Does anyone here think there will be any traction to this Italy gate?

Just a bit too much.
It amuses me that some folks still find nominal communism or even socialism to be so threatening. Really? Soviet Communism ended with Gorbachev and the Berlin Wall falling. China is now a huge, industrial powerhouse and essentially a capitalistic dictatorship. More millionaires and billionaires in China than in the U.S.
Vietnam? Making your electronics, Nike and Adidas shoes and Tommy Hillfiger clothes. Certainly much better off than it was 50 years ago.
Cuba? Ever been there? I was, last year: great people - polite, educated, kind and happy, with a thriving tourism industry and perhaps the best healthcare system in the Western world. True, it's not a wealthy nation but very little crime and no homeless, either. Castro overthrew Battista, a nasty, U.S. backed dictator, way back in 1959. 60 years of a U.S. trade embargo and it's still doing fine. Meanwhile, various Democratic Socialist nations in Europe are among the most prosperous in the world.

To my mind, the U.S. has many, more urgent issues to deal with than a "threat" of communism. Maybe start with the subversive, far-right extremists that just invaded the Capital, staged an attempted coup, threatened the V.P. with lynching and were urged on by the President. That is the very real and present threat to American democracy and way of life. And Covid, a very real and present threat to life, itself.

Back to the good ol' Sea Ray stuff.
 
Juliery said:
Cuba? Ever been there? I was, last year: great people - polite, educated, kind and happy, with a thriving tourism industry and perhaps the best healthcare system in the Western world. True, it's not a wealthy nation but very little crime and no homeless, either.
Click to expand...

No, we have not been there, but our family members were born there and fled Castro. There are still family down there and based on their conversations I think their reality strongly contradicts your tourist claims.

-Kevin
 
Juliery said:
Just a bit too much.
It amuses me that some folks still find nominal communism or even socialism to be so threatening. Really? Soviet Communism ended with Gorbachev and the Berlin Wall falling. China is now a huge, industrial powerhouse and essentially a capitalistic dictatorship. More millionaires and billionaires in China than in the U.S.
Vietnam? Making your electronics, Nike and Adidas shoes and Tommy Hillfiger clothes. Certainly much better off than it was 50 years ago.
Cuba? Ever been there? I was, last year: great people - polite, educated, kind and happy, with a thriving tourism industry and perhaps the best healthcare system in the Western world. True, it's not a wealthy nation but very little crime and no homeless, either. Castro overthrew Battista, a nasty, U.S. backed dictator, way back in 1959. 60 years of a U.S. trade embargo and it's still doing fine. Meanwhile, various Democratic Socialist nations in Europe are among the most prosperous in the world.

To my mind, the U.S. has many, more urgent issues to deal with than a "threat" of communism. Maybe start with the subversive, far-right extremists that just invaded the Capital, staged an attempted coup, threatened the V.P. with lynching and were urged on by the President. That is the very real and present threat to American democracy and way of life. And Covid, a very real and present threat to life, itself.

Back to the good ol' Sea Ray stuff.
Click to expand...
Your fairy land sounds really nice...you need to leave the resorts to see how the majority lives... you were brain washed...
 
Last edited:
Juliery said:
Just a bit too much.
It amuses me that some folks still find nominal communism or even socialism to be so threatening. Really? Soviet Communism ended with Gorbachev and the Berlin Wall falling. China is now a huge, industrial powerhouse and essentially a capitalistic dictatorship. More millionaires and billionaires in China than in the U.S.
Vietnam? Making your electronics, Nike and Adidas shoes and Tommy Hillfiger clothes. Certainly much better off than it was 50 years ago.
Cuba? Ever been there? I was, last year: great people - polite, educated, kind and happy, with a thriving tourism industry and perhaps the best healthcare system in the Western world. True, it's not a wealthy nation but very little crime and no homeless, either. Castro overthrew Battista, a nasty, U.S. backed dictator, way back in 1959. 60 years of a U.S. trade embargo and it's still doing fine. Meanwhile, various Democratic Socialist nations in Europe are among the most prosperous in the world.

To my mind, the U.S. has many, more urgent issues to deal with than a "threat" of communism. Maybe start with the subversive, far-right extremists that just invaded the Capital, staged an attempted coup, threatened the V.P. with lynching and were urged on by the President. That is the very real and present threat to American democracy and way of life. And Covid, a very real and present threat to life, itself.

Back to the good ol' Sea Ray stuff.
Click to expand...
My wife is Cuban, I’m from N.Ireland raised in the early 70’s so YES we know a little about communism and religious persecution Her family still live in tin huts because your not allowed to own more than your neighbor, and I was shot as a kid in Belfast so don’t tell me or my family that communism or being “held down” because of your religion While living in the USA is not a big deal my father and mother in law almost killed themselves to get those kids to this country. So yeah we know a little and Don't want to go back to that SHIT.
 
KevinC said:
No, we have not been there, but our family members were born there and fled Castro. There are still family down there and based on their conversations I think their reality strongly contradicts your tourist claims.

-Kevin
Click to expand...
One must be careful of those who blindly carry the communists AKA Totalitarian water and spread BS from the comfort of a warm place provided by capitalism ( boat perhaps) ! Cheers to truth.
 
KevinC said:
Cuba?
Click to expand...
Oh, you are right. Cuba in the early 1900s is just like the USA is today. So is Venezuela. They both held themselves out to be the pillars of freedom and democracy until Russia took an interest and tried to influence their elections.

Kidding aside, anyone want to put some money on whether the US goes communist in the next 4 years under Biden? I bet not a snowball's chance in hell and will give you 10 to 1 odds.
 
Creekwood said:
Where is it that communism has taken root in the world? You say that like there has been a series of places that have gone communist in the world when they were truly democratic (or democratic republics)? This kind of fear-mongering from all side is what is fueling the flame in the US. I don't care who is elected, there is zero chance of the US becoming "communist".
Click to expand...
What should concern everyone is the blatant and constant restriction of first amendment rights in this country. The rhetoric from the left where members of the house are instructing their constituents to shout down and harass those who disagree is horrific.

The tech giants such as twitter, facebook and youtube have been actively censoring conservative speech for a long time now and these platforms have become a main artery in the way we communicate. Even POTUS himself has been banned, remember this is not about what you think about POTUS or other conservative figures, its about a constitutionally protected right. A right that is not being protected by our Gov't at this time. Even these so called "news channels" consistently cut off POTUS and other Republican during national broadcasts to interject, something that was never done under Obama. You will not see this behavior towards Biden either.

Constant talk from the left about redistribution of wealth, restriction on the second amendment, packing the supreme court, making DC and PR a state to bolster democrat votes all aimed at keeping the left permanently seated in power.

You say that we can never become communist? Our founding fathers would disagree with you which is why the second amendment exists, so the citizens of our great nation can protect themselves against tyranny be it domestic or foreign.

If you look at countries like China, Russia, N Korea etc, they all have three things in common, lack of a fair and non bias press (usually state owned), a non existent freedom of speech and they're communist. We are the most prosperous and free country on earth and some very wealthy nations and people don't like it.
Controlling the speech and actions of people is paramount to the existence of a communist state, we are in unprecedented times and nothing should be taken for granted.

I don't agree with your take on this topic but I will always defend your right to voice it.
 
Last edited:
Searageous said:
What should concern everyone is the blatant and constant restriction of first amendment rights in this country. The rhetoric from the left where members of the house are instructing their constituents to shout down and harass those who disagree is horrific.

The tech giants such as twitter, facebook and youtube have been actively censoring conservative speech for a long time now and these platforms have become a main artery in the way we communicate. Even POTUS himself has been banned, remember this is not about what you think about POTUS or other conservative figures, its about a constitutionally protected right. A right that is not being protected by our Gov't at this time. Even these so called "news channels" consistently cut off POTUS and other Republican during national broadcasts to interject, something that was never done under Obama. You will not see this behavior towards Biden either.

Constant talk from the left about redistribution of wealth, restriction on the second amendment, packing the supreme court, making DC and PR a state to bolster democrat votes all aimed at keeping the left permanently seated in power.

You say that we can never become communist? Our founding fathers would disagree with you which is why the second amendment exists, so the citizens of our great nation can protect themselves against tyranny be it domestic or foreign.

If you look at countries like China, Russia, N Korea etc, they all have three things in common, lack of a fair and non bias press (usually state owned), a non existent freedom of speech and they're communist. We are the most prosperous and free country on earth and some very wealthy nations and people don't like it.
Controlling the speech and actions of people is paramount to the existence of a communist state, we are in unprecedented times and nothing should be taken for granted.

I don't agree with your take on this topic but I will always defend your right to voice it.
Click to expand...
1st Amendment Rights apply to government restrictions, not to private or publically held companies. Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/Facebook have Terms of Service you agree to when you sign up. They can cancel your account anytime. As for POTUS being interrupted by news channels, that's only when he lies, which is often.
 
Creekwood said:
Oh, you are right. Cuba in the early 1900s is just like the USA is today. So is Venezuela. They both held themselves out to be the pillars of freedom and democracy until Russia took an interest and tried to influence their elections.

Kidding aside, anyone want to put some money on whether the US goes communist in the next 4 years under Biden? I bet not a snowball's chance in hell and will give you 10 to 1 odds.
Click to expand...
 
Gee, how about 5-6 years? You eat an Elephant one bite at a time. To me It is a right direction or wrong direction thing. China doesn’t allow free speech and not a great place for women or gay rights.
 
Searageous said:
What should concern everyone is the blatant and constant restriction of first amendment rights in this country. The rhetoric from the left where members of the house are instructing their constituents to shout down and harass those who disagree is horrific.

The tech giants such as twitter, facebook and youtube have been actively censoring conservative speech for a long time now and these platforms have become a main artery in the way we communicate. Even POTUS himself has been banned, remember this is not about what you think about POTUS or other conservative figures, its about a constitutionally protected right. A right that is not being protected by our Gov't at this time. Even these so called "news channels" consistently cut off POTUS and other Republican during national broadcasts to interject, something that was never done under Obama. You will not see this behavior towards Biden either.

Constant talk from the left about redistribution of wealth, restriction on the second amendment, packing the supreme court, making DC and PR a state to bolster democrat votes all aimed at keeping the left permanently seated in power.

You say that we can never become communist? Our founding fathers would disagree with you which is why the second amendment exists, so the citizens of our great nation can protect themselves against tyranny be it domestic or foreign.

If you look at countries like China, Russia, N Korea etc, they all have three things in common, lack of a fair and non bias press (usually state owned), a non existent freedom of speech and they're communist. We are the most prosperous and free country on earth and some very wealthy nations and people don't like it.
Controlling the speech and actions of people is paramount to the existence of a communist state, we are in unprecedented times and nothing should be taken for granted.

I don't agree with your take on this topic but I will always defend your right to voice it.
Click to expand...
Well said my friend, let’s get back to boating while we still can !
 
The Bill of Rights only apply to government, not private organizations. That being said, it is disturbing that these private companies are only allowing one side of the conversation. I quit watching the 'news'. Actually, it is no longer the 'news', but the 'opinion'.

And I don't think communism is on the horizon but do believe we are leaning to socialism. Many of these millennials are pushing for it and many of the democrats are now adopting that agenda to gather votes. We have been inching that direction for several years and with the Democrats having full control now I'm worried about how things will be in 4 years. $8/gallon for gas? $2000/month for healthcare (almost there already). 50% income tax? All to support those that don't feel like working for a living. My wife is a teacher and still keeps in touch with many of her former students. Many of them have been coddled so badly that they don't have a job, no drivers license, and live off of government assistance. Not because there is anything wrong with them but that they have no idea how to be independent.
 
Juliery said:
1st Amendment Rights apply to government restrictions, not to private or publically held companies. Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/Facebook have Terms of Service you agree to when you sign up. They can cancel your account anytime. As for POTUS being interrupted by news channels, that's only when he lies, which is often.
Click to expand...

Except these corporations are given special government protection (section 230 protections) from being liable for the content posted specifically because they are supposed to be providing a forum for free speech and not acting as publishers with editorial control. This doesn't remove their responsibility for removing illegal content when required but it doesn't allow them to remove content that they don't like. (See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230)

I agree companies should be free to do as they like but then they also should have these protections stripped.

As for lies... well I will not jump into that debate but facts don't always bear out the way the news report it and that is why the freedom of speech is important. This is for both sides.
 
Last edited:
Op,

I certainly understand your question and potentially your concerns....I think the report you linked to is combining actual events with potentially false info...I can't confirm it's false, but I found no additional info to substantiate it. Just a bunch of low-tier "news" blogs reposting the same thing...

What I did find is the actual info regarding the breach at the company and the arrests. For your review:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/itali...ects-in-leonardo-military-defense-data-theft/

Now, having said that, keep peeling back the layers and who knows what you find. An argument could be made to create an easily discredited story to deflect the real fraud.

As a tech guy, I've been vocal and adamant that these systems are ripe for hacking and corruption. But, hey, who am I? People who have never coded in their life nor designed a network are explaining to me how it is...I just shake my head. I designed networks for the Fed. Gov and sold tempested computers years ago... wtf do I know?

Now, am I saying there was fraud? Nope...no clue at this point...Though, the suppression of what I would call general discussion, and the baseless narrative that gains so much traction, is a bit concerning... Truth is, election fraud or not, look at the comprehension skills of the ave. American today, and it's no wonder we are in this mess...My point is, the liberal mindset is growing at their own demise... They argue points with no experience nor basis...Case in point, look at the flooding of these people to predominantly conservative states...Look at the implosion of New York and the exodus from Cali...Ever been to Cali? I lived there...It's a beautiful state...Trust me they aren't leaving because of the scenery...They are leaving because they don't want to live under the same administration they voted for....It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic...

These Canadians that want to chime in about socialism and China are so misguided I don't know where to start. They have little to no clue how much the strength of the USA has protected the world from totalitarian regimes so they can openly discuss totalitarian regimes...

One of the highlights of my life was meeting Gorbachev....He, along with Regan, provided freedom for my friend in Hugary. She was born the year the wall came down. Do you want to talk to her family about communism? You want to walk in Budapest and view the shoe memorial?

Look, I could go on. But, the admins here will likely implode this thread... because open discussion among adults is just out of favor in these times... I guess we need utopia...I'm sure China can build it....The tragic greed of our nations allowing for a communist totalitarian regime potentially leading the world in growth...Think about that...Meditate on it.... Tenzin Gyatso, arguably one of the most peaceful people in the world, can not go home...Because of choice? Because he doesn't want to? Doesn't know where it is?

I'll take on socialism in another post, maybe....But, when people try and equate a system used by a much smaller, homogeneous society, that instills a work ethic in their citizens, to the USA, I know we're not going to get far in the discussion. Do you think hard working people want a socialist system? Not likely...Let's go back to the NY & Cali example...

Anyway, if this hasn't already been an earful and you don't think things are on the move...Perhaps you'd like to follow this...Not even in office yet....

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/127/text?r=17&s=1
 
Juliery said:
Just a bit too much.
It amuses me that some folks still find nominal communism or even socialism to be so threatening. Really? Soviet Communism ended with Gorbachev and the Berlin Wall falling. China is now a huge, industrial powerhouse and essentially a capitalistic dictatorship. More millionaires and billionaires in China than in the U.S.
Vietnam? Making your electronics, Nike and Adidas shoes and Tommy Hillfiger clothes. Certainly much better off than it was 50 years ago.
Cuba? Ever been there? I was, last year: great people - polite, educated, kind and happy, with a thriving tourism industry and perhaps the best healthcare system in the Western world. True, it's not a wealthy nation but very little crime and no homeless, either. Castro overthrew Battista, a nasty, U.S. backed dictator, way back in 1959. 60 years of a U.S. trade embargo and it's still doing fine. Meanwhile, various Democratic Socialist nations in Europe are among the most prosperous in the world.

To my mind, the U.S. has many, more urgent issues to deal with than a "threat" of communism. Maybe start with the subversive, far-right extremists that just invaded the Capital, staged an attempted coup, threatened the V.P. with lynching and were urged on by the President. That is the very real and present threat to American democracy and way of life. And Covid, a very real and present threat to life, itself.

Back to the good ol' Sea Ray stuff.
Click to expand...
Communism has killed more people in the last 150 years than all the wars fought combined. Please tell me you are only looking to incite people with that post. Didn’t look but my guess you may be a Canadian.
 
Juliery said:
1st Amendment Rights apply to government restrictions, not to private or publically held companies. Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/Facebook have Terms of Service you agree to when you sign up. They can cancel your account anytime. As for POTUS being interrupted by news channels, that's only when he lies, which is often.
Click to expand...
kvduff said:
Communism has killed more people in the last 150 years than all the wars fought combined. Please tell me you are only looking to incite people with that post. Didn’t look but my guess you may be a Canadian.
Click to expand...
Ha! I had to look, and low and behold a Trudeau sycophant.
 
Juliery said:
1st Amendment Rights apply to government restrictions, not to private or publically held companies. Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/Facebook have Terms of Service you agree to when you sign up. They can cancel your account anytime. As for POTUS being interrupted by news channels, that's only when he lies, which is often.
Click to expand...
Actually not entirely true. The seminal case is Marsh v Alabama holding that a private company town cannot restict religous expression. There is a line of jurispurdence following that case fliping back and forth based on the circumstances. Point is that the inquiry is much more nuanced than -- "only applys to the government." Given the dominance of online platforms in our daily lives one could easily make a "free speech" argument. These tech companies are essentailly monopolies and have now engaged in actions designed to crush the competition -- see the ban of the Parler app. by google and apple. They have set themselves up to be bitch slapped.
 
Searageous said:
What should concern everyone is the blatant and constant restriction of first amendment rights in this country. The rhetoric from the left where members of the house are instructing their constituents to shout down and harass those who disagree is horrific.

The tech giants such as twitter, facebook and youtube have been actively censoring conservative speech for a long time now and these platforms have become a main artery in the way we communicate. Even POTUS himself has been banned, remember this is not about what you think about POTUS or other conservative figures, its about a constitutionally protected right. A right that is not being protected by our Gov't at this time. Even these so called "news channels" consistently cut off POTUS and other Republican during national broadcasts to interject, something that was never done under Obama. You will not see this behavior towards Biden either.

Constant talk from the left about redistribution of wealth, restriction on the second amendment, packing the supreme court, making DC and PR a state to bolster democrat votes all aimed at keeping the left permanently seated in power.

You say that we can never become communist? Our founding fathers would disagree with you which is why the second amendment exists, so the citizens of our great nation can protect themselves against tyranny be it domestic or foreign.

If you look at countries like China, Russia, N Korea etc, they all have three things in common, lack of a fair and non bias press (usually state owned), a non existent freedom of speech and they're communist. We are the most prosperous and free country on earth and some very wealthy nations and people don't like it.
Controlling the speech and actions of people is paramount to the existence of a communist state, we are in unprecedented times and nothing should be taken for granted.

I don't agree with your take on this topic but I will always defend your right to voice it.
Click to expand...

You forgot the new "accountability" list the lefts are making.
 
Boat Guy said:
Op,

I certainly understand your question and potentially your concerns....I think the report you linked to is combining actual events with potentially false info...I can't confirm it's false, but I found no additional info to substantiate it. Just a bunch of low-tier "news" blogs reposting the same thing...

What I did find is the actual info regarding the breach at the company and the arrests. For your review:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/itali...ects-in-leonardo-military-defense-data-theft/

Now, having said that, keep peeling back the layers and who knows what you find. An argument could be made to create an easily discredited story to deflect the real fraud.

As a tech guy, I've been vocal and adamant that these systems are ripe for hacking and corruption. But, hey, who am I? People who have never coded in their life nor designed a network are explaining to me how it is...I just shake my head. I designed networks for the Fed. Gov and sold tempested computers years ago... wtf do I know?

Now, am I saying there was fraud? Nope...no clue at this point...Though, the suppression of what I would call general discussion, and the baseless narrative that gains so much traction, is a bit concerning... Truth is, election fraud or not, look at the comprehension skills of the ave. American today, and it's no wonder we are in this mess...My point is, the liberal mindset is growing at their own demise... They argue points with no experience nor basis...Case in point, look at the flooding of these people to predominantly conservative states...Look at the implosion of New York and the exodus from Cali...Ever been to Cali? I lived there...It's a beautiful state...Trust me they aren't leaving because of the scenery...They are leaving because they don't want to live under the same administration they voted for....It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic...

These Canadians that want to chime in about socialism and China are so misguided I don't know where to start. They have little to no clue how much the strength of the USA has protected the world from totalitarian regimes so they can openly discuss totalitarian regimes...

One of the highlights of my life was meeting Gorbachev....He, along with Regan, provided freedom for my friend in Hugary. She was born the year the wall came down. Do you want to talk to her family about communism? You want to walk in Budapest and view the shoe memorial?

Look, I could go on. But, the admins here will likely implode this thread... because open discussion among adults is just out of favor in these times... I guess we need utopia...I'm sure China can build it....The tragic greed of our nations allowing for a communist totalitarian regime potentially leading the world in growth...Think about that...Meditate on it.... Tenzin Gyatso, arguably one of the most peaceful people in the world, can not go home...Because of choice? Because he doesn't want to? Doesn't know where it is?

I'll take on socialism in another post, maybe....But, when people try and equate a system used by a much smaller, homogeneous society, that instills a work ethic in their citizens, to the USA, I know we're not going to get far in the discussion. Do you think hard working people want a socialist system? Not likely...Let's go back to the NY & Cali example...

Anyway, if this hasn't already been an earful and you don't think things are on the move...Perhaps you'd like to follow this...Not even in office yet....

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/127/text?r=17&s=1
Click to expand...
On behalf of Canadians (this one at least) -- Don't ever think that Canadians even remotely consider communism to be in any way good. Canada is a liberal democracy. I wish it were a bit more conservative, but we flip back and forth in Canada between Conservative (like your moderate Republican - or maybe slightly left of that), to Liberal (probably aligned to Moderate Democrats). We have socialized medicine, but that is the extent of socialist ideals in Canada. And that was put in place in 1968.

The only thing communist in Canada is our prime minister being the love-child of Fidel Castro and Margaret Trudeau.

But I still don't think there is a snowball's chance of communism ever taking root in the USA. Ain't gonna happen, and you don't need to "take out" all the Democrats to prevent it from happening. Just elect strong, principled, leaders in government and you will continue to do just fine. And don't let Trump or Trump wannabe's run next time. All they do is fire up the extreme left to vote and the extreme right to go nuts. Let the extremists lay low in the weeds and let the good people in the middle run the country.
 
Creekwood said:
On behalf of Canadians (this one at least) -- Don't ever think that Canadians even remotely consider communism to be in any way good. Canada is a liberal democracy. I wish it were a bit more conservative, but we flip back and forth in Canada between Conservative (like your moderate Republican - or maybe slightly left of that), to Liberal (probably aligned to Moderate Democrats). We have socialized medicine, but that is the extent of socialist ideals in Canada. And that was put in place in 1968.

The only thing communist in Canada is our prime minister being the love-child of Fidel Castro and Margaret Trudeau.

But I still don't think there is a snowball's chance of communism ever taking root in the USA. Ain't gonna happen, and you don't need to "take out" all the Democrats to prevent it from happening. Just elect strong, principled, leaders in government and you will continue to do just fine. And don't let Trump or Trump wannabe's run next time. All they do is fire up the extreme left to vote and the extreme right to go nuts. Let the extremists lay low in the weeds and let the good people in the middle run the country.
Click to expand...
Well then the same could be said about Facism. So why the need for Antifa?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,184
Messages
1,428,135
Members
61,094
Latest member
Linword
Back
Top