I spent like an hour looking for a wobble.
Dripless seal wobble?
- Thread starter mnm99
- Start date
firecadet613
Well-Known Member
- May 10, 2007
- 5,253
- Boat Info
- SOLD - 2007 Four Winns V358
- Engines
- Twin VP 5.7GXi V-Drive / ZF63s
mnm99
Well-Known Member
First line I wrote.. Below video a video of the seal last year with the old shaft. I didn't dupe anyone....lolI feel duped!
mnm99
Well-Known Member
Well I am broken.... I went down again to the marina. Checked alignment again. .0015 and can't get feeler in. I set up a dial indicator on the shaft in front of the seal. With the shaft bolts out I pushed hard against the tranny and turned slowly. The runout was at like .0002. ONCE BOLTED to the trans it jumped up to .0010 and you can see the gauge go up and down. UNBOLT and good again ???? WTF
1- If the taper or keyway was not correct on the coupler wouldn't align correctly
2- If the shaft was bent the dial gauge would show bad when the coupler was loose also
3- If it only happens when tightened down you would think alignment, but gap between trans and coupler is less then .0015 all around.
4-.010 happens when turning by hand so it's not a vibration.
5- Note..I noticed BOTH seals on both motors move around the same.. Didn't video NORMAL ?????
I can't seatrial till Sunday.
LOST..........
1- If the taper or keyway was not correct on the coupler wouldn't align correctly
2- If the shaft was bent the dial gauge would show bad when the coupler was loose also
3- If it only happens when tightened down you would think alignment, but gap between trans and coupler is less then .0015 all around.
4-.010 happens when turning by hand so it's not a vibration.
5- Note..I noticed BOTH seals on both motors move around the same.. Didn't video NORMAL ?????
I can't seatrial till Sunday.
LOST..........
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ZZ13
Well-Known Member
I had exact same situation with straight drives two years ago after new shaft, new coupler and new cutless bearing. shaft seal wobbled and .010 deflection at the seal. .001 with coupler unbolted. Mine turned out to be alignment and I had to move the front of the engine a bit.
So, could be your alignment procedure is flawed in some way, or the transmission coupler isn’t turning true. Put the dial indicator on the outside of the face of the transmission coupler and make sure there is not any deflection from it. That’s the first thing I checked before I did anything else.
Are you assuming we read?
firecadet613
Well-Known Member
- May 10, 2007
- 5,253
- Boat Info
- SOLD - 2007 Four Winns V358
- Engines
- Twin VP 5.7GXi V-Drive / ZF63s
Are you assuming we read?
Pfft. Why read when you can watch a video!
As someone who spends his day arguing about .001 here and .001 there, that's nothing in the grand sceme of things. Heck, I'm not even sure you can measure that accurately upsidedown in the bilge.
Especially one without a wobble as you wonder WTF.
techmitch
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2008
- 8,423
- Boat Info
- 1999 270 DA
- Engines
- Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
mnm99
Well-Known Member
I'll check the transmission flange and coupler. As for the alignment I have done it a few times before, but will check myself again. This is how I did mine and with the same result. With it unbloted and the dial on the shaft I got like no runout. Bolted is when I had the runout. Maybe the transmission flange is out of round. It's a brand new transmission. I wonder what to tolerance is on them. I'll check with the dial today. Thanks all.
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douglee25
Well-Known Member
0.0010" is in spec, is it not?
What could be happening is that when you tighten down the bolts, they become slightly off center causing your misalignment. Try tightening the bolts in a different order and see if the run out changes.
Personally I would run it and not lose any sleep over that.
Edit - one other thing you could try is after tightening the flange bolts and verifying run out, loosen the vdrive top mounting nuts on each side, check run out then. Also check just loosening one side VS the other. If you're that close, you're probably an 1/8 turn on the bottom nut up or down.
What could be happening is that when you tighten down the bolts, they become slightly off center causing your misalignment. Try tightening the bolts in a different order and see if the run out changes.
Personally I would run it and not lose any sleep over that.
Edit - one other thing you could try is after tightening the flange bolts and verifying run out, loosen the vdrive top mounting nuts on each side, check run out then. Also check just loosening one side VS the other. If you're that close, you're probably an 1/8 turn on the bottom nut up or down.
mnm99
Well-Known Member
I'll try anything at this point
Sorry guys. I did so many measurements I'm getting confused. As for the feeler gauge I used a .0015 with no gap. The dial gauge went from 0 to 2 when disconnected from trans and spun by hand. I mounted the dial touching the shaft in front of dripless. It then went from 0 to 10 when the coupler was bolted together.
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ZZ13
Well-Known Member
.001 is in spec. Spec is.004. He’s seeing .010. I ran mine for years unknowingly with a slightly bent shaft and a shaft seal wobble at .010. Never felt anything at high speed. Smooth as silk. But it did wallow out the cutless bearing a bit and the shaft at the bearing had worn down by .010. Enough to want to change it after a few years and get to the source of the cause of that (the shaft).
I wouldn't loosen the gear mounts at all. Those center the shaft in the log. If you move those you have to pull the boat again and redo it all. The engine mounts are what align the coupler.
With the coupler bolts tightened to spec and you spin the shaft by hand with the dial indicator on the shaft, what is the TIR? Then what is the TIR on the surface of the coupler where the bolts go through.
If you relax the coupler bolts (just so the two halves of the coupler remain connected but are not completely loose) and do that again what is the TIR? What then is the TIR on that same surface of the coupler?
With these four data points you will know if the couplers are the cause.
douglee25
Well-Known Member
But that's where the problem likely lies. And I disagree that you have to pull the boat again. Loosening the jam nut and taking a measurement or even turning the lower jam nuts up or down, you can always restore it to where it was prior.
douglee25
Well-Known Member
@ttmott what you are suggesting will only tell you if the coupler outer surfaces are true. The flange, bolt holes, and bore all need to be concentric and parallel on both coupler pieces to minimize run out (and of course aligned). I don't see how taking that measurement will allow him to conclude anything.
The mount adjustments nearest to the coupling flange on the gear are to center the coupling flange and shaft with respect to the shaft log to ensure the dripless seal boot is not tweeked to one side. Those are set when the shaft is installed and the seal boot not yet in place to center the shaft then they should never need to be moved again unless the boat is taken apart again. Setting those are always out of the water with the log open. The motor mounts on the other side (furthest away from the coupling flange) are what are used to move up, down, and side to side to align the mating faces of the couplers.
Now - on the flange faces - both faces are machined parallel to ensure the bolt heads are not angularly loaded. So, do the TIR with the bolts tight and do it again with them relaxed comparing with the TIR on the shaft at the seal area. You will then know if the coupling is deflecting the shaft.
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mnm99
Well-Known Member
The transmission is meant to move left and right for alignment. I don't think I have to pull the boat either since I touched that.
What I know to make it simple.
- Trans Flange to Coupler flange = less then .0015 ( no gap ) with feeler gauge no bolts
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with no bolts in.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with bolts in but loose.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .010 spinning with bolts tight.
What I'm confused about is if I'm at .0015 and cant get my feeler in at any point and then I tighten bolts why would it really change? If the mating surface was off on the coupler I would see that with the feeler gauge.
I'm going to put the dial indicator on the trans flange and coupler when tight and loose to see.
quote...Now - on the flange faces - both faces are machined parallel to ensure the bolt heads are not angularly loaded. So, do the TIR with the bolts tight and do it again with them relaxed comparing with the TIR on the shaft at the seal area. You will then know if the coupling is deflecting the shaft.
Could this be possibly fixed by removing the coupler, maybe lapping it and reinstalling? I know what the other answer is. This is a brand new shaft and coupler fitted by a well known shop. Knowing my situation they went the extra mile to get them right.
What I know to make it simple.
- Trans Flange to Coupler flange = less then .0015 ( no gap ) with feeler gauge no bolts
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with no bolts in.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with bolts in but loose.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .010 spinning with bolts tight.
What I'm confused about is if I'm at .0015 and cant get my feeler in at any point and then I tighten bolts why would it really change? If the mating surface was off on the coupler I would see that with the feeler gauge.
I'm going to put the dial indicator on the trans flange and coupler when tight and loose to see.
quote...Now - on the flange faces - both faces are machined parallel to ensure the bolt heads are not angularly loaded. So, do the TIR with the bolts tight and do it again with them relaxed comparing with the TIR on the shaft at the seal area. You will then know if the coupling is deflecting the shaft.
Could this be possibly fixed by removing the coupler, maybe lapping it and reinstalling? I know what the other answer is. This is a brand new shaft and coupler fitted by a well known shop. Knowing my situation they went the extra mile to get them right.
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firecadet613
Well-Known Member
- May 10, 2007
- 5,253
- Boat Info
- SOLD - 2007 Four Winns V358
- Engines
- Twin VP 5.7GXi V-Drive / ZF63s
Have you tried to loosen the coupler, rotate 90 degrees, bolt it up then try again?
