The tale of a dishonest boat broker…. SR 360 DA !

SHOULD I KEEP BUYING OR SHOULD I BACK OUT ?

  • RUN FOREST RUN !

    Votes: 32 100.0%

  • GO FOR IT !

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • CALL ME ! I have information for you

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
sws01 said:
Is this post for real? When exactly did the boat sink and when was it salvaged? First off, the 2020 PowerBoat Guide has the diesels at low retail of $91 large and high retail of $110 large, What was the surveyor's estimate of current market value?

Second, the current owner is clearly having buyer's remorse (and rightly so) - very few boats like this are sold after only 1 year ownership. Meanwhile, the broker is just as happy to take current owner's commission as he was the owner who sold in 2019.

Did you get to see the receipts from the shop where the "recent" service was supposedly done?

Also, if the mechanics say it will take $20-25 large for all the work, better figure on about twice that.

With the serious deficiencies you mention, like inop bilge pumps, overheating engine, water intrusions, flaky electrical system, etc., I'm surprised the surveyor didin't condemn the vessel..

And if both engines must be replaced after unsuccessful repairs, you'll end up spending on just new engines what you spent to purchase that jewel.

If you're going to move it somewhere other than where it is now, figure on $10 - $20 large just on shipping costs if overland. If on its own bottom, you'd better get the deficiencies corrected and thoroughly "shaken down" before you head out.

Forget "Run, Forest, Run"; this sounds more like it deserves Pink Floyd's "Run Like Hell"

Just remember: Boating can make you a millionaire . . . . if you start out as a billioniare...
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unfortunately it is 100% real ! survey came back at 90k !no doubt on the second owner having cold feet, therefore neglected the boat, the question is because of the massive amount of work to be done or for some other reason ?

shipping cost was quoted from Punta Gorda to milwaukee for $5k by boat moving company here is MKE
It's disappointing that one, wouldn't be taking the time to correctly representing an asset you are seilling and knowingly miss representing the action items .
when we push the broker, hey where is the receipt of the work done, well the owner just moved its all in boxes and he can't locate it... so in other words nothing was done...

we made an offer based on the pics and the visit knowing it would repair some TLC but having all mechanical items in perfect working condition ! to which as we found out is NOT the case
 
Mathieu Imbert said:
unfortunately it is 100% real ! survey came back at 90k !no doubt on the second owner having cold feet, therefore neglected the boat, the question is because of the massive amount of work to be done or for some other reason ?

shipping cost was quoted from Punta Gorda to milwaukee for $5k by boat moving company here is MKE
It's disappointing that one, wouldn't be taking the time to correctly representing an asset you are seilling and knowingly miss representing the action items .
when we push the broker, hey where is the receipt of the work done, well the owner just moved its all in boxes and he can't locate it... so in other words nothing was done...

we made an offer based on the pics and the visit knowing it would repair some TLC but having all mechanical items in perfect working condition ! to which as we found out is NOT the case
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Bad boat, bad broker..he ain't done trying to stick you. Forget about this boat. Don't let them entice you with price, move on. There's a good boat out there somewhere waiting for you.
 
What an interesting thread. I'd love to know the real history of this boat. There's absolutely no reason a 2005 boat should have all of those systems failing, all at the same time. If we had a bet going...I'd bet on the sinking theory someone else has started.

Another interesting point I haven't seen mentioned - is this surveyor on CRACK or is he in cohoots with the broker? I just can't see how this boat would ever survey at $90k. Lordy...

OP - lot's of great boats on the Great Lakes for sub $100k. That 360 shares the same body style as the late 90's 370's and 400's. You'd be of questionable mind if you spent another second considering this boat :)
 
I feel your pain. During our search for a new to us boat I paid for two Survey’s on salt water boats due to the low selling price. We had to walk away from both. In both cases these boats were beyond driving distance for a visual so I relied on the honesty of the broker and ultimately the survey. Both sea trials and survey resulted in us walking. So this changed our tactics, we decided the next boat we would do the walk through meet with the owner prior to shelling out the money for the survey. We drove 8 1/2 hours to Atlanta to buy the boat we ended up with. Hard lessons to learn but throwing $1800.00 down the drain saved us thousands in the long run...
 
we were showed some turds over the last few years looking for a 340-420.. amazing I found our 410 from Facebook.. yep Facebook... put eyes on it ( friend), then drove several hours to look over, boat was the one...so we started the process, it was not perfect but we needed no broker, we did get two good surveyors ( hull) and ( engine)...I feel bad for you, like others said run, even if they counter you are looking at a full season or two on the hard for repairs and clean up... not worth the boating time...
 
Good move, leave it behind. just had a similar problem with 2005 340 advertised through a broker. Boat was in Homestead FL, told broker I was coming down from NY, I asked him if the 320hrs were original, he said yes. He said boat was in very good condition, I get there and they were rebuilt, by a backyard mechanic who put all the original parts back during long block rebuild. Bent prop, water coming in through rudder shafts, heavy rust on generator etc, etc. Surveyor said "How bad do you want this boat" and I said "Not that bad, enough said".

Broker lied through his teeth, manager agreed and no refund for short haul, airfare or hotel! I guess thats the cost of business these days, but in the end I found and purchased a really nice 04 Sundancer 360 that's been used in fresh water so I guess it worked out.

Mathieu Imbert said:
Upon my great disappointment, time and expenses I had to walk away from our deal to upgrade to a 2005 360 DA this morning!

The boat:
2005 Sea Ray 360 Sundancer with Yanmar diesel engines
Hull: SERF0653E505
The seller broker: Jim XXXXXX

Historical
Vessel was sold to the current owner in 2019 by Jim XXXXX.

The sell speech from the broker:
Perfect condition! just need minor cosmetic work due to lack of use
Engines in great working condition, recently serviced!
the seller is apparently the seller is disabilitated and the broker is making all the calls solely.
its clear that he has severely misrepresented the vessel with his ever changing story and excuses....

The survey:
Unfortunately, the vessel did not survey very well at all... engine overheat within 10 min, drop in voltages, various alarms were ringing during the whole sea trial (which was cut short due to the engine overheat)

Major oil leak coming from the starboard engine, water intrusion from the rudder and prop shaft (no back up seal on either) the bottom requires strip and paint.

The oil samples reveled high content of cooper & aluminum and water in the engines and generator which does not power on. The coolant reveled high level of corrosion, no sign that zinc we replaced in the last 2 years.

The mechanics suggest based on the condition and color of the coolant, chances you have to replace aftercooler, oil cooler is very high!

He quoted $10k of repairs for just the engines! 18k if coolers have to be replaced!

This is in addition of the need to replace all electronics, Radar, autopilot, GPS are all INOP!

Refrigerator, ice maker is INOP! The seller replaced 2 out 4 batteries with AGM/ACID!!!
The battery charger is only rated for Acid and was pegged out at +40 amps when just using the light, full wax job, full bottom job, carpet replacement …. The above is just the major point its missing all the small items such as INOP lamps, bilge pump, drains, upholstery ….



The back-and-forth post:
Upon this unfortune discovery, we returned to the seller and informed him of the findings and estimate… and offered him to deduct $10k from the vessel price to account for the mechanical issues and as previously agreed he would be responsible to complete the repair of the generator.

He countered 9k off, as is where is!

Including the generator repair the mechanics believe there is about 20-25k of engines repairs


What do you think? I m right to walk away or mistake its worth it
Take a look at the pics not the best quality but I think you get a pretty good idea ...
VOTE BELOW !
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Personally I would never put money down for a survey on something I did not go look at first. Would you buy a house or car without going to look? People think because you have money invested in the survey and travel you will look over things and say, Oh I can live with that or that won't be bad to fix. If you see things that are a problem there will be 20 more you don't see.
 
Jus the two of us said:
Personally I would never put money down for a survey on something I did not go look at first. Would you buy a house or car without going to look? People think because you have money invested in the survey and travel you will look over things and say, Oh I can live with that or that won't be bad to fix. If you see things that are a problem there will be 20 more you don't see.
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Some times seeing it isn't enough. We looked at a 2007 Sea Ray 260 Sundancer. It was on a trailer when we looked at it. Broker said everything worked, etc. We put money down and scheduled a survey. Once in the water there was a pretty good leak through the transom assembly that the surveyor found. Also, the only shore power appliance that worked was the air conditioning. Nothing else worked. The owners ended up putting a new transom assembly on it and wanted us to purchase the boat for the original price + the cost of the new transom assembly. :eek: We said no thank you, got our deposit money back, and walked away. It's amazing how some people think.
 
Jus the two of us said:
Personally I would never put money down for a survey on something I did not go look at first. Would you buy a house or car without going to look? People think because you have money invested in the survey and travel you will look over things and say, Oh I can live with that or that won't be bad to fix. If you see things that are a problem there will be 20 more you don't see.
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After two blown surveys, I decided I would need to "pre-survey" not just take a look. Last boat I looked at I found a leaking remote oil filter hose (which was the only issue other than some salt water corrosion). Owner was happy, so he could get it fixed. But boat sold to someone elese.
 
“If we had a bet going...I'd bet on the sinking theory someone else has started.”

Makes sense....the Original Poster indicated

“water intrusion from the rudder and prop shaft (no back up seal on either) ”
 
Golfman25 said:
I guess I can't understand why a broker wouldn't "survey" his own listings. The time they waste showing people garbage boats at unrealistic prices would more than make up for a few hours checking everything out so they know whether the boat is even worth their time. You get the same money (pct) for selling a nice boat in working order with no hassels that you do putting up with a bunch of BS on a crappy boat.
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I wonder how many of these brokers are serious career marine brokers and how many are just temporary help or fronting for someone else even shadier than they are.

I suppose it might be like used cars, the better ones get sold through larger and more established dealerships and the worse ones wind up on the weird independent lots where they snag the naive and the cheapskates.
 
We looked at several boats before we this one. In all I think I had 3 surveys done. All had issues. The selling broker ask each time to get a copy of the survey. I did not give it to him as I felt that perhaps in some way they could use it to keep the deposit. I got my deposits back each time.
 
I saw this 360 listing and called back in early November. The broker (Jim) was very vague when responding to most of my basic questions, like ability to provide service records, exactly what was serviced when recent service was done, or the length of current ownership (yet he claimed to be personal friends of the seller). Ultimately, I decided I wasn't willing to make the trip to FL and glad that I didn't.

Ironically, I had directly asked the broker if the drawer under the freezer was stained from mold and he said not at all, and that the interior shows very well, and "maybe the carpets could use a mild cleaning, otherwise the cabin is very clean". With that said, I am sorry that you did make the trip and hope you have an easy time getting your deposit back.
 
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I got this story beat.

I flew from Chicago to Seattle to buy a BMW 750iL. It was represented in the photos as a cream puff.

I had a mechanic lined up. Hotel. Rental car.

When I pulled into the dealer the car was on a lift but still on the ground. It was obviously repainted. The MPar wheels were cheap knock offs.

I walked from the rear of the car to the front once. Told the salesman he and his dealer are liars. They knew I was coming cross country. The car was junk.

It happens.
 
Jus the two of us said:
Personally I would never put money down for a survey on something I did not go look at first. Would you buy a house or car without going to look? People think because you have money invested in the survey and travel you will look over things and say, Oh I can live with that or that won't be bad to fix. If you see things that are a problem there will be 20 more you don't see.
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I think this is kind hard to say in absolute terms. I’m in NY and found a boat in Charleston. I was able to have a friend put eyes on the boat and he reported it was in good condition - and owned by a reputable dealer.

Shortly after I had 30 minutes to exercise an option to make a offer or pass. There was no way I would be able to travel down to Charleston before getting my own eyes on it - and I wasn’t jazzed about making a trip in COVID times either. The first time I saw the boat myself was with the surveyor.
 
This feels like a troll post. You describe an obvious POS boat and ask us to vote on whether you should walk away.

not sure if serious.....
 
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