will have to haul the boat to fix it, and when they break, the casting usually breaks vertically down to the floor of the boat so the haul out is going to be an emergency. Don't let this alarm you.....I have never been unable to open a stuck valve using this method.

The grease I use is Mercruiser anti corrosion lubricant or their all purpose grease with numbers in the name.....4-2-C, I think.

Also, once you get them freed up, open and close each week or every time you use the boat and add grease 2-3 times a year.






The seacocks used on older boats like the '88 340DA is a TAPERED PLUG seacock with a bronze body. Those can be freed up by loosening the flange bolts slightly......1/4 to 1/2 turn.....then tapping on the side opposite the handle to drive the tapered plug toward the large side which loosens it. It will leak, but you should be able to free it up, then retighten the 2 flange bolts. You cannot lubricate these valves with the boat in the water. Once the boat is hauled, you must disassemble the valve to clean and lubricate it. To do so, remove the flange bolts and clamp ring and drive the plug out of the valve body. Once it is removed, you can clean it and the tapered bore it came out of. Then coat the rubber plug with silicone lubricant (go to a swimming pool store and buy a tube) liberally. Also coat the inside of the bronze body with silicone, then reassemble the seacock.

<YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITH YOUR BOAT IN THE WATER>

Finally, if it takes a wrench to operate your seacocks, stop now before you damage or break them. Get the boat hauled and either take them apart and clean/lubricate them or replace them.
Click to expand...

Frank,

Thanks for taking the time to post this again.:thumbsup:

This is a project that I will under take before splashing the boat next season
 
SeaHarley said:
I took out the drain plug. Put in a SS grease fitting.
Teflon 2 - 4 - C
Wala
Click to expand...

Frank gave me this advice several years ago on my last boat (270DA) and I also installed them on the 310DA. I also did use SS grease fittings! I found them on-line. Now, I check and rotate all seacocks at the beginning, middle and end of our boating season. They work fine. About every other year, I squirt some more grease in them and they move freely again.

Great advice.......
Thanks Mr. Frank.

Lee
 
fwebster said:
Lee,

Did we ever finish the argument about brass vs. bronze fittings.........!
Click to expand...

LMAO..........
Great memory buddy.

All I can remember is I spent hundreds of dollars on fitting that raw water flushing system with "bronze" - casted - fittings (which worked great!) and then I sold the boat. Go figure!
As of the last time I saw the boat last year, the system was still working like designed.

Now there is a new guy on this furum that re-invented the same wheel. I didn't respond because all that information, pictures and discussions you and I had were lost on the old SRO forum and I too didn't feel like repeating it.

Have a great afternoon.

Lee
 
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