How bad are soft spots on a foredeck? Should I walk away?

Should I walk?


  • Total voters
    15

jamus

New Member
Jul 10, 2020
5
Boat Info
Considering ‘99 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer (DA?)
Engines
Mercury Horizon 8.1
New to this forum and thread and hoping for some guidance.

Just finished structural survey (this guy went above and beyond - 8hrs w/ us) on ‘99 400 Sundancer. LOVE THIS BOAT & LAYOUT!

Everything was going well until we hit the foredeck. Probable leakage in a couple spots. Bow equipment has been pulled and reseated/sealed at the bow (approx 4sf) where the anchor, windlass, spotlight and other equipment is attached. Additional soft deck around starboard and middle hatch (approx 10-15sf). Don’t know if the hatches were resealed and previous owners were not the type to be up on the deck. One estimate from a fiberglass guy next door was $20-$30K because he’d want to do the entire foredeck.

Other than that, some normal stuff about hoses, blown exhaust gasket on the generator (that they never used), inverter problems (never used), water pump needs to be replaced, vacuflush rebuild of the valves, 1/2 of the electronics are in need of updating, and spotlight moves but doesn’t shine. Oh, and it looks like a drip from the riser gaskets on both engines. All in all, I’m generously guessing $10K if I hire it all out.

Here’s the kicker: Repowered with recent Horizon 8.1 - total hours... 20

We’re already at a decent price, but the deck work is considerable and I’ll be saddled with the devalue when I resell. Trying to figure out if I walk, or ask to drop the price another $20K (or more) to let the previous owners walk away. I’m not looking to take advantage of their misfortune, but the work that the deck needs seems scary.

Caveat: I am not the fix it guy. I’m the guy who writes the checks. I don’t anticipate doing much of this work, other that with my buddies who are excited to get under the hood.

Thanks for your consideration. Hope to join your ranks as an owner sometime soon
 
Best advice I think would be keep looking. If your not a fixit guy, buy a boat that was owned by a guy who was or at least did not defer maintenance. It sounds like this boat did a lot of time being a condo and not a boat. Let a fix it guy get a deal on this one and find yourself a gem that you will not regret buying no matter the price.
Carpe Diem
 
Walk away. Too much to address without local knowledge. Where are you located?
 
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Walk away. Too much to address without local knowledge. Where are you located?
Located in the Pacific Northwest. Little bit of rain in these parts, so want to make sure the hatches have been fully sealed before Fall.
 
that is a huge undertaking and yes, it can "eat" 20k really fast if a pro is doing the work - if it is fixed properly and documented, I would not worry about resale value - I would consider it a plus on a boat of that age - don't know what your paying, but looking at a '98 down here with rebuilt 3116 cats for 65k - solid boat but needs cosmetics
 
That much area of soft deck is VERY significant. Get an estimate of the cost of the deck repair. That will give you an idea of the discount between one that has a dry deck and one that is wet like this one. And the discount should be MORE than that cost because of the risks and the fact that the value of a dry pristine boat is much higher than one that has a major repair needed. And if you don't fix it, it will make that boat very hard to sell when you want to. I personally would run.
Those of us that have been around boats for a long time will tell you there is no such thing as a cheap boat.
 
Look we just acquired a new to boat that had low hours and has been babied all its life (heated indoor winter storage) and all the bells an whistles.

in two seasons we’ve spent $21 k on new nav electronics, $8k on upholstery and canvas and another $5k upgrading galley, adding TVs & internal WiFi for streaming tv, sheets, silverware, plates, etc.,etc. and that’s on a pristine boat. It also might sound ridiculous, sheets, TVs, silverware and dishes, but a boat this size is more of a second home than vehicle

The 400 is a big boat. The 8.1 is a great gas engine, we had the sterndrive version in our old boat. But this is a gasser. At plane and cruise speed, based on our consumption numbers it’s probably sucking down between thirty and forty gallons per hour. A similar sized boat with diesels will be about half that.

My recommendation, is keep looking. All of the things you found plus the gasoline engines makes this a poor choice for a future romance.
 
Having walked away from two boats, I feel you pain. The first one had a list of "normal stuff." Well guess what, that's not normal. That's deferred maintenance. I am a DIY type guy for many things, but didn't want to take on such a project. Hiring it out is cost prohibitive.

The second had the soft deck issue (everything else was great). That was a tough one. It wasn't "that bad" and like you say, not a place we'll be hanging out. My thoughts where you could remove the hatch and get to it by digging out and replacing the core (someone on here did that, so not my idea). Not a professional repair, but good enough on a 20+ year old boat. IF I could get a big enough discount. But again, did I want to do the work? I asked the seller to find out about repair and/or gave him the options of selling to other interested parties "as is." He offered a $3000 discount, not nearly enough. He was in the process of buying another boat, and the dealer was willing to take it on trade. He still has it, so I think it might have fallen through.

So as others have said, if you're not the DIY type, it's probably a walk. Unless you can steel the thing. You'll be writing some big checks and at the mercy of your providers schedules. If you do decide to go thru with it, add inside storage costs to your repair estimate -- the boat will need to sit inside a while to dry out. Good luck.
 
This isn't a simple easy repair because the area is large and well outside the hatch area. 15 ft sq is too late to access in the 1/2" access between the gelcoat and interior fiberglass so either the exterior gelcoat and resin or the interior fiberglass layer will need to be removed to get to the balsa core layer. The worry here is how do you remove the balsa coring and still preserve the non-skid texture of the deck. Removing the damaged/rotted core is pretty easy, drying the core is easy, however, preserving the texture and appearance of the non-skid is not easy. The repair can be done from underneath but that makes a disastrous mess of the boats interior and is an approach most fiberglass repair guys won't touch.

Walk away and keep shopping unless you can get the seller to assume total financial and structural responsibility for the repair. An area as large as you describe is very likely more like a $25-$30,000 and will take a long time to do, given that this is the busy season. You likely will not be boating until this time next year, if the balsa coring id very wet.

The other consideration is that all of the other hatches and port lights will need to be removed, checked for rot then rebedded and sealed with fresh silicone.

Good luck with it...........
 
that is a huge undertaking and yes, it can "eat" 20k really fast if a pro is doing the work - if it is fixed properly and documented, I would not worry about resale value - I would consider it a plus on a boat of that age - don't know what your paying, but looking at a '98 down here with rebuilt 3116 cats for 65k - solid boat but needs cosmetics

There’s a significant “upcharge” in the Pacific Northwest. For instance, a solid ‘99 400 DA w/ diesels is listing at $125K. The same gasser lists at $95K. I figure if I can get a solid discount at $65K, I can seal the hatches and defer for a couple of seasons, take the repair at my timeframe. But I could be smokin’ something. It is legal here.
 
There’s a significant “upcharge” in the Pacific Northwest. For instance, a solid ‘99 400 DA w/ diesels is listing at $125K. The same gasser lists at $95K. I figure if I can get a solid discount at $65K, I can seal the hatches and defer for a couple of seasons, take the repair at my timeframe. But I could be smokin’ something. It is legal here.

Even at a deep discount like that, you would still be paying 65k for someone else’s serious problems that you aren’t skilled to address.
I would keep looking if I were you.
IMHO: It is usually cheaper to pay the premium price up front for the better boat.
 
There’s a significant “upcharge” in the Pacific Northwest. For instance, a solid ‘99 400 DA w/ diesels is listing at $125K. The same gasser lists at $95K. I figure if I can get a solid discount at $65K, I can seal the hatches and defer for a couple of seasons, take the repair at my timeframe. But I could be smokin’ something. It is legal here.

Frank is just about the most knowledgable guy here on Sea Rays. His guestimate of the possible repair cost is just about the differential between what you hope to get this boat for and what a good condition version would cost you. At best its a zero sum game, at the worst you could up spending the equivalent of a well kept diesel boat.

I get it, you saw it, and you fell in love. We've all done it at one time or another. There have been more cars in my garage over the years that I care to admit that at some point I asked myself the question of "what was I thinking". You're an adult and can make your own decisions. None of us have any investment in this boat and the consensus so far, is to walk away. Collectively the group that has responded to your post probably has a couple hundred years of collective boating experience. We've given you the benefit of our hard earned experience. Do with it as you want. I will tell you this; whether you pass on this boat, or not, this group will try its best to help you with whatever Sea Ray you end up with.
 
jamus, I don't know if this is your first boat or not but the fact that you fell in love with it gives me an indication.

You have to ask yourself one BIG question: Are you looking to buy a boat you can take your friends out on this summer, or are you buying a boat that likely will be tied up in expensive repairs for the first year or so and that you don't get to use.

If your answer to that question is the first option; buying a boat to use, then run like hell from this boat. Go find one you can use and have fun with, not just spend the first year writing checks for repairs.
 
Let me correct a misconception with your logic right about now............if the core is already spongy, then it is wet. A wet core only gets worse as its begins to rot. This is not something you can put off and expect to get to at some pint in the future. If will get worse quickly to the point that the deck loses it structural integrity.

I'm in a large marina owned by a Sea Ray dealer in Florida and we see neglected hatches repaired frequently. I have never seen one get any easier or less expensive to repair by waiting. In fact, the boat becomes almost impossible to sell once the rot gets obvious.

Please do yourself a favor and take a dose of pragmatism and please don't try to wait.....either cut and run now or buy the boat and repair it so you can enjoy it without worrying about it.

And, thanks Henry.............


Frank
 
I have a question in light of this thread. I just completed a survey yesterday on a 2007 340DA. The surveyor discovered a similar issue, but on the swim platform. There are mounts on the platform to hold a Highfield CL310 Dinghy. Not sure who did the installation, but it didn't look like there was a lot of caulk around the mounts. Should I be concerned?
 

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I have a question in light of this thread. I just completed a survey yesterday on a 2007 340DA. The surveyor discovered a similar issue, but on the swim platform. There are mounts on the platform to hold a Highfield CL310 Dinghy. Not sure who did the installation, but it didn't look like there was a lot of caulk around the mounts. Should I be concerned?
If its a detachable platform, I would be less concerned. Platform is an easier fix -- can get from both under and over. Plus, many people cover the platform with faux teak and such, so surface matching is less of a problem.
 
If its a detachable platform, I would be less concerned. Platform is an easier fix -- can get from both under and over. Plus, many people cover the platform with faux teak and such, so surface matching is less of a problem.
This one is not - it's molded into the body of the 340.
 
This one is not - it's molded into the body of the 340.
Still could be an easier fix if you're willing to cover it with faux teak afterwords. Depends how bad it is, but should be stopped before it advances into the main structure.
 
I have a question in light of this thread. I just completed a survey yesterday on a 2007 340DA. The surveyor discovered a similar issue, but on the swim platform. There are mounts on the platform to hold a Highfield CL310 Dinghy. Not sure who did the installation, but it didn't look like there was a lot of caulk around the mounts. Should I be concerned?

Simple fix would be to drill into the coring and inject West Systems epoxy to drive the water out and solidify the core. When complete, SeaDek the platform.
 
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