Rotted floor/stringers on 1999 370. Help!

SkiPharmer

Active Member
Jul 27, 2014
282
St. Croix River, MN
Boat Info
2001 Formula 41 Performance Cruiser
Engines
Twin 8.2. Liter Mercruisers Direct Drives
I posting this on behalf of a friend of mine. He bought a 1999 370 Sundancer this past summer. Survey showed that one of the stringers inside the cabin in the mid bilge had rot. So bad you could poke your finger through it. When I saw/heard this I thought it was a bizarre place for rot, especially since the boat and bilge was spotless. He bought from via broker from Marine Max. He had the local marina that it was at givr him an estimate for repair..$4000. The seller took that off the price and the sale continued. he now keeps the boat at my marina (different marina that gave the first estimate)and is going to have them do the work. They pulled it into the shop this week and uncovered much more rot. The floor under the aft cabin is rotted and there is white mold growing all underneath there. My buddy is devastated. They are now thinking $10,000-$20,000 to repair depending on what they keep peeling back. The shop says the stringers involved are holding the floor up and are not involved with the engine. Attached are a few pics. The water you see is coming out of the wood as it thaws (we are in MN). What would you do? What can he do? They think the boat either sunk or somehow got water in and it never drained. The bilge looked great cause it was discovered that they repainted it. You can see how they painted over it, covering water stains? This was discovered by my marina. Sad case. Gorgeous boat otherwise. Thanks!
 

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You will get a lot of feedback I am sure. The stringers midships may not hold the engines, but they are the entire structure for the hull. That cost estimate may actually be low. Cruisers are very hard to completely rebuild stringers. One of the CSR members here did a full rebuild of stringers and transom on his 268 I think. So he may have some idea of his costs. This may be a situation of cutting losses, depending on what he paid for the boat. Not good.
 
First I think I might throw up - after that I don't know what he could do, you almost certainly have to fix it, no way to sell it at this point, at least not for any real $$. Obviously the survey missed this, or at least missed the extent of the rot. Have a conversation with Marine Max, maybe they can help with fixing it. You can bet the previous owner knew about it and that is why he got rid of it - you wonder if Marina Max knew how bad it is.

Some how fix it and enjoy the boat or take an unbelievable hit on selling it.
 
Chances are very good, the cost to repair will exceed the value of the boat. If that is the case then the unfortunate truth is that he is going to have to walk away with whatever he can get from salvage.

It does look like there may have been some fraud but I am not equipped to advise on any legal recourse. A lawyer might be in his future but do not discuss the particulars of that on an open forum, at least until after the matter is settled.
 
I posting this on behalf of a friend of mine. He bought a 1999 370 Sundancer this past summer. Survey showed that one of the stringers inside the cabin in the mid bilge had rot. So bad you could poke your finger through it. When I saw/heard this I thought it was a bizarre place for rot, especially since the boat and bilge was spotless. He bought from via broker from Marine Max. He had the local marina that it was at givr him an estimate for repair..$4000. The seller took that off the price and the sale continued. he now keeps the boat at my marina (different marina that gave the first estimate)and is going to have them do the work. They pulled it into the shop this week and uncovered much more rot. The floor under the aft cabin is rotted and there is white mold growing all underneath there. My buddy is devastated. They are now thinking $10,000-$20,000 to repair depending on what they keep peeling back. The shop says the stringers involved are holding the floor up and are not involved with the engine. Attached are a few pics. The water you see is coming out of the wood as it thaws (we are in MN). What would you do? What can he do? They think the boat either sunk or somehow got water in and it never drained. The bilge looked great cause it was discovered that they repainted it. You can see how they painted over it, covering water stains? This was discovered by my marina. Sad case. Gorgeous boat otherwise. Thanks!

Make sure they are not calling the white foam under the floor in the mid cabin mold. I discovered the hard way what a leaking ice maker line can do over a period of years, where it was leaking between the outer hull and the inner hull, which feeds to...... the floor under the mid cabin, which is normally filled with flotation foam from the engine bulkhead to the keel to the front bulkhead. I discovered mine when unscrewing the water heater under the aft settee, and had a 3 inch head of water coming out of the screw holes. Took a while to figure out the the water was coming from such a large and non-accessible space.
I wound up removing the mid cabin table leg mount, and cut a hole to the keel through the foam. Vacuumed out water for days. It also rotted the cockpit flooring in the coaming lockers behind the ice maker where Sea Ray had neglected to completely wrap the plywood with fiberglass. I cut all that out, and replaced with 3/4 marine ply SATURATED with resin and glass mat. I then ripped all the carpeting out of those coaming lockers, and painted the entire space with bilge paint. no more standing water, no more mold, no more rot.
 
Make sure they are not calling the white foam under the floor in the mid cabin mold. I discovered the hard way what a leaking ice maker line can do over a period of years, where it was leaking between the outer hull and the inner hull, which feeds to...... the floor under the mid cabin, which is normally filled with flotation foam from the engine bulkhead to the keel to the front bulkhead. I discovered mine when unscrewing the water heater under the aft settee, and had a 3 inch head of water coming out of the screw holes. Took a while to figure out the the water was coming from such a large and non-accessible space.
I wound up removing the mid cabin table leg mount, and cut a hole to the keel through the foam. Vacuumed out water for days. It also rotted the cockpit flooring in the coaming lockers behind the ice maker where Sea Ray had neglected to completely wrap the plywood with fiberglass. I cut all that out, and replaced with 3/4 marine ply SATURATED with resin and glass mat. I then ripped all the carpeting out of those coaming lockers, and painted the entire space with bilge paint. no more standing water, no more mold, no more rot.
Did you have stringer involvement?
 
Could the source be the fresh water tank leak? Not familiar with the location on the 370.
 
after peeling back all the rot, do you know where the water is coming from?
I have a 1996 370DA and mine has water in the same area and I can't seem to find where its coming from. no rot (yet). looks like i need to get this fixed before it rots!
 
I would certainly have your buddy contact the surveyor and possibly make a claim on his errors and omissions insurance if he has it. That is certainly a major problem to have missed.
 
Did you have stringer involvement?
No stringer stuff. I did have a Chris Craft 28 flybridge once upon a time that was from Canada. Apparently the way it was dry stored in the winter allowed fresh water in the forward bilge, and did rot the stringers on that one. I took a month, and we "sistered" new stringers into the boat, front to back. It worked out pretty well, and the new owner had her for many years, with no nasty phone calls.
If you have stringer failure, you need to locate the spot where a hole was drilled without sealing, and then water intruded to saturate that spot. I cannot tell from your photos where your damage actually is.
 
Could the source be the fresh water tank leak? Not familiar with the location on the 370.
The water tank is under the forward Vee berth. It could leak into the mid bilge via the holes cut for the air conditioner hoses. I think there would be a lot of wet carpet before it damaged the mid bilge.
 
It’s a total loss. Make sure it’s insured then sink it.

“Where there’s smoke there’s fire.”

Where there’s one rotten stringer...
 
I have dealt with hidden rot, although on a much smaller boat (24ft).

It is amazing how water can wick through plywood to the other side of the boat. You can bet the farm that rotten wood permeates that boat in all directions.

Considering the money involved with that type of purchase, I would go ahead and consult with an attorney. If no legal options were available, sell it as a project boat and cut losses.
 
It’s a total loss. Make sure it’s insured then sink it.

“Where there’s smoke there’s fire.”

Where there’s one rotten stringer...

Captain,

I realize you are only joking about the insurance thing... :) ....but, even if someone was planning a nefarious scheme like that (sinking, burning, theft, etc), insurance companies would require a survey prior to coverage. Oh well...Plan B?

BTW...I completely agree on the total loss issue. Buying used boats is such a pain in the arse for “non-wealthy” people like me that really love boating. We always end up getting someone else’s rubbish. I am very frustrated that some schmuck out there sold his boat knowing it was trashed and knowing some poor soul would buy it not knowing it was trashed.

Ski, please make sure your bud understands I feel his pain. Probably all of us do. I have been in his position before on a lesser scale and it feels terrible. Took me 12 years to repair the rotted boat. Remind him that a pleasure boat will never be a good financial investment - it will always cost lots of money. Sometimes a lot up front and sometimes a lot over a long time. In his case, the expense is coming up front.
 
I get the "total loss" thing.......but this guy likely paid 50-60k for this boat - what if he blew an engine on the first cruise? sink it? No, put a new 10k (likely more) motor in it and move on......same thing here - fix it right and move on - as he is finding out, problems like this get more involved as you dig, but I assure you, there is an end - and its not "every piece of wood in the boat" I know its too late, but the BIG mistake here was accepting the boat in the first place - plenty of used boats for sale - it seems people get "vested" in a boat after paying for a survey. As for the repainted bilge, its common to freshen up the paint on an older boat so it shows better - that doesn't necessarily prove any ill intent on the part of the PO.
 
I would certainly have your buddy contact the surveyor and possibly make a claim on his errors and omissions insurance if he has it. That is certainly a major problem to have missed.
Per the OP the surveyor found the rot. Guy should have had the seller fix before purchase.
 
I get the "total loss" thing.......but this guy likely paid 50-60k for this boat - what if he blew an engine on the first cruise? sink it? No, put a new 10k (likely more) motor in it and move on......same thing here - fix it right and move on - as he is finding out, problems like this get more involved as you dig, but I assure you, there is an end - and its not "every piece of wood in the boat" I know its too late, but the BIG mistake here was accepting the boat in the first place - plenty of used boats for sale - it seems people get "vested" in a boat after paying for a survey. As for the repainted bilge, its common to freshen up the paint on an older boat so it shows better - that doesn't necessarily prove any ill intent on the part of the PO.
He paid $81,000...the seller than took $4000 off to fix it
 
He paid $81,000...the seller than took $4000 off to fix it

Like BillK, my first reaction would probably be to throw up.
Next, if it’s an otherwise good boat, I would have to figure out a way to get it fixed properly and then plan on holding on to the boat for a while to make it worth it.
If the rest of the boat isn’t too good I would try to figure out how to cut my losses.
Occasionally we’ll see someone post on here about a boat they are thinking of buying where a surveyor or other knowledgeable source points out repairs that the boat needs.
The poster will often add that the seller is willing to take money off of the sale price for the buyer to get the things fixed or replaced.
IMHO: The most sound advice that the poster gets is to have the seller make the repairs as a condition of sale because everything usually costs way more than they think it will.
While it kind of sucks for your friend, hopefully this thread will save the next potential buyer nightmare.
 
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I get the "total loss" thing.......but this guy likely paid 50-60k for this boat - what if he blew an engine on the first cruise? sink it? No, put a new 10k (likely more) motor in it and move on......same thing here - fix it right and move on - as he is finding out, problems like this get more involved as you dig, but I assure you, there is an end - and its not "every piece of wood in the boat" I know its too late, but the BIG mistake here was accepting the boat in the first place - plenty of used boats for sale - it seems people get "vested" in a boat after paying for a survey. As for the repainted bilge, its common to freshen up the paint on an older boat so it shows better - that doesn't necessarily prove any ill intent on the part of the PO.

I can agree with you recommending fixing the boat, if the new owner can do a lot of the work himself. That is what I did. Complete decks, engine room area, and total transom. It was a lot of labor. Materials weren’t off bad. If I had to pay someone, it would have been foolish of me to do so. The labor alone would have been twice the value of the boat.

When I said “total loss” I guess I should have stated it differently. If he will have to pay an extreme amount of labor and material to have all the fiberglass work, it would likely be better to sell it as a salvage or to someone looking for a project. He can recoup some of his purchase price, combine that with what he would have paid on labor, and find a good boat. I speak from personal experience here. If they are digging sections of the walls from that boat, there is likely going to be rot, lots of rot. That is labor cost. Lots of labor cost.
I get the "total loss" thing.......but this guy likely paid 50-60k for this boat - what if he blew an engine on the first cruise? sink it? No, put a new 10k (likely more) motor in it and move on......same thing here - fix it right and move on - as he is finding out, problems like this get more involved as you dig, but I assure you, there is an end - and its not "every piece of wood in the boat" I know its too late, but the BIG mistake here was accepting the boat in the first place - plenty of used boats for sale - it seems people get "vested" in a boat after paying for a survey. As for the repainted bilge, its common to freshen up the paint on an older boat so it shows better - that doesn't necessarily prove any ill intent on the part of the PO.

Good point. I will condition my “Total Loss” comment to insurance company terminology. If a person with the time, tools, and skill wanted to redo all the fiberglass in the boat, it would be possible. If, however, a person had to pay labor and materials, probably not advisable.

I have seen rotten wood like that in two different boats. By the time the wood got as bad as the picture shows, it was real bad all over.

As far as my schmuck comment, I guess 27 years as a cop has degraded my view of humanity a little! I hope you are right about the seller.
 
The first estimate of $4000 to fix a stringer was incorrect. The second estimate of $10k-$20k to repair will prove incorrect again IMO.

Ive seen estimates for stringer, mounts, deck, or transom rot combinations that start at $30k and up as high as $75k.

When total cost exceeds the value insurance appraisals deem the vehicle as a total loss. I assumed the owner had insurance.
 

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