The "virus" What are your thoughts

Henry Boyd said:

That argument works only to a certain point. Yesterday the market was tanked hours before it opened on the reaction from markets in Asia and Europe to the administration’s containment plans. No matter how you spin it, the President reversed course with his address. Going from it’s nots so bad, to time to close the borders.

The press by its very existence does have its own influence, but that’s human nature. Just look when bad weather be it a hurricane, or blizzard is forecasted.

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uh, he closed the boarder with China early on. And the haters pounded him for it.

Henry Boyd said:

That argument works only to a certain point. Yesterday the market was tanked hours before it opened on the reaction from markets in Asia and Europe to the administration’s containment plans. No matter how you spin it, the President reversed course with his address. Going from it’s nots so bad, to time to close the borders.

The press by its very existence does have its own influence, but that’s human nature. Just look when bad weather be it a hurricane, or blizzard is forecasted.

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I don't completely agree with the premise that "the President reversed course...." is the reason as you seem to illude for the market downturn. I believe his change in status is an incidental component of the market downturn but rather in a bigger sense that many other international factors such as overseas manufacturing and transportation especially in China are the principal contributors. Compound it all with the tit for tat between President Putin and OPEC and the drop in the oil market you must admit there are larger factors driving the market. The press on the other hand is the root of all evil in today's society; their blurring of editorial/opinion and news is criminal; this in not "human nature" but rather intentional malice.

b_arrington said:

I don't understand why Trump is still blaming Obama for stuff. Well I do, but it seems unreasonable to still blame Obama 3 years into Trump's term.

The specific example is that Trump is blaming Obama for the supposedly poor state of the CDC due to "decades" of neglect and a red tape "Obama-rule" that has been hampering the testing process.

Obama wasn't in office for decades. The specific rule wasn't mentioned. I mean, c'mon. Blaming Obama this far along into his term seems weak to me. He's been in office 3 years and and had both means an opportunity to change things at the CDC if there was a problem.

I don't know if what Trump's saying is correct - or not. That's part of the issue. I find so much of what he says to be not credible. In times of crisis it's so important for leadership to be credible. While a very limited view, the markets did NOT like what he said or how it made his in his evening address, witnessed by the fact they tumbled further the next morning.

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The problem is people are panicking. When they buy TP likes it will never be made again, it's a panic. If the President comes out and says "we are all going to die" what's going to happen. To my mind, they are taking prudent steps to control the spread and trying to prevent panic. I don't think cancelling sporting events was a good idea when you can play without fans and reasonably monitor the teams and the staff. That fuels the panic.

The biggest issue is testing and the CDC and FDA massively screwed that up like most government bureaucracies do. To many rules and procedures. Taking too long to get the private testing companies approved. Good news is all that seems to be past us and by next week test should be readily available.

b_arrington said:

I don't understand why Trump is still blaming Obama for stuff. Well I do, but it seems unreasonable to still blame Obama 3 years into Trump's term.

The specific example is that Trump is blaming Obama for the supposedly poor state of the CDC due to "decades" of neglect and a red tape "Obama-rule" that has been hampering the testing process.

Obama wasn't in office for decades. The specific rule wasn't mentioned. I mean, c'mon. Blaming Obama this far along into his term seems weak to me. He's been in office 3 years and and had both means an opportunity to change things at the CDC if there was a problem.

I don't know if what Trump's saying is correct - or not. That's part of the issue. I find so much of what he says to be not credible. In times of crisis it's so important for leadership to be credible. While a very limited view, the markets did NOT like what he said or how it made his in his evening address, witnessed by the fact they tumbled further the next morning.

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Blaming the past administration is nothing new. President Obama blamed President Bush for many things for years. Seems to come with the territory.

President Trump is under such a microscope with the media - his every word is analyzed... nothing he says is positive according to the media.

The coronavirus situation and the recent VA troubles are harbingers for what we'll experience if we ever have nationalized healthcare. A healthcare system at least somewhat driven by profit motives (as ours is) will always, IMO, be better than one driven by bureaucrats.

Steve S said:

Blaming the past administration is nothing new. President Obama blamed President Bush for many things for years. Seems to come with the territory.

President Trump is under such a microscope with the media - his every word is analyzed... nothing he says is positive according to the media.

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Agreed, there always is a blame game. But still - doing so doesn't exactly project either strength or confidence in a turbulent situation regardless of who's doing the blaming. At some point the person in charge has to own it. Or at least just fix things without saying it's the other guy's fault.

The governor of WV just closed all public schools... and we have yet to have the first case of COVID-19 reported in WV. Covering his a$$ I recon.

I don't see that Trump reversed course. This situation is so dynamic I see it as another re-assuring next step taken....a proactive step....as opposed to that of Italy for example.

Trump to Declare National Emergency to Speed Virus Response

President Donald Trump plans to declare a national emergency on Friday over the coronavirus outbreak, invoking the Stafford Act to open the door to more federal aid for states and municipalities.

Press conference 3pm

b_arrington said:

Agreed, there always is a blame game. But still - doing so doesn't exactly project either strength or confidence in a turbulent situation regardless of who's doing the blaming. At some point the person in charge has to own it. Or at least just fix things without saying it's the other guy's fault.

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Brad,

I agree that it doesn't project the correct image in this turbulent time. Just pointing out that the "blame game" has been going on in politics forever... President Trump didn't start it and it isn't unusual...

b_arrington said:

I don't understand why Trump is still blaming Obama for stuff. Well I do, but it seems unreasonable to still blame Obama 3 years into Trump's term.

The specific example is that Trump is blaming Obama for the supposedly poor state of the CDC due to "decades" of neglect and a red tape "Obama-rule" that has been hampering the testing process.

Obama wasn't in office for decades. The specific rule wasn't mentioned. I mean, c'mon. Blaming Obama this far along into his term seems weak to me. He's been in office 3 years and and had both means an opportunity to change things at the CDC if there was a problem.

I don't know if what Trump's saying is correct - or not. That's part of the issue. I find so much of what he says to be not credible. In times of crisis it's so important for leadership to be credible. While a very limited view, the markets did NOT like what he said or how it made his in his evening address, witnessed by the fact they tumbled further the next morning.

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Trump just wants to blame someone else for his failures, all he keeps repeating is how good his approval rating is.....STFU and do your job and run the country best you can, and for gods sake, stop patting yourself on the back already...….

Third Edition said:

The coronavirus situation and the recent VA troubles are harbingers for what we'll experience if we ever have nationalized healthcare. A healthcare system at least somewhat driven by profit motives (as ours is) will always, IMO, be better than one driven by bureaucrats.

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Yep. Part of the problem with testing was caused by the Fed. government. All tests had to the thru state's public health system. And test had to be run twice. Private testing companies have been delayed getting tests on the market waiting for FDA approval. As of now, something like 10 of 14 have finally be approved.

"Billionaire Jack Ma, China’s richest man and founder of e-commerce giant Alibaba, is lending a hand to the United States by donating 500,000 coronavirus testing kits and one million masks."

Blueone said:

There is a junior and a senior mtce guy.. The senior is the only one allowed to drive the golf cart... the junior does all the work...

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Must be union

Golfman25 said:

uh, he closed the boarder with China early on. And the haters pounded him for it.

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Your point? I was talking about the response to the President’s speech by global stock markets. An economic, not political, response to the administration’s plans. Up until recently the President has been quick to point out the positive growth in the stock market is largely due to his administration’s efforts, so classifying the global markets as “haters” is hardly accurate.

Henry Boyd said:

Your point? I was talking about the response to the President’s speech by global stock markets. An economic, not political, response to the administration’s plans. Up until recently the President has been quick to point out the positive growth in the stock market is largely due to his administration’s efforts, so classifying the global markets as “haters” is hardly accurate.

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I was responding to your comments regarding containment and reversing course. He didn't do that as he's been containing since the outset.

ttmott said:

I don't completely agree with the premise that "the President reversed course...." is the reason as you seem to illude for the market downturn. I believe his change in status is an incidental component of the market downturn but rather in a bigger sense that many other international factors such as overseas manufacturing and transportation especially in China are the principal contributors. Compound it all with the tit for tat between President Putin and OPEC and the drop in the oil market you must admit there are larger factors driving the market. The press on the other hand is the root of all evil in today's society; their blurring of editorial/opinion and news is criminal; this in not "human nature" but rather intentional malice.

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Perhaps, I could have used a better description. Certainly you’ll admit the message from the administration has been contradictory with the President saying testing is going fine, and that anyone who wants a test can get one, when in reality testing is not fine. In fact, Dr. Fauci described it as a “fail”. As of today I believe less than 1500 tests have been performed. How can anyone realistically believe that a million tests can be conducted at this rate?

In any event, the reception outside of the US has certainly been that the US is unprepared. The title of the lead story from today’s online edition of The Economist;
Covid-19 is spreading rapidly in America. The country does not look ready
Sorry formatting was result of cut and paste. The article goes into detail with the big points seeming to be the politization on both sides and the bumbling of the administration’s handling of testing. It leads me to conclude this perception coming on the heels of the President’s address helped fuel the historical drop in the financial markets.

Henry Boyd said:

As of today I believe less than 1500 tests have been performed.

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It's more than that... maybe your'e just missing a zero. "As of march 9th, 8,554 tests have been performed in the US" (source: CDC website). So by now, it's closer to 15,000.

I think if you go back to the beginning of this thread, I gave my opinion of HHS and DHHS. Unfortunately, they have not proven me wrong.

You can assess the level of competence in that department, yourself.

Though, I see this thread has become political, and I want to be clear about something. You can not point the finger at any specific party. If it makes you feel good to blame Trump or Obama, so be it, but the issue is with the career civil servants that make it through every four years and become more and more complacent.

The guidance and the testing issue weren't created in this administration. It's been handed down and presumed preparedness over many political cycles. We would likely have had similar shortcomings under Obama. (Though, perhaps he would have accepted tests from the international community). We need to come together to solve this problem. And @susanandlance , as much as you might not want to hear it, this waste and complacency (swamp) was exactly what Trump was talking about when he ran for office. I presume you are far from DC inner beltway, so good for you....But, respectfully, you don't understand. If we don't get together behind this President then we have no chance for change. We need to get united.

Now, if you take that to mean I'm happy with the Fed. response, that's not my message. Trump is an abysmal orator. Obama was a great orator and a smooth talker. Would I prefer Obama right now, not likely. Trump is taking action with the infrastructure he has.

If you remember, while he was campaigning and while in office, he has strived to bring manufacturing back to the US. @susanandlance - Do you disagree? This was one of the reasons. He recognizes it is a national security issue. As is controlling our borders. Foreign nations have courted our leaders and businesses away and made us vulnerable. Why do you think there is guidance from CDC not to wear masks, because they aren't effective in helping protect you? Hell no....If we had the masks for our population, we would be making it mandatory like other countries with supplies. We don't have the manufacturing in this country to deal with this timely. The countries without supplies are the only ones giving the guidance because they need them for clinicians and other responders. Basically, you're low on the list. I'm not arguing the point. it's fact. (Further, interesting side point, clinicians in hospitals in several states have said some of their masks have been stolen)

So, this is where we are - A Fed. gov't, with all the tax payers money over decades and decades to fund these administrations (HHS) and prepare, fail at the basic level of pandemic. TESTING. It's a fail. I mean seriously, did they honestly think a procedure where all test have to go to them was going to work? They have no capacity at the scale of a pandemic and they've known it.

If we don't have testing and surveillance, then we don't have the data to contain. If we don't contain, we see exponential growth and our systems will become overloaded. That's why you see every Gov. and every leader cancelling everything. They just presume cases and know we are no different than any other nation. Contrary to Trump saying our system is the greatest, talk to nurses and docs. in the hospitals and get back to me....Also, ask them how many ventilators the have. Now, these measures will help flatten the curve, but it might just be temporary.

So, what to do.

1. Do not accept the failure out of the Feds., Testing - Fail; Masks - Fail;but do not blame Trump.
2. Listen to Dr. Fauci.

I wish Dr. Fauci was a decision maker and not simply in his role at NIH and a player in the task force. He does it well, but he would be my best candidate for directing this mess.

Man, I certainly hope we don't fail with vents; beds; and caregivers

I read one EMT saying people would try to steal drugs from her. Now they try to steal hand sanitizer.

In the end there is no one to blame. Only one's self.

I believe phone books r next, since it seems the country out of toilet paper.
They should have handed out brown paper bags for people to breath into and
Calm down. Then they could wipe their
Ass with it.
This is crazy!